SRAM Haters

[fabramowski]

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=15258211

Did you read those links before you posted them??

Correct me if I've read the wrong bits, but the Campag one - apart from one guy going all poison dwarf and fixing the problem by changing from one gruppo to another that is 95% identical to the first one - is full of people giving the product 5 out of 5 ratings.

The Shimano one talks about a guys shifting problems that are fixed by changing the cable housing and seem to be primarily due to issues with an internally routed frame.

So the conclusions are: Campag is great and Shimano works best with other people's cables ... Tell me again how that supports your argument in favour of those two manufacturers being as bad as SRAM?

if you read my post I was trying to make a point that every company will have someone that has a problem with thier stuff at one point or another, hence the micorsoft/apple use. I just wounder how many people have the Sram problem because it's seems like there is only a handful of people who post over and over again. I can search google and find someone who has had a problem with any product no matter what....so I am sure thier are people out there who has used Sram since it was first introduced and have had no problems...

so google "broken campy/shimano lever" you get this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4445762760770371898#

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=15258211

 

[pedaling squares]

I just wounder how many people have the Sram problem because it's seems like there is only a handful of people who post over and over again.

True, but when it's a handful of guys who own bike shops or work as mechanics it sure says a lot. I've had no problems with SRAM Force, other than it is noisier and less precise than Ultegra. But I don't rely on my gruppo to earn my living. A pro team choosing to pay for Shimano instead of getting SRAM for free speaks volumes about product reliability.

 

[kiwirider]

so google "broken campy/shimano lever" you get this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4445762760770371898#

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=15258211

Did you really spend 30 minutes after your original post looking to add those two links??

Again, what's your message - a 15 year old 7400 model shifter doesn't work? Wow ... that's a reliability problem for you right there!

And someone who clearly can't maintain their bike ("too stiff front derailleur") breaks bits ... but, hey, at least 'cos it's Campag you can get the spare part you need and just change that ... rather than having to send the whole lever back ...

You really should give up on this lone crusade - unless your performance bonus for the year requires you to make a certain number of posts and you're running a bit short ...

 

[fabramowski]

Did you really spend 30 minutes after your original post looking to add those two links??

Again, what's your message - a 15 year old 7400 model shifter doesn't work? Wow ... that's a reliability problem for you right there!

And someone who clearly can't maintain their bike ("too stiff front derailleur") breaks bits ... but, hey, at least 'cos it's Campag you can get the spare part you need and just change that ... rather than having to send the whole lever back ...

You really should give up on this lone crusade - unless your performance bonus for the year requires you to make a certain number of posts and you're running a bit short ...

1. nope, about 3 min. I do have to work.

2. no, just pointing out that every consumer product will have a bad egg here and there.

3. I know, Like I said in my previous post "arguing on the internet is like arguing who the smartest *** is." I do own all 3 groups though and I like them all and have had very few problems with them, set up wise. Just because some one else has had problems doesn't mean we all have had them..

 

[veganrob]

The little frog or whatever looks cool. Sram Red. Sram Red/Black. Great marketing dept. Great customer service dept. They have to be. Their product is so much inferior.
Campy still the best.
Can't understand why you can't set it up properly. Hmm

 

[Notso Swift]

I think the switch has to do more with sponsor dollars then anything else since Garmin-Cervelo lost a big sponsor as seem here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/garmin-moves-on-after-bigmat-sponsorship-deal-collapses

That doesn't fly, Red is cheaper than DA, further their race bikes are going to be DI2, so it is WAY cheaper than that.

Since SRAM was a sponsor it is a double turn around on dollars. Now if you were to say it was a political decision based on a spat with SRAM, then I could come at that

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

1. nope, about 3 min. I do have to work.

2. no, just pointing out that every consumer product will have a bad egg here and there.

3. I know, Like I said in my previous post "arguing on the internet is like arguing who the smartest *** is." I do own all 3 groups though and I like them all and have had very few problems with them, set up wise. Just because some one else has had problems doesn't mean we all have had them..

So we should all listen to you because you don't have any problems, or "very few" with your ScRAM grouppos? I got news for you fabramowski, there are a few people here that have far more experience with these sort of things, mechanics and shop owners that deal with hundreds of customers. People here know very well who to listen to about these things on the forum, not you, one person who claims to have good luck. C'mon man, who you tryin' to fool? Really?

If you think "arguing on the internet is like arguing who the smartest *** is.", why do you keep coming back for more? You should put that in your signature. It's almost as if your flaming then blaming it on others who don't agree with you. Those links you posted blow btw, they don't help your "argument" whatsoever, in fact they make your argument look kind of, well, weak.

ScRAM is a far distant 3rd out of the 3 component makers in every aspect, performance, reliability, durability, none of your claims or statements are going to change anybody's minds sorry to say.

