So....cav outside time limit but race organisers let him stay in TDF

[patterson_hood]

The answer is Cipo was even better than Cav.

You'd know if you saw his last victory at G-W That's called a phenomenon.

You're entitled to you're opinion, But I'm afraid I won't agree with you. And I'm still waiting to know why Rojas can't win easy sprints but Cav wins about 80% of any he is involved in.

 

[El Pistolero]

You're entitled to you're opinion, But I'm afraid I won't agree with you. And I'm still waiting to know why Rojas can't win easy sprints but Cav wins about 80% of any he is involved in.

Because he doesn't have the top speed. But he climbs better and was up there in many hilly stages for points when Cav was sitting in the gruppeto getting a tow from a car or what ever he does there.

 

[thirteen]

The answer is Cipo was even better than Cav.

You'd know if you saw his last victory at G-W That's called a phenomenon.

this thread has totally derailed, but...

Cipo was definitely better than Cav, no ifs ands or buts

 

[lanternrouge]

The answer is Cipo was even better than Cav.

You'd know if you saw his last victory at G-W That's called a phenomenon.

This may well prove to correct but Cav's career has not finished yet. How can Cipo be a phenomenon if a sprinter like that comes along every generation?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

For a man who was never invited to the TdF, Cipo took part in an awful lot of them - 6 in total. For the record, he won 12 stages.

 

[El Pistolero]

This may well prove to correct but Cav's career has not finished yet. How can Cipo be a phenomenon if a sprinter like that comes along every generation?

Because I never saw someone driving from one echelon to another. Never have I seen it again. That's why he was a phenomenon. He was more than just a sprinter.

 

[El Pistolero]

For a man who was never invited to the TdF, Cipo took part in an awful lot of them - 6 in total. For the record, he won 12 stages.

Wasn't allowed for 2000-2003. His best years... That's 4 GTs and god knows how many stage wins

 

[hatcher]

Is it still not about singling out Cav?

 

[Mambo95]

Being able to win a stage doesn't make it hard. All Cav does is ride at the front for 200 meters. At most.

If you'd ask me who has the best track record at the Tour; Cav or Thor. I'd say Thor by a mile.

And who's track record at the Tour is better - Cavendish or Rojas?

Seriously, what has Rojas done of note in this Tour?

He's a journeyman sprinter who has only won six races in his entire career.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Because I never saw someone driving from one echelon to another. Never have I seen it again. That's why he was a phenomenon. He was more than just a sprinter.

Of course it's subjective (although I imagine you'd never bring yourself to consider Cav as being superior to Cipo) as to who's greater, but 2 things are pretty much inarguable - the TdF has never seen a sprinter gain as much success as Cavendish in such a short space of time and, secondly, if he carries on winning races at the same rate, up to the point you'd expect a sprinter to start to decline, then he'll break every record in the book. I think we can all agree on those 2 things.

 

[SirLes]

Wasn't allowed for 2000-2003. His best years... That's 4 GTs and god knows how many stage wins

But only in the first week of course

So why didn't they invite him?

It was an awsome sight watching Cipo roar up the Champs Élysées year after year

 

[Bavarianrider]

I really think it's a mess. I mean if there are rules they have to be obeyd.
At least they should strip of the green jersey.

 

[patterson_hood]

I really think it's a mess. I mean if there are rules they have to be obeyd.
At least they should strip of the green jersey.

You should probably read the rules as well

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Wasn't allowed for 2000-2003. His best years... That's 4 GTs and god knows how many stage wins

Not really. In those 4 years he won 12 Giro stages. In the 4 previous years (which co-incided with those TdF appearances), he won 17 Giro stages. I realise he won his WC in those years, but if you compare those 2 periods as a whole, there isn't much to choose between them.

 

[hatcher]

I really think it's a mess. I mean if there are rules they have to be obeyd.
At least they should strip of the green jersey.

What punishment should Tony Martin get?

 

[Anonymous]

I really think it's a mess. I mean if there are rules they have to be obeyd.
At least they should strip of the green jersey.

and they did obey the rules, the 20% rule and the points deduction both of which are in the rulebook.

