Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Wow Quintana. looks like I missed a hell of a stage.

Yep. How could you?
And thx to Europecar/Rolland... as I said yesterday it´s all up to him. If he attacks we´ll have a great stage. Otherwise circa 15 riders would have gone into the last climb and attack with only 6 Km to go...

 

[Petiso]

That only shows that there where ate least one motorcyclist waving a red flag on "dangerous" curves.

Anyways, I have been searching all the descent, and I didn't found any other motorcycle or red flag (neither in front of the "group" or in front of Cataldo).

Ah, thanks! That certainly argues in favor of at least some of the moto officials believing they were just meant to be warning of hazardous conditions.

 

[Arnout]

No need for that. Just remove the cars and let´s see who truly has talent.

Funny how Quick Step and Saxo complains, but Pozzo and Evans didn´t. Sore losers. And Lefevre I don´t trust at all. Once a liar, always one.

Quintana will silence everybody anyway, winning this GT by 5 mins to leave no doubt.

By the way, I might be the only one, but isn't your signature a bit long? In my opinion signature at all times should be shorter or at least not longer in terms of space than what you actually have to say in that post.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

OK! And they should also increase the number of participants to 180

And remove the engines.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Neutralized race or not, you just do not let the race favorite ride away.

This. You go with him, you yell at him about how it's supposed to be neutralised until he sits up, or you sit on him while you get further info from race directors or team car on how to proceed. But you don't just let Nairo freaking Quintana ride away from you thinking he's going to stop at the bottom for ice cream like some reverse psychology Bahamontes.

 

[yespatterns]

Basically when it comes down to it, some cyclists want to ride, and others to race. I don't know about you all, but if im in the MR and my biggest competiotion rolls off I'd probably pay attention. In any event Nairo went beast-mode, pulling Ryder and Pierre up 20k of climb, and left scorched earth behind. By far the most interesting day of stage racing in recent years, controversy and all.

 

[damian13ster]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gal...-giro-ditalia-finds-winter-atop-gavia-stelvio


This indicates that BMC thought it was neutralized as well. Maybe some riders try to be more diplomatic and not speak out under emotions?


'to avoid that there are attack on the descent, to ensure that the riders hold their position and avoid taking huge risks. They should hold that position until the official lower the red flags."

This is a quote from the race radio. It talks about holding position. Passing riders that stopped to put on some clothes is NOT holding a position so it is clearly ignoring official message whether it can be classified as an attack or not.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

By the way, I might be the only one, but isn't your signature a bit long? In my opinion signature at all times should be shorter or at least not longer in terms of space than what you actually have to say in that post.

You have a point here. But it´s off topic. Why don´t you PM me for ideas?...

 

[Arnout]

You have a point here. But it´s off topic. Why don´t you PM me for ideas?...

Well the best idea is just to select it and delete it I'm not really all that bothered by it, but I found myself scrolling quite a bit so that's why I made a post about it.

 

[Angliru]

So did Majka/Saxo and OPQS. Thats 2/3 of the race podium prior to this stage. Quite important in my opinion. Garmin also admitted they thought stage was neutralised but just didnt manage to communicate it to Hesjedal (although they tried). That indicates communication was limited at the summit. Honorable thing to do would be to slow down the rhythm and wait for the peleton. Surely not significant amount of energy were lost if Rolland/Quintana claim they just followed wheels.

Anyway, official protest has been filed by multiple teams but of course nothing is going to change now.

Quintana will always be labeled as a phony GT winner until he wins another one or unless he lights the world up on Zoncolan and takes Giro by 4+ minutes because 2,5 minutes alone were made on descent, plus further confusion in the peleton and effects that it had on mentality of the peleton (feeling cheated, confused, etc. doesnt help in putting max effort)

You should add (to the bolded text): "IMO".

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Basically when it comes down to it, some cyclists want to ride, and others to race. I don't know about you all, but if im in the MR and my biggest competiotion rolls off I'd probably pay attention. In any event Nairo went beast-mode, pulling Ryder and Pierre up 20k of climb, and left scorched earth behind. By far the most interesting day of stage racing in recent years, controversy and all.

Echelon stage, 2013 Tour
Fuente Dé, 2012 Vuelta
Rifugio Gardeccia, 2011 Giro
Alpe d'Huez, 2011 Tour
Col du Galibier, 2011 Tour
Every GC stage of the 2010 Giro especially Aprica

It belongs among those as the most interesting Grand Tour racing days of the last few years, and definitely will take some beating for 2014's best GT racing day, but I think 'by far the most interesting' is perhaps overselling it a bit.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Basically when it comes down to it, some cyclists want to ride, and others to race. I don't know about you all, but if im in the MR and my biggest competiotion rolls off I'd probably pay attention. In any event Nairo went beast-mode, pulling Ryder and Pierre up 20k of climb, and left scorched earth behind. By far the most interesting day of stage racing in recent years, controversy and all.

I would agree, but there were other great stages like the one AC rode away from JRod at the Vuelta, the DeGendt stage, the Schleck one and only time he ever did risk something, the split stage, the 7 1/2 hours stage....
I think there should be a poll for the best stages of the past 5 years.

Hitch are you there? You can do it, since you recall all and everything.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Or maybe they thought it was there to help them down/to show the path. Nothing wrong with that. If they didn't hear about the neutralization, then you can't expect them to figure out what the red flag means.

Exactly. Epic stage. The cream rises.

 

[damian13ster]

You should add (to the bolded text): "IMO".

You are right. My bad. I just cant stand any people who take advantage of bull****, win on an uneven ground like that and pretend that nothing has happened, even though they have potential to do the right thing and in the end be still strong enough to win fairly. I let my emotions go

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

You should add (to the bolded text): "IMO".

http://www.imo.org/Pages/home.aspx

I don't understand why people allways talking about IMO...