 

[ultimobici]

That doesn't fly, Red is cheaper than DA, further their race bikes are going to be DI2, so it is WAY cheaper than that.

Since SRAM was a sponsor it is a double turn around on dollars. Now if you were to say it was a political decision based on a spat with SRAM, then I could come at that

Nothing to do with the cost of the parts, rather the depth of the relevant supplier's pockets.

Shimano or Sram will both pay for the privilege of having their kit on the bikes and supply kit as well. When you bear in mind Shimano turns over approximately $2 Billion a year, comfortably 4 times the size of their nearest rival, they can afford to outbid Sram.

 

[ultimobici]

2. no, just pointing out that every consumer product will have a bad egg here and there.

Nope.

That was a Shimano 600 8 speed lever that had most likely died a natural death.
By the time that video was posted the levers had been out of production for 6 years. That's assuming it was the last of the last.
It's been passed down to the kid's bike for crying out loud!

 

[Suedehead]

Nothing to do with the cost of the parts, rather the depth of the relevant supplier's pockets.

Shimano or Sram will both pay for the privilege of having their kit on the bikes and supply kit as well. When you bear in mind Shimano turns over approximately $2 Billion a year, comfortably 4 times the size of their nearest rival, they can afford to outbid Sram.

But thats the point shimano haven't outbid sram. As far as is known shimano isn't a sponsor next year. Yet they are riding shimano.
Look at bmc's sponsors, no mention of shimano, just as Csc used shimano.

 

[ultimobici]

But thats the point shimano haven't outbid sram. As far as is known shimano isn't a sponsor next year. Yet they are riding shimano.
Look at bmc's sponsors, no mention of shimano, just as Csc used shimano.

According to one solitary site....

There is not a dickey bird anywhere else about this 48 hours after it was posted on VN's site. The only references to it on Google other than the article itself are forum posts!

Garmin had their team launch at approximately the same time, yet there was no announcement and Sram are still named on the website. What gives?

How will David Millar feel about having to ride the same kit that cost him a Giro stage?

IIRC there is only one team on the road tour that has Shimano as a title sponsor, Skil-Shimano. Sram & Campagnolo have none. The reason, they don't need to be named because they are in every single picture taken.

 

[Parera]

Nick Legan is a former Pro Tour mechanic, and worked for Garmin-Slipstream for a time. I'm sure he talks to the riders on a regular basis; he would be the guy to know. Why would he make something up? SRAM also is a sponsor for VeloNews' website, running a fabricated story like you insinuate would be career suicide for someone like Legan. So why are you discrediting his report?

 

[ultimobici]

Nick Legan is a former Pro Tour mechanic, and worked for Garmin-Slipstream for a time. I'm sure he talks to the riders on a regular basis; he would be the guy to know. Why would he make something up? SRAM also is a sponsor for VeloNews' website, running a fabricated story like you insinuate would be career suicide for someone like Legan. So why are you discrediting his report?

True he worked for several teams over a period of 7 years.

But, just as I read more than one newspaper, I'd prefer a little corroboration before jumping to the conclusion he and you have. Had it only been a few hours ago that his story was posted you'd have a point, but it's two full days and no other cycling site has deigned to report anything similar. Begs the question, how much fact is his piece based on?

 

[funnytanlines]

but then again there have been no denials or retractions or press releases saying shimano is a new sponsor. if you look at pics of the current garmin cervelo bikes, they're all on DA, so definitely the "leap" has been made.

it's not unknown for teams to buy their equipment (csc, bmc, as stated earlier, or htc using unbranded hed wheels/rims). it's not usually talked about because teams don't want to give free advertising to equipment they pay for.

 

[ultimobici]

but then again there have been no denials or retractions or press releases saying shimano is a new sponsor. if you look at pics of the current garmin cervelo bikes, they're all on DA, so definitely the "leap" has been made.

it's not unknown for teams to buy their equipment (csc, bmc, as stated earlier, or htc using unbranded hed wheels/rims). it's not usually talked about because teams don't want to give free advertising to equipment they pay for.

True, and looking at the pictures from their presentation the other night one notable absence from the backdrop of sponsors is Sram.

WRT the reason for the change, I suspect that the reason Shimano won't give them kit would be the same as the reason CSC had to pay. Shimano won't supply anything but full groupsets. If you want to use Rotor, FSA or any other set up, you buy your kit. Sram aren't so picky.

 

[Race Radio]

WRT the reason for the change, I suspect that the reason Shimano won't give them kit would be the same as the reason CSC had to pay. Shimano won't supply anything but full groupsets. If you want to use Rotor, FSA or any other set up, you buy your kit. Sram aren't so picky.

