So....cav outside time limit but race organisers let him stay in TDF

[hrotha]

Seriously, this thread is ridiculous. Cav is probably the only guy in that gruppetto who actually was punished for failing to meet the time limit. It'd be interesting to have a discussion about the time limit itself, how to enforce it, what justifies increasing the time limit, what to do with big groups of riders above the time limit and what kind of penalties would be appropriate for those who couldn't care less about the jerseys (eliminating the bottom 20% of the stage classification regardless, applying team-wide penalties, removing all points in all classifications, losing prize money, whatever).

But if this is just another "bash Cav" thread, it's pointless and stupid.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

i have always had an issue with time-cut rules, especially when they decided to tighten them this year. i think it's b0llocks.

What would you suggest? It's a fine balance. You can't keep several thousand riders, officials, team helpers, media people, etc. waiting all day at the top of mountain waiting for the bus. And you can't throw out half of the Tour's riders in one go. I think the rules are about right, but I thought today's time was too tight for a brute of a stage.

 

[El Pistolero]

Seriously, this thread is ridiculous. Cav is probably the only guy in that gruppetto who actually was punished for failing to meet the time limit. It'd be interesting to have a discussion about the time limit itself, how to enforce it, what justifies increasing the time limit, what to do with big groups of riders above the time limit and what kind of penalties would be appropriate for those who couldn't care less about the jerseys (eliminating the bottom 20% of the stage classification regardless, applying team-wide penalties, removing all points in all classifications, losing prize money, whatever).

But if this is just another "bash Cav" thread, it's pointless and stupid.

The rules are ridiculous. All of them should be thrown out, no exceptions. Unless something weird happened and they lost time because of that, no exceptions should be made. They're not good enough to be in the Tour.

Now all the sprinter teams can gang up to make sure they're never thrown out. That's ridiculous!

 

[Jamsque]

They missed the time limit by two minutes? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, if we would be always strict with time limits, 2006 Tour would have five riders left after Stage 13: Oscar Pereiro, Jens Voigt, Manuel Quinziato, Sylvain Chavanel and Andrey Grivko.

Would have made for a more interesting race than this year's Tour, that's for sure.

 

[El Pistolero]

They missed the time limit by two minutes? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

Even if it was one second, time limit is time limit. Or at least make them lose one point per second they're over the time limit. That's 120 points then. Although 45 points is more then enough for me.

 

[L29205]

Overall I don't mind the rule of 20% it allows for unforeseen events that the normal classification of the time rules cannot take into account. I however think the loss should be double the points for that the stage winner receives. That way there would be more incentive to make it in the minimum time.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

The rules are ridiculous. All of them should be thrown out, no exceptions. Unless something weird happened and they lost time because of that, no exceptions should be made. They're not good enough to be in the Tour.

Now all the sprinter teams can gang up to make sure they're never thrown out. That's ridiculous!

As pointed out though, as referenced with the 2006 stage, you could end up with just a handful of riders left in the race. And today, you'd have some of the world's greatest and most entertaining riders on their way home. As a cycling fan, don't you want to see them in action?

 

[maltiv]

Many of the guys in the grupetto could have climbed faster no doubt but they knew that such a big group would not get thrown out.

 

[El Pistolero]

As pointed out though, as referenced with the 2006 stage, you could end up with just a handful of riders left in the race. And today, you'd have some of the world's greatest and most entertaining riders on their way home. As a cycling fan, don't you want to see them in action?

No, not really. Most of the names won't provide for action anyway.

Of course exceptions should be made like in 2006. But this is hardly the same case. Besides if the teams knew they'd get kicked out no matter what, then they'd have raced harder. And the group wouldn't have been as big as now.

 

[indurain666]

Only shows how dirty ASO really is.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

No, not really. Most of the names won't provide for action anyway.

Of course exceptions should be made like in 2006. But this is hardly the same case. Besides if the teams knew they'd get kicked out no matter what, then they'd have raced harder. And the group wouldn't have been as big as now.

I don't remember, in the history of the internet, a post with so much nonsense and self-contradictions, as this one.

 

[Mambo95]

The rules are ridiculous. All of them should be thrown out, no exceptions. Unless something weird happened and they lost time because of that, no exceptions should be made. They're not good enough to be in the Tour.

Now all the sprinter teams can gang up to make sure they're never thrown out. That's ridiculous!

It's not just sprinters who were in that group. So were some of the most attacking riders of this Tour - Gilbert, Hushovd, Roy, EBH, Casar, Sanchez.

Who you prefer that they had saved their energy sitting in the peloton so they could ride two minutes quicker a mountain?

