Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

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damian13ster said:
And we arrived at the real problem here. Many people here dont care about true nature of sport. As long as Colombian wins, even if it was by suckerpunching all of the opponents or throwing them all of the cliff they will be happy and everybody who even considers noting that not everything was in the spirit of sport rivalization is a whiner.
...and in your case, as long as your hated/despised Quintana does not win then, and only then, will you be content. Don't try to spin it as if everyone here that has an opposing view to yours is lacking what you seem think that you have in abundance: integrity. You're no better than anyone else arguing against your point. The difference is that your holy-than-thou personna is as transparent as a worn out pair of lycra bibs.:(
 
BigMac said:
Because our PRR dreams and contributions are in there? :p
The PRR section is described as "A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum."

The content of the Games and Fantasy cycling section has far more to do with "things related to current professional road races" than the race design thread has.
 
Angliru said:
...and in your case, as long as your hated/despised Quintana does not win then, and only then, will you be content. Don't try to spin it as if everyone here that has an opposing view to yours is lacking what you seem think that you have in abundance: integrity. You're no better than anyone else arguing against your point. The difference is that your holy-than-thou personna is as transparent as a worn out pair of lycra bibs.:(
I dont hate/despise Quintana at all. Neutral toward him. What I hate and despise is a dirty play. I dont have favorites in the peleton and just cheer for my compatriots (I am Polish). I am not saying that everyone who opposes my view lacks integrity. What I am saying is that riders who break the rules, gain advantage over it, then lie through their teeth, as weel as race directors who cant own up to the mess they created lack integrity.
 
May 19, 2010
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Im going to say again the ds are just mad because they believed nairo Ryder and Rolland would not be able to stay off the front to the finish. they took a gamble and failed. If one of them had called the race manager as they started to go clear they could of got exact confirmation within seconds and known if they had to chase. But they sat up and slow peddled because they knew they would either catch them or they could complain about the result.

It was in half the top tens best interest that it was neutralized. So they were happy to play into the confusion
 
damian13ster said:
And we arrived at the real problem here. Many people here dont care about true nature of sport. As long as Colombian wins, even if it was by suckerpunching all of the opponents or throwing them all of the cliff they will be happy and everybody who even considers noting that not everything was in the spirit of sport rivalization is a whiner.
...but did you realize that a "Colombian" took over the Maglia Rosa from "another Colombian" - didn't you? :rolleyes:
 
FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Solution: If those involved are grown up men, with at least a little integrity left, they would accept the only way possible: Making a compromise. AFAIR, the gap was between 1.37 and 1.45 at parts after the descent. Reduce that amount (1.45) of Rolland, Nairo and Hesj, and go on from there. Everybody would win. The fans having their spectacle with small time gaps, DSes and race organizers to save face, and riders in position to fight the CG out between themselves...
Agreed. Sounds reasonable.
Dazed and Confused said:
But you are penalizing these specific riders. Thats what you are suggesting. Think about it.

If everybody thinks the sporting results have been completely compromised, well then the riders involved should be removed from the GC entirely. Then we have a fair competition between the rest of the competitors.

And remember sports is not about making everybody happy. Its about getting the fairest result.
I believe the above would be the fairest result.
 
Jun 2, 2013
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I heard the exact communication from Radio Corsa to the teams (has anyone reported it here, with translation? I can't read 250+ pages to find it :D). I know the thread is probably full of posts along the same lines as mine, probably expressed with better words, but I'd like to expose my point of view.

I think the race direction made 2 mistakes:
1. The motorbikes were unnecessary. I don't think a pro cyclist needs a red flag to realize that a wet and techincally difficult descent is dangerous.
2. The choice of words was miserable. It's full of phrases that mean nothing and vague terms (even the concept of "attack" is vague; if I ride with my own pace and the rider behind me is unable to follow me, am I attacking?).

That being said, the way Bramati and all the other team managers led their teams was awful. First of all, if a rider like Quintana pulls away from the group, you chase him, no matter what. You catch him, and then you start thinking about what that communication really meant. You don't let him take a 2-minute advantage before asking yourself a few questions.
Also, Radio Corsa announced Quintana had 50'' over the pink jersey group halfway through the descent, when the red flags were already gone. He gained another minute during the rest of the downhill because riders in the Uran group - with their respective DS, I suppose - decided to take it easy anyway, even if the main favourite of the Giro was almost a minute ahead of them.
Finally, if they had doubts about the content of the message from Radio Corsa (and I assume they did, since the message may be ambiguous, but it sure doesn't say the race is neutralized with clear words), they could ask for more information. Mauro Vegni said nobody did.
 
Yes, but Uran was losing advantage and fading. Dont tell me that Colombians arent happy with having Quintana with over a minut on Uran and then Uran in 2nd place with over a minute on next rider?

The point still stands. Quintana gained the advantage by disobeying communication from the race radio. If there were no basis to question the fairness of this situation you wouldnt have 95% of peleton claiming rules were not the same for everyone and possibilities of protests and lawsuits
 
damian13ster said:
Yes, but Uran was losing advantage and fading. Dont tell me that Colombians arent happy with having Quintana with over a minut on Uran and then Uran in 2nd place with over a minute on next rider?