This is true. Garmin can make more sponsor $$ by having individual parts sponsors. This may have changed but in the past if you wanted Shimano to pay you to ride their gear you had to use all of their stuff, including wheels.

 

[Parera]

This is true. Garmin can make more sponsor $$ by having individual parts sponsors. This may have changed but in the past if you wanted Shimano to pay you to ride their gear you had to use all of their stuff, including wheels.

Shimano sponsored Leopard-Trek and they used Bontrager wheels.

 

[funnytanlines]

i took a quick look at the leopard-trek website. shimano isn't actually listed as a partner/sponsor

http://www.leopardtrek.lu/partners

i wonder if that means they also bought their drivetrains?

now that they've merged with radioshack, i guess they will all ride sram

 

[Race Radio]

Shimano sponsored Leopard-Trek and they used Bontrager wheels.

Shimano is not listed as a sponsor on the Leopard-Trek website. I know they use their gear but are they paid to use it?

 

[Parera]

Shimano is not listed as a sponsor on the Leopard-Trek website. I know they use their gear but are they paid to use it?

Why else would Trek paint "SHIMANO" on their chainstays? Would be shocked if Shimano wasn't sponsoring them, because as was said earlier, who gives away free advertising in pro cycling?

 

[funnytanlines]

i wondered about that myself, but anyway since the team has merged with RS, they'll probably all use sram.

Shimano is not listed as a sponsor on the Leopard-Trek website. I know they use their gear but are they paid to use it?

 

[Suedehead]

Shimano is not listed as a sponsor on the Leopard-Trek website. I know they use their gear but are they paid to use it?

IF you look at the shimano site, they list leopard as a team they sponsor 2011. Along with sky, rabo, htc, fdj, euskaltel, skil-shimano, tt1, etc. But no BMC.

 

[kiwirider]

But, just as I read more than one newspaper, I'd prefer a little corroboration before jumping to the conclusion he and you have. ... Begs the question, how much fact is his piece based on?

Quite a bit I'd suggest ...

Here's a picture of the team bike from the team presentation the other night - the link to this picture came from the Slipstream Sports website, so it's legit and official ...

http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/butterflywriter/status/137444185874763776/photo/1

 

[ultimobici]

Quite a bit I'd suggest ...

Here's a picture of the team bike from the team presentation the other night - the link to this picture came from the Slipstream Sports website, so it's legit and official ...

http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/butterflywriter/status/137444185874763776/photo/1

That Shimano kit is replacing Sram is not the part I have issue with. The author's assertion that it is because a few riders whined about their bikes is the bit I doubt. My gut says it is more about how many Euros Sram were prepared to stump up being less than Shimano were prepared to pay.

Sure personal preferences come into it but at the end of the day it is a business and Vaughters has to do the best deal for the continued success of the team. That they were on Sram has SFA to do with their lack of wins this year. Wait a minute, they won a few races on that crappy leaping stuff!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garmin-Cervélo#Major_Results

Certainly better result compared to Shimano DI2 equipped LeOpard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_Trek#Major_results

Funny that they are likely going to be on Sram next year, so it makes sense that Sram would drop out of the equation with Garmin. After their smash and grab raids in the top echelons of the sport in the last couple of years I wouldn't be surprised at them reigning in their spending.

I looked up the credentials of the VN journalist though. He's been in many teams in his seven years, six to be exact. Interestingly he was brought back into the Pro Tour at the last minute by Bruyneel. One has to question his abilities, either mechanically or to fit in, if he doesn't get rehired after each season.

 

[Parera]

That Shimano kit is replacing Sram is not the part I have issue with. The author's assertion that it is because a few riders whined about their bikes is the bit I doubt. My gut says it is more about how many Euros Sram were prepared to stump up being less than Shimano were prepared to pay.

Sure personal preferences come into it but at the end of the day it is a business and Vaughters has to do the best deal for the continued success of the team. That they were on Sram has SFA to do with their lack of wins this year. Wait a minute, they won a few races on that crappy leaping stuff!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garmin-Cervélo#Major_Results

Certainly better result compared to Shimano DI2 equipped LeOpard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_Trek#Major_results

Funny that they are likely going to be on Sram next year, so it makes sense that Sram would drop out of the equation with Garmin. After their smash and grab raids in the top echelons of the sport in the last couple of years I wouldn't be surprised at them reigning in their spending.

I looked up the credentials of the VN journalist though. He's been in many teams in his seven years, six to be exact. Interestingly he was brought back into the Pro Tour at the last minute by Bruyneel. One has to question his abilities, either mechanically or to fit in, if he doesn't get rehired after each season.

He's on Twitter. Ask him any reasonable question and I'm sure he will respond if he's not busy.