Would you like to see the TT with no Cancellara, Martin or Millar? A sprint in Paris with no sprinters?

Would you like to see Rojas and others miss the cut tomorrow and get eliminated because they've only got two teammates to help them?

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't remember, in the history of the internet, a post with so much nonsense and self-contradictions, as this one.

The only reason why you're against it is because you like Cav. The only reason why I'm saying it is because I like people to get throw out no matter who it is. Small peloton >>> big peloton= more action, less controlled racing, less crashes, more fun, no losers like Cav.

 

[thirteen]

What would you suggest? It's a fine balance. You can't keep several thousand riders, officials, team helpers, media people, etc. waiting all day at the top of mountain waiting for the bus. And you can't throw out half of the Tour's riders in one go. I think the rules are about right, but I thought today's time was too tight for a brute of a stage.

hrotha is right and we should open a new thread to discuss time-cuts, rather than leave this open to Cav bashing (which was not why i joined in).

since you ask, yes. i would like to them to throw out all 88 (is that right?) riders out just to show how absurd the tightening of the time-cut rules are. see what type of a sprint and parade they'd have on the Champs then!

i understand the need to have one in the first place, i'd just like to have rules that are a little more realistic.

you say today's stage was a brute. yeah, well if anybody had bothered to attack rather than watching their rivals' rear ends, there could have been several more brutish stages.

the time-cut rules need to be changed. and then they need to be adhered to 100%.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's not just sprinters who were in that group. So were some of the most attacking riders of this Tour - Gilbert, Hushovd, Roy, EBH, Casar, Sanchez.

Who you prefer that they had saved their energy sitting in the peloton so they could ride two minutes quicker a mountain?

Would you like to see the TT with no Cancellara, Martin or Millar? A sprint in Paris with no sprinters?

Would you like to see Rojas and others miss the cut tomorrow and get eliminated because they've only got two teammates to help them?

If they don't make it, they should be thrown out, that simple. I wouldn't mind a time trial without Canc, at least it will be unpredictable then. Same goes for the sprint in Paris. Besides Phil would easily have made the time cut as well as many other, but they knew they'd be allowed to start, so they didn't bother with it.

Rojas won't get eliminated because he has great form.

 

[spalco]

For ****'s sake, this has always been done that way. How the hell is there even any debate? Kicking out 80 riders for being 2 minutes late is complete nonsense.

 

[Mambo95]

Rojas won't get eliminated because he has great form.

He only made it by 1.30 today. He wouldn't make it tomorrow without help from some of those 89 riders.

 

[El Pistolero]

For ****'s sake, this has always been done that way. How the hell is there even any debate? Kicking out 80 riders for being 2 minutes late is complete nonsense.

It's been done before(driedaagse de panne). Remember the world championship last year by the way?

 

[El Pistolero]

He only made it by 1.30 today. He wouldn't make it tomorrow without help from some of those 89 riders.

Then they should review the time cut system and allow them some more time. But if you fail to meet the time cut, you should always be thrown out imo. Unless there's valid reason not to(like hitting a cow or something)

 

[thirteen]

It's been done before(driedaagse de panne). Remember the world championship last year by the way?

which is how it should be.

and, as in this case, rules that are seen to be ridiculous, they should be changed.

 

[K-0tic]

If they don't make it, they should be thrown out, that simple. I wouldn't mind a time trial without Canc, at least it will be unpredictable then. Same goes for the sprint in Paris. Besides Phil would easily have made the time cut as well as many other, but they knew they'd be allowed to start, so they didn't bother with it.

Rojas won't get eliminated because he has great form.

The point with this whole rule is that it is being abused right now. Let's just stay with 70 riders in the back , relax and suffer less and on saturday we might be better for the TT or the stage on sunday and top while the GC contenders rode on 100% and have to suffer for their performance in the mountains.

The rule has been designed in unfortunate cases in which the peloton made a stupid mistake to let some group get away and couldn't retrieve them anymore, it has not been designed for this poor abuse.

So I fully agree with you: Throw them out, all of them. TdF isn't for relaxing, it's for competitive cycling.

 

[MartinGT]

According to CN he finished outside the group. I guess he should have hung on to his team car a little more.

OMG

He finished in the bus with 70% of the riders, you want them all out too?

****

 

[SirLes]

No need to look at the "what's your occupation" thread to work out what jobs some posters must have!

 

[mewmewmew13]

So I don't wish to dredge through the last few pages of posts, and forgive me if this is redundant, but I thought the rule was if a certain percentage of riders actually finished outside the time limits that they do not get thrown out??

..and it doesn't seem to have much to do with Cav regarding the decisions..it is a review of the arbiters...