Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

[luckyboy]

You'd think someone would've told a camera moto to wait for Quintana group seeing as everyone was saying they got a gap

 

[Arnout]

How do we know Marco Velo didn't do exactly that? Relayed the info to the jury, I mean.

That could be. In that case Quintana would be cleared though. But I think the best course of action for Velo would have been to assert his authority. He should've warned Quintana (and all the others!) to not pass. I think giving a warning first is reasonable as clearly this was a chaotic last-second implementation of a rule that has, to my knowledge, not been used for a long time if ever.

 

[Der Effe]

If so, why did the moto not react? I hate Marco Velo now. If he is so sure it happened, he should've either called back Quintana or relayed this info to the jury to decide on it right away. But this idiotic statement after the race just makes me angry.

Yeah, let's shoot the messenger instead. Some people...

 

[meat puppet]

the foremost rider in the pic seems to sport white bar tape. so it's not quintana or ryder I take it.

agree with hrotha that the situation has changed somewhat. this mess must be cleaned up proper. no idea how, though, especially if the RCS keeps insisting there was no call for neutralisation as their "legal position".

if rules were breached, then the matter is rather straightforward. if the case is more of a grey area one, then handing time penalties would not be outrageous.

 

[Arnout]

Yeah, let's shoot the messenger instead. Some people...

It's not the messenger. He is the race official that could've prevented this entire mess

 

[jaylew]

It would be so lame for the Giro to be decided like this. I really hope Nairo gets a few more minutes somewhere

 

[Jagartrott]

They're not whining like BMC, the DS is just coming up with excuses trying to pretend he and the team did the best they could so that Tinkoff doesn't come after them, hehe...that's obvious with the "2 minute lead at the end of the descent" when only 6 hairpins were concerned by the pacing.

Semantics.
From Nicholas Roche's diary:

Slowly but surely we reeled in all bar three of the breakaway when, 3km from the top, we got a message in our earpieces saying that because of heavy snow on the first part of the descent, part of the downhill section leading to the final climb would be neutralised.

We were told there would be a motorbike riding in front of us, guiding us down with a red flag, and when the flag was pulled in we would be racing again. Our team and a lot of others had soigneurs waiting at the top with warm clothes, rain jackets and hot drinks and I was dying to put on something warm.

Just past the summit, I stopped alongside Evans, Uran and my team-mate Rafal Majka, who had begun the day in third place overall, and there were riders putting on jackets and rain gear all over the place in preparation for the wind-chilled descent.

I had trouble putting my winter gloves on because my hands were so cold but as I was leaning against a barrier, one of the spectators helped me get them on. We all remounted and with the descent neutralised, we expected to catch up with the front of the group pretty easily.

As I made my way back through the cars one of the other team cars was driving alongside the Movistar team car and I could hear the directeur sportifs arguing through the window.

I didn't know it at the time but when I got back to the group there was no motorbike, no red flag and to make matters worse, Nairo Quintana of Movistar had attacked with four or five others and was two minutes up the road.

When we found out the news, I knew that Quintana would leapfrog Rafal if he opened a big enough gap so I went straight to the front and alongside my team-mate Ivan Rovny, two of Uran's Quickstep team-mates and a guy from Astana, we drilled it to the last climb to try and close the gap.

...

Rafal finished seventh on the stage but lost four minutes to Quintana and three minutes to Frenchman Pierre Roland which means he's now fifth overall. Afterwards he was p***** off, but not with dropping two places. He's disappointed with the way it happened and I'd say he's not the only one tonight.

When they said it would be neutralised on the Stelvio descent, everybody stopped to put on jackets at the top apart from five or six guys, including the two that leapfrogged Rafal today.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

the foremost rider in the pic seems to sport white bar tape. so it's not quintana or ryder I take it.

agree with hrotha that the situation has changed somewhat. this mess must be cleaned up proper. no idea how, though, especially if the RCS keeps insisting there was no call for neutralisation as their "legal position".

if rules were breached, then the matter is rather straightforward. if the case is more of a grey area one, then handing time penalties would not be outrageous.

A race official has already said that no rules were breached by Quintana and the other riders in that front group. They can't backtrack on that now.

 

[luckyboy]

the foremost rider in the pic seems to sport white bar tape. so it's not quintana or ryder I take it.

agree with hrotha that the situation has changed somewhat. this mess must be cleaned up proper. no idea how, though, especially if the RCS keeps insisting there was no call for neutralisation as their "legal position".

if rules were breached, then the matter is rather straightforward. if the case is more of a grey area one, then handing time penalties would not be outrageous.

There's nothing really to do now. If RCS' position is that no neutralisation was called then nobody has any proof it was.

I figure whoever recorded and released that piece of race radio must have been recording all of it, no? So wouldn't any section of the broadcast that clearly stated the descent will be neutralised have been released?

