Stage 8: Station des Rousses - Morzine-Avoriaz 189km

[Race Radio]

It was interesting to see Vino at first falling back then going back to the front of the race to drive the pace. When asked about it after the race he said

"When I saw that Armstrong had let go, I'm back with a vengeance"

Vino is probably not too happy about all those Borat slurs from lance

 

[bobs nob]

Once a sock puppet, always a sock puppet! The commentator for the online service is much better. They should give him a chance. My prediction is that L and S will go Evans or Schleck, since if they went Contador they would still have to deal with the Puppet Master and they would prefer not to deal with that. They may have been giddy for a minute but the strings were pulled in quite quickly. It will soon become, "Armstrong is leading Leipheimer up the mountain," on and on, said in 42 different ways until they all fall off the mountain or we all throw up.

The replay stage just ended (because they had to wait a certain road rash victim to come in). Paul was definitely still spewing the AC is fallible line right to the bitter end. Phil was not really responding to it, iow, you're full of it but I can't say that on an open mic.

Whatever. I am sure they will be pimping anyone but contador from here on out. But Phil seemed to be clearheaded when the situation allows him to stray from the propaganda line.

 

[bobs nob]

It was interesting to see Vino at first falling back then going back to the front of the race to drive the pace. When asked about it after the race he said

"When I saw that Armstrong had let go, I'm back with a vengeance"

Vino is probably not too happy about all those Borat slurs from lance

I don't think anyone from that part of the world is happy about that movie. Nor should they be. Least of all from a celebrity who has no idea what it's like over there.

 

[ulrikmm]

I don't think anyone from that part of the world is happy about that movie. Nor should they be. Least of all from a celebrity who has no idea what it's like over there.

Wasn't the real life americans the real jerks in that movie?

 

[Galic Ho]

Both today and on the last day of mountain day of the Dauphin Contador did not need to conserve energy and he was unable to respond to show his expected dominance.

I can't see him responding in the 3rd week either - he has serious lost it, some how some where long the way since last Tour.

Should make for a good tactical race!

Please tell the entire forum when Alberto Contador last tried to win the Dauphine was?

You'll struggle. Contador has not tried to win the Dauphine in any recent edition. He uses it as training. His training speed is fast enough to make the podium. Brajkovic beat him in the Dauphine so why was he back so far today? Surely with the form to best Alberto Contador, who by your logic was really trying in June, he should have been a force today.

Please wake up and come back down to earth. People need to drop the exaggerated comments.

To the newbie demanding answers as to why a rider would let an opponent gain 10 seconds, could you please explain to me when was the last GT mountain stage where there were not time gains like that, be it Tour, Giro or Vuelta? Ten seconds is almost irrelevant. You get to the end. If you can sprint for the win you do. Only two did. What does that say about the others? Oh, they just lost the Tour!You fail in your logic. It is day 8 not day 18!

 

[JRanton]

A fan caught Lance's crash on video. The baby is pretty annoying/distracting, but you can see him skid what looks like a good 15-20 feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHBftK8okyA

That was a very hard fall. Hardly surprising that he lost so much time after that incident.

 

[perico]

The replay stage just ended (because they had to wait a certain road rash victim to come in). Paul was definitely still spewing the AC is fallible line right to the bitter end. Phil was not really responding to it, iow, you're full of it but I can't say that on an open mic.

Whatever. I am sure they will be pimping anyone but contador from here on out. But Phil seemed to be clearheaded when the situation allows him to stray from the propaganda line.

Phil has always been a bit naive about things, but he's one of the nicest people I've ever met. He's always been a cheerleader. He was that way with LeMond, Hampsten, Millar, etc... He's also always taken the side of the riders until it was proven through testing or the rider admitted it, but I think that has more to do with his personality. He probably truly worries about offending the riders.

Liggett tries to immortalize every performance, and won't ever take a critical stand unless he personally feels assaulted. I mean... Harry Carey was one of the most loved baseball announcers of all time, and that guy bungled more names than George W. in his alcoholic days. While those who sit and cast a cynical eye towards the sport will tend to not appreciate this, I can say that he has a lot of appeal. My mother is no cycling fan, but loves listening to Phil, and I think that is his charm. Those who expect every commentator to be like Paul Kimmage might not like it, but for a sport that depends on sponsor endorsements for it's survival, it's bad business to sit there and will get you fired. Remember that Al Trautwig disappeared after 2007 when he openly questioned whether any riders of the past decade had been clean.