 

[Walkman]

Unzue:

"There was a lot of confusion," Unzue told Cyclingnews. "The race organisers and the UCI judges are in charge of the race. Quintana only did what other riders did. The Europcar riders took the descent pretty fast but the race wasn't neutralized. They didn’t say the race was neutralized, they said the motor bikes would signal the dangers by waving a red flag."

"I think it's important to point out that Nairo had a lead of a minute at the bottom of the Stelvio but gained four-minutes on Uran and the other riders. He gained most of the time on the climb, not on the descent."

Well this is BS. It was 1.5-2.0 min at the bottom of Stelvio.

 

[Angliru]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gal...-giro-ditalia-finds-winter-atop-gavia-stelvio


This indicates that BMC thought it was neutralized as well. Maybe some riders try to be more diplomatic and not speak out under emotions?


'to avoid that there are attack on the descent, to ensure that the riders hold their position and avoid taking huge risks. They should hold that position until the official lower the red flags."

This is a quote from the race radio. It talks about holding position. Passing riders that stopped to put on some clothes is NOT holding a position so it is clearly ignoring official message whether it can be classified as an attack or not.

Are they obligated to stop because the rider in front of them stopped for a jacket? That is ridiculous! How are riders supposed to keep track of who is stopping and who is proceeding in the midst of a snowstorm?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Well the best idea is just to select it and delete it I'm not really all that bothered by it, but I found myself scrolling quite a bit so that's why I made a post about it.

Let me think about it. But "Moose" must stay in.

Echelon stage, 2013 Tour
Fuente Dé, 2012 Vuelta
Rifugio Gardeccia, 2011 Giro
Alpe d'Huez, 2011 Tour
Col du Galibier, 2011 Tour
Every GC stage of the 2010 Giro especially Aprica

It belongs among those as the most interesting Grand Tour racing days of the last few years, and definitely will take some beating for 2014's best GT racing day, but I think 'by far the most interesting' is perhaps overselling it a bit.

OK. You also have great memories... We certainly need a poll (with multiple choices). You can do it?

 

[damian13ster]

I am pretty sure they meant stay in the same group and not stay in same position relative to individual rider in the peleton......

 

[Angliru]

http://www.imo.org/Pages/home.aspx

I don't understand why people allways talking about IMO...

There is a co-relation between Lighthouses being beacons to ships in turbulent weather and riders having motos with red flags leading riders to safe passage down a mountain in snowy conditions.

 

[yespatterns]

Haha, maybe I should have put an IMHO at the end. Besides 'recent years' is pretty open to subjectivity. ;-)

Anyway I feel comfortable saying it was the most interesting day this Giro. Even if that isn't saying much.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Too bad Andy and his friends werent there to 'nautralize' the race..

What a load of cr@p.

Big cojones win.

 

[Escarabajo]

So did Majka/Saxo and OPQS. Thats 2/3 of the race podium prior to this stage. Quite important in my opinion. Garmin also admitted they thought stage was neutralised but just didnt manage to communicate it to Hesjedal (although they tried). That indicates communication was limited at the summit. Honorable thing to do would be to slow down the rhythm and wait for the peleton. Surely not significant amount of energy were lost if Rolland/Quintana claim they just followed wheels.

Anyway, official protest has been filed by multiple teams but of course nothing is going to change now.

Quintana will always be labeled as a phony GT winner until he wins another one or unless he lights the world up on Zoncolan and takes Giro by 4+ minutes because 2,5 minutes alone were made on descent, plus further confusion in the peleton and effects that it had on mentality of the peleton (feeling cheated, confused, etc. doesnt help in putting max effort)

I think you are over reacting a little!

Quintana would have taken more time. Subtract 2 minutes but add some more time just because he did pull all the time. He would have been close to the lead if not the lead. He does not have to take 4 minutes on the Zoncolan. That is not correct!!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am pretty sure they meant stay in the same group and not stay in same position relative to individual rider in the peleton......

There will always be controversy when you have multiple groups being held steady though. You ever watch Le Mans? Due to the size of the course they have three separate safety cars, and each time the safety car comes out, the pits are buzzing with activity as obviously when the other cars are going slower, you can make a pit stop and lose less, relatively speaking, than if everybody is going at full race pace. But if you just beat one of the safety cars out, you can race round to join the next one, whereas somebody who left the pits just a couple of seconds after you could then stand to lose a minute and a half of track time; getting just in front of a safety car, racing round to the pits and getting back out on track before it could put you two safety cars ahead of somebody who got stopped behind the other one, then because they were going slower didn't get the time to get in and out of the pits before the next one, and suddenly two seconds on track becomes nearly 3 minutes.

It happens every time, and there's always arguments about whether it is fair and what effect it has on the racing, but on a course as big as La Sarthe it's impossible to police the whole track with just one safety car, so they stay that way. Similarly, the race today would have been nigh on impossible to police in an ideal fashion group by group. If a rider stops for a change and is caught by the next group on the road, are they allowed to then attack out of that group to catch the group they were originally in? How do you ensure that the right rider is the one you let go? How many riders constitutes a group, and is simply continuing really attacking out of a group? When a handful continue and a handful stop, do they remain the same group or do they become two separate groups, since it was a voluntary action to stop, the same as those sportscar teams pitting under the safety car and getting stuck behind the next one didn't have to pit, they could have kept going.

If they were going to police it and neutralise it, they should have righted the situation in the valley. They didn't, ergo what is Quintana to do? Voluntarily hand over the lead?

 

[Arnout]

It just sucks that we have to have this discussion now. Whatever happens it will take some shine of the victory and I don't think any rider is to blame for that