Do you really want to see 90 riders elimited three days from paris.

 

[spalco]

Ok, the rules are what they are and they have been obeyed in this case, that much has been stated repeatedly already.

But if the rule should be changed, my suggestion would be a literal decimation -> out of everybody who failed to make the time limit, 1/10th is eliminated by random draw.

That would also be completely arbitrary and unfair, but it would add a lot of excitement to the jersey ceremony after the stage. Throw the race numbers of all the riders into a pot and let Hinault pick out 10% of the number of riders who were late.

 

[Derrick]

Why are so many worried about 80 riders being eliminated. There are still 80 or so left and until comparatively recently this would have been the norm. Might make for some harder racing. This thread ties in with the one asking whether riders are bothered about the lower finishing places. Clearly not in the slightest. Is any one really bothered whether they finish 62nd or 73rd and because of this it's quite plain that if a rider has no particular function to perform, and in some cases even if they have, they are quite happy to drift off the back directly the racing starts even though it's perfectly obvious they could stay with the bunch if they were the least bit bothered. It's a totally cynical approach to racing but to them ,let's face it, it's just another day at work.

 

[Parrulo]

just saw an interview with cav on british eurosport.

when asked if he agreed with the decision to take away 20 points from him he just said "those are the rules" when the interviewer insisted clearly trying to make him say that it was unfair he just said very angrily "don't you know cycling? those are the rules!"

didn't seemed to bothered with that he was angry at the other guys in the grupetto that according spend the entire day watching him ride without doing any work.

 

[Mambo95]

Why are so many worried about 80 riders being eliminated. There are still 80 or so left and until comparatively recently this would have been the norm. Might make for some harder racing. This thread ties in with the one asking whether riders are bothered about the lower finishing places. Clearly not in the slightest. Is any one really bothered whether they finish 62nd or 73rd and because of this it's quite plain that if a rider has no particular function to perform, and in some cases even if they have, they are quite happy to drift off the back directly the racing starts even though it's perfectly obvious they could stay with the bunch if they were the least bit bothered. It's a totally cynical approach to racing but to them ,let's face it, it's just another day at work.

The bit in bold: I doubt it. The three stages to come - a mountain stage, a TT and a glorified criterium. Almost all the attacking riders from this Tour (Gilbert, Roy, Hushovd, EBH, Casar, Costa, Sanchez, Delage) where in that group. What you'd actually get is teams of two or three struggling to make the time the cut today (which would most likely get rid of another 20-30) and then limping into Paris.

What you would certainly get is less hard racing in the two days prior to the mountain stages, as riders conserve energy to ensure they will have more chance of making the cut. Almost all of the breakaway on stage 17 missed the cut. Do you want to penalize them for their efforts, for the sake of two minutes?

 

[Thomsena]

They haven't changed the rules in connection how to set the time limit since 1996... Tells it all..


Close thread.

 

[simoni]

This very rarely happens to this scale. I think it happened in the 1994 tour that had an extremely high attrition rate. As a spectator on the weekend it crossed from pyrenees to alps I can testify how unbelieveably hot it was!

If over half the field miss the cut then theres a problem with the rules, not the riders. Expecting the sprinters to lose within little more than 10 minutes of the climbers on each of thee HC climbs seems pretty tight to me. I think the right decision was made.

 

[saganftw]

If over half the field miss the cut then theres a problem with the rules, not the riders.

they missed timelimit not because they were goin 110%

but because they know if the grupetto is big enough they wont be kicked

imo every rider in that group should be punished financialy and in cavendish case (or any other jersey wearer) he should be stripped off the jersey,if you are not strong enough to finish within the time limit get the duck out of TdF

 

[Dead Star]

So....Rojas outside time limit but race organisers let him stay in TDF. OMG(!)

 

[Marva32]

Large group outside the time limit AGAIN. Now it is starting to seem like the riders are banding together to make the time limit worthless. I know it was only around 15 seconds, but 2 days in a row? PATHETIC