I think to work for a network like Vs. or any other in which you depend on sponsorships for your success, you have to make the sale. It rubs a lot of the purists the wrong way, but not everyone can watch the Tour online, and they have to sell their product to the masses in order to survive. Remember that OLN once carried all three GTs in splendid coverage back in the day, but when they changed management and the former president, who was a cycling enthusiast, resigned... we lost the great coverage and then we get wrap up shows with Hummy and Bobke at night to dumb it down even further.

The thing about Phil is that he tends to not editorialize about the riders in his commentary. When he's written articles or editorials, as he did back when he was the Int. Editor for CycleSport, you'd be surprised, but that side of him doesn't come out in his commentaries on television.

Sherwin, on the other hand, was one of Lance's best friends back before he had cancer... as the PR man for Motorola

 

[bobs nob]

Wasn't the real life americans the real jerks in that movie?

There are put downs galore of more than just one culture or group. But I am not sure how one can be from that part of the world and not react to such insults. It's easy to pick on America. Most Americans don't care. We're on top (or very near to it, if you must). Try being insulted when you are that far from the top....

 

[perico]

That was a very hard fall. Hardly surprising that he lost so much time after that incident.

No kidding.

 

[sometriguy]

Phil has always been a bit naive about things, but he's one of the nicest people I've ever met. He's always been a cheerleader. He was that way with LeMond, Hampsten, Millar, etc... He's also always taken the side of the riders until it was proven through testing or the rider admitted it, but I think that has more to do with his personality. He probably truly worries about offending the riders.

Liggett tries to immortalize every performance, and won't ever take a critical stand unless he personally feels assaulted. I mean... Harry Carey was one of the most loved baseball announcers of all time, and that guy bungled more names than George W. in his alcoholic days. While those who sit and cast a cynical eye towards the sport will tend to not appreciate this, I can say that he has a lot of appeal. My mother is no cycling fan, but loves listening to Phil, and I think that is his charm. Those who expect every commentator to be like Paul Kimmage might not like it, but for a sport that depends on sponsor endorsements for it's survival, it's bad business to sit there and will get you fired. Remember that Al Trautwig disappeared after 2007 when he openly questioned whether any riders of the past decade had been clean.

I think to work for a network like Vs. or any other in which you depend on sponsorships for your success, you have to make the sale. It rubs a lot of the purists the wrong way, but not everyone can watch the Tour online, and they have to sell their product to the masses in order to survive. Remember that OLN once carried all three GTs in splendid coverage back in the day, but when they changed management and the former president, who was a cycling enthusiast, resigned... we lost the great coverage and then we get wrap up shows with Hummy and Bobke at night to dumb it down even further.

The thing about Phil is that he tends to not editorialize about the riders in his commentary. When he's written articles or editorials, as he did back when he was the Int. Editor for CycleSport, you'd be surprised, but that side of him doesn't come out in his commentaries on television.

Sherwin, on the other hand, was one of Lance's best friends back before he had cancer... as the PR man for Motorola

I've always liked Phil. I spent an evening with him at a pub when i was just getting into cycling. Seems like a tremendous guy. I understand that he has to do what he does, but it still sucks

Once lance is gone, life will be good again. I just hope they can keep the HD images coming to those of us in the states

 

[perico]

I've always liked Phil. I spent an evening with him at a pub when i was just getting into cycling. Seems like a tremendous guy. I understand that he has to do what he does, but it still sucks

Once lance is gone, life will be good again. I just hope they can keep the HD images coming to those of us in the states

He is a great guy. I've had the opportunity to meet a number of pros and commentators on occasion, and Phil is the guy who will invite you to go riding with him after you meet him.