The point still stands. Quintana gained the advantage by disobeying communication from the race radio. If there were no basis to question the fairness of this situation you wouldnt have 95% of peleton claiming rules were not the same for everyone and possibilities of protests and lawsuits
...URAN has not complained ;)
 
Jun 2, 2013
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damian13ster said:
Yes, but Uran was losing advantage and fading. Dont tell me that Colombians arent happy with having Quintana with over a minut on Uran and then Uran in 2nd place with over a minute on next rider?

The point still stands. Quintana gained the advantage by disobeying communication from the race radio. If there were no basis to question the fairness of this situation you wouldnt have 95% of peleton claiming rules were not the same for everyone and possibilities of protests and lawsuits
The point is there is no rule about motorbikes leading riders with red flags. Basically, Quintana has broken a rule that doesn't exist.
 
Jun 3, 2011
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Rcs

Very interesting thread! I actually spent the morning reading it instead of watching the stage. Now I see why LAPD resorts to deadly force so often these days.... it's the only thing that wouldn't necessarily be seen as open to interpretation.

Poor RCS! They can backtrack, spin, and lie all they want but the gc results will always be one big * for me. And the precedent that this episode sets is not a good one for the sport.

Their incompetence has 'neutralized' this Giro as a sporting event for me. I might watch the Zoncolan stage, but only as a WWF-style entertainment
 
Mellow Velo said:
On the other hand, Tinkoff has done nothing but complain.
Now, where does Majka come from, again?:rolleyes:;)
Uran DID complain. And Majka doesnt fight for overall win but for a podium spot so the fact that GC is resolved under the table doesnt concern him that much. And the only mention of it from him was during one interview where he said that he feels rules werent the same for everyone but the riders themselves arent the same.

So Uran's statement= Majka's statement.

And I am not sure if you remember but OPQS' DS complains quite strongly as well. Enough to deserve his own thread......


So.....your point was?
 
damian13ster said:
I dont hate/despise Quintana at all. Neutral toward him. What I hate and despise is a dirty play. I dont have favorites in the peleton and just cheer for my compatriots (I am Polish). I am not saying that everyone who opposes my view lacks integrity. What I am saying is that riders who break the rules, gain advantage over it, then lie through their teeth, as weel as race directors who cant own up to the mess they created lack integrity.
You did indicate that your opinion of him changed based on the media's dalily reporting on his crash injuries and illnesses that he was inflicted with over the course of the Giro. This I assume was your interpretation of him making excuses for his performance. Rather it was him answering questions put to him by the media. Your admission that you lost respect for him because of his supposed "whining", in addition to the blanked out expletives that are in your posts lead me to think that you're taking this controversy a bit too personal.
 
Angliru said:
You did indicate that your opinion of him changed based on the media's dalily reporting on his crash injuries and illnesses that he was inflicted with over the course of the Giro. This I assume was your interpretation of him making excuses for his performance. Rather it was him answering questions put to him by the media. Your admission that you lost respect for him because of his supposed "whining", in addition to the blanked out expletives that are in your posts lead me to think that you're taking this controversy a bit too personal.
Yeah, I always take seeing somebody unfairly gain advantage over others very badly. We live in a corrupt world and I love sports, mostly because they seem pure.....until stage like this happens (and please no mention of clinic here)
 
The more I dig into the UCI rules and regulations looking for guidance on this situation, the more I'm glad I'm not a commissaire. So much vagueness! So much room for individual interpretation! I understand that there must be a human element in making judgements, but some of these rules governing the behavior and responsibilities of racers are so broad that they could be used (not to say twisted) to rationalize anything! To wit:

1.2.080 All license holders shall, in whatever capacity, participate in cycling races in a sporting and fair manner. They shall look to contribute fairly to the sporting success of the race.

1.2.081 Riders shall sportingly defend their own chances. Any collusion or behavior likely to falsify or go against the interests of the competition shall be forbidden.
 
The stage is over, and so is the one after it.
The riders have long moved on and are back to racing.
Anything that needs to settled will be done on the road, with legs; not mouths.

And anyone in this thread who is still whining about the outcome is off the back and OTL. They are considered to be a loser. Maybe your mom will listen to your complaints. Maybe.

 
Aug 4, 2010
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jsem94 said:
Pink helmet for Nairo, but regular for Majka.
Its great:),Im still waiting for decent pics of him in pink.
Do you know why are there white stripes on sides of Movi team logo?
It looks worse :mad:
 
Aug 17, 2009
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If the descent was viewed by some/all the organisers as being dangerous, then they should have announced that the finish line had been moved to the top of the Stelvio. Riders could have then descended at whatever speed they wished. Which in turn would have left Cataldo as the stage winner.
 
MotorRouleur said:
The stage is over, and so is the one after it.
The riders have long moved on and are back to racing.
Anything that needs to settled will be done on the road, with legs; not mouths.

And anyone in this thread who is still whining about the outcome is off the back and OTL. They are considered to be a loser. Maybe your mom will listen to your complaints. Maybe.

CN says others weren't so happy to shake his hand. He looks like Liberace.
 

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