 

[hrotha]

A race official has already said that no rules were breached by Quintana and the other riders in that front group. They can't backtrack on that now.

Why not? They've backtracked on everything else.

 

[webvan]

The red flag was there to warn of the dangerous corners. It wasn't a flag of neutralization.

Not according to Velo ?

 

[luckyboy]

Semantics.
From Nicholas Roche's diary:

Slowly but surely we reeled in all bar three of the breakaway when, 3km from the top, we got a message in our earpieces saying that because of heavy snow on the first part of the descent, part of the downhill section leading to the final climb would be neutralised.

We were told there would be a motorbike riding in front of us, guiding us down with a red flag, and when the flag was pulled in we would be racing again.

......

When they said it would be neutralised on the Stelvio descent, everybody stopped to put on jackets at the top apart from five or six guys, including the two that leapfrogged Rafal today.

Its up to them if they want to stop or not surely?

 

[Cimber]

The red flag was there to warn of the dangerous corners. It wasn't a flag of neutralization.

Neither is correct. According to the race radio (a replay shows that). The red flag meant that as long at that was up riders were not allowed to attack and were to stay in there group and were to stay behind to moto. But it was only when the flag was up.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Why not? They've backtracked on everything else.

They never said it was neutralized, or that riders would be punished if they passed the motor bikes (until the 6th hairpin of the descent.)

No hard rules were implemented, from what I've read so far.

 

[Czapiewski]

Red flag on moto to show dangerous corners?

 

[Cimber]

Its up to them if they want to stop or not surely?

No, the idea was that during the first part while the red falg was up there was to be no attracking and they should remain behind the moto till the flag was down

 

[Der Effe]

It's not the messenger. He is the race official that could've prevented this entire mess

And he gave the message for riders that - if they listened - would've prevented the entire mess, right? Making conclusions based on assumptions.

 

[Cimber]

According to reporters all the DS a having a meeting at the moment

 

[meat puppet]

A race official has already said that no rules were breached by Quintana and the other riders in that front group. They can't backtrack on that now.

There are, however, two narratives as to whether the descent was neutralised or not. There were also clearly tow different modes of behaviour on the part of riders and teams, reflecting their respective understanding of the situation.

For the record, I have no horse in this game apart from wanting the mess to be cleaned. Every party involved of course wants to spin this towards their way. This is one of the key reasons this needs to be sorted out.

Also I am not being argumentative or anything like that. It's just that there are two versions of the "truth" right now spinning around.

Given the info I have, racing was legit. However, I honestly believe that I have not all the relevant info.

 

[SafeBet]

I'm not sure where this 6th hairpin thing is coming from but there is no mention of it in the recording I've heard. They said the Moto would've been there until the conditions were safe enough for the riders to race it. I don't think riders could estimate for how many hairpins the Moto would've been there when they passed on top of Stelvio.

 

[Arnout]

And he gave the message for riders that - if they listened - would've prevented the entire mess, right? Making conclusions based on assumptions.

Yeah, after the race, when it was too late.

 

[Cimber]

Rasmus Staghøj‏@Staghoj·2 mins
Jeg har aldrig set det her før. Stemningen er ophidset. Greenedges sportsdirektør hæver stemmen. Riis har haft ordet pic.twitter.com/LxYuKdhctH

Translation: "I've never seen this before. The atmosphere is tense. Greenedges sports director raises his voice. Riis has spoken"

 

[webvan]

Its up to them if they want to stop or not surely?

Right, it seems they assumed the race was put on hiatus indefinitely at the top of Stelvio and they could take their time...when there is pacing in F1 (can't think of too many other sports where that happens?) if you stop in the pit you can't expect to get your spot back in the front! Most of this sounds like excuses by guys who got caught with their pants down and don't want to answer for it.

 

[Jagartrott]

Its up to them if they want to stop or not surely?

They thought it was a 'pace car' situation, so that they would easily catch up in the descent as the motorbike would set a low pace in front of each group, preserving differences between groups at the top. If you of course overtake the pace car, then it becomes a totally different story.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Massive win by Quintana. It's a pity that it's overshadowed by the whole neutralised-or-not issue. What would have happened without the attack in the descent is pure speculation. Maybe the gaps would have been smaller, maybe not.

Fact is that Uran looked uncertain and vulnerable on that final climb, especially when Michael Rogers had to lead and Uran didn't take over. I remember Indurain going after Chiappucci in the 1992 Tour, dropping Bugno and everyone else. Uran clearly didn't have that in him.

Then there is Hesjedal. I was ridiculed for putting him second behind Quintana in my Giro prediction. Without the time loss in the team time trial, he would be second now!

So is Quintana the new Pantani? His attack yesterday did remind me of the Pirate!