 

[jilbiker]

AS too much talk

One thing about AC last year is that he let his biking do his talking. LA continued mouthing almost non-stop. This year its AS that is mouthing, he talks too much and today's victory hasn't helped. He still has quite a bit to learn namely that winning a tour is 60% mental 40% physical and the more you talk the more muddled you get on the mental side. One thing about AC, he doesn't talk much (he may be a naturally quiet guy) and he doesn't reveal much.

On talent (in the mountains) I would say that AC and AS are a bit matched up, and I was going to predict a close tour but after AS mouthing today after the stage, I have ruled him out, talks too much. If it wasn't for the impact of Giro, I would have picked Basso as the rival to watch. yet if Basso does well after the hectic Giro, I will be even more convinced that juicing is involved.

 

[bobs nob]

One thing about AC last year is that he let his biking do his talking. LA continued mouthing almost non-stop. This year its AS that is mouthing, he talks too much and today's victory hasn't helped. He still has quite a bit to learn namely that winning a tour is 60% mental 40% physical and the more you talk the more muddled you get on the mental side. One thing about AC, he doesn't talk much (he may be a naturally quiet guy) and he doesn't reveal much.

On talent (in the mountains) I would say that AC and AS are a bit matched up, and I was going to predict a close tour but after AS mouthing today after the stage, I have ruled him out, talks too much. If it wasn't for the impact of Giro, I would have picked Basso as the rival to watch. yet if Basso does well after the hectic Giro, I will be even more convinced that juicing is involved.

If AC says anything, it gets filtered to non-Spanish speakers by google translate so even when he says anything it is largely dismissed because no one can agree on what he said!

It helps him out because if he said anything worth responding to, there will be 6 other people to offer their own interpretation. Google is his friend!

 

[reubenr]

Phil has always been a bit naive about things, but he's one of the nicest people I've ever met. He's always been a cheerleader. He was that way with LeMond, Hampsten, Millar, etc... He's also always taken the side of the riders until it was proven through testing or the rider admitted it, but I think that has more to do with his personality. He probably truly worries about offending the riders.

Liggett tries to immortalize every performance, and won't ever take a critical stand unless he personally feels assaulted. I mean... Harry Carey was one of the most loved baseball announcers of all time, and that guy bungled more names than George W. in his alcoholic days. While those who sit and cast a cynical eye towards the sport will tend to not appreciate this, I can say that he has a lot of appeal. My mother is no cycling fan, but loves listening to Phil, and I think that is his charm. Those who expect every commentator to be like Paul Kimmage might not like it, but for a sport that depends on sponsor endorsements for it's survival, it's bad business to sit there and will get you fired. Remember that Al Trautwig disappeared after 2007 when he openly questioned whether any riders of the past decade had been clean.

I think to work for a network like Vs. or any other in which you depend on sponsorships for your success, you have to make the sale. It rubs a lot of the purists the wrong way, but not everyone can watch the Tour online, and they have to sell their product to the masses in order to survive. Remember that OLN once carried all three GTs in splendid coverage back in the day, but when they changed management and the former president, who was a cycling enthusiast, resigned... we lost the great coverage and then we get wrap up shows with Hummy and Bobke at night to dumb it down even further.

The thing about Phil is that he tends to not editorialize about the riders in his commentary. When he's written articles or editorials, as he did back when he was the Int. Editor for CycleSport, you'd be surprised, but that side of him doesn't come out in his commentaries on television.

Sherwin, on the other hand, was one of Lance's best friends back before he had cancer... as the PR man for Motorola

You're right, your're right, your'r right, but, but, but Your Mr. Liggett, I recall quite vividly, stated out right in defending Armstrong's verbal attack on Contador that he had a lot to learn that Contador lacked "intelligence." Hmmm! The ultimate point of all of this is that they are not broadcasting the race as it is. They do not have a clue as to what is going on it. They are making everything up and it's way wrong. Give them the hook. Versus thinks that cycling is the same as rodeo. Did you see the Wild Boar, today? That was the highlight, since both Liggett and Sherwin identified it accurately. They must have lost their minds for a moment.

 

[Cerberus]

On talent (in the mountains) I would say that AC and AS are a bit matched up, and I was going to predict a close tour but after AS mouthing today after the stage, I have ruled him out, talks too much.

You're ruling Andy Schleck out as winner of the Tour because he takls to much? Seriously? If talking to much was an indicator of cycling failure Cavendish wouldn't have won as much as a parking lot crit.

 

[Anonymous]

A lot of pages to go through. Been reading back through the catalogue. This needs to be addressed now.

You all posting during the race are not giving your full attention to the race. Guess what that means...you're lacking perspective. I see many of you make idiotic and foolish comments, some which almost match Phil Liggett calling the Avoriaz climb Alpe D'Huez look tame.

Andy Schleck made an acceleration in the final few hundred metres. He is very motivated to win a stage. Big bro is out and he has never won a stage. First time he has lived up to his word on a climb that AC has been in and come off with a win. Not bad, Samuel Sanchez went with him. Contador looked to go and then paid attention to the rest of the group. They couldn't have cared about the win so neither did he. One Spaniard already up the road, if AC was on their wheels he'd be obliged to win. I presume he is spreading the love, letting everyone get a piece of the pie. He already has a nice chunk. Guess who looked like they were coasting the entire stage? AC, not Andy. Who has looked crap all season. AC or Andy? Andy. Who only just beat Samu? Andy. Has, AC beaten Samu this season? Hell yes and by more than a few centimetres. News flash. AC sat back on the final attack and bluffed everyone and I bet as I read on over the last 30 pages of this thread I will find most people misinterpreted the race finish. It meant nothing. All the top guys were there, except for the stage win.

Watch the race and then comment. AC finishing with Menchov, Evans and Basso makes sense. He is close to Menchov and Van den Broecke on GC. Guess who gets yellow when Evans loses it? Andy. Better to give him ten seconds and let him be closer to having his team protect yellow. Contador is very smart and aware. AC had the measure of Schleck in every major stage last year. Who has been strongest this year out of the GC guys? AC and then Evans. A sprint for a stage win, that is contested by only 2 riders who have never worn yellow or won a stage, is not a major indicator of how the race will unfold. Keep the fantasies coming guys. Andy Schleck went for a stage win, not to gain major time at the beginning of a climb. AC is still the one to beat. AC is waiting for the Pyrenees and can take time whenever he chooses.

Well done to Astana and also the two guys sprinting for the win. They did well. To the Shack. Great fail guys. This team will probably stuff up Levi's chances now. So much for Bottle talking them up...only he performed and he sucked wheels the entire way.

My top ten still is in place. I will make a substitute for the RS rider. Levi in for Lance. Heck when Lance first fell I thought he'd lose 3 minutes. Second time I thought he'd lose 5...but 12! Oh how the $h1t has hit the fan. Been a long time coming. Bad year for LA.

Talk about idiotic comments.

 

[perico]

You're right, your're right, your'r right, but, but, but Your Mr. Liggett, I recall quite vividly, stated out right in defending Armstrong's verbal attack on Contador that he had a lot to learn that Contador lacked "intelligence." Hmmm! The ultimate point of all of this is that they are not broadcasting the race as it is. They do not have a clue as to what is going on it. They are making everything up and it's way wrong. Give them the hook. Versus thinks that cycling is the same as rodeo. Did you see the Wild Boar, today? That was the highlight, since both Liggett and Sherwin identified it accurately. They must have lost their minds for a moment.

I'll actually respond to this seriously. The "attack" on Contador wasn't meant to be a personal attack, as it did come across. At the time, Phil didn't believe that he would win the tour against Armstrong because he didn't have the intelligence on the bike. It was harsh, but I get what he was trying to say because I'm not sitting there looking for reasons to hate on the guy. He was implying that in his eyes, Contador was a bit like a much more talented Jose Maria Jimenez (RIP), a guy with all the potential in the world who didn't ever win a GT because he wouldn't race a smart race. In his mind, Contador's victories had not been against the likes of Ullrich and Basso, but against Levi and Cuddles. He was wrong, so what?

I don't remember anyone crying about it when he was just about the only journalist to pick LeMond to win the 1989 Tour when no one else would, or that he was the only journalist who picked LeMond to be able to make up that distance in the final TT. He thought Armstrong would return stronger, and yes, that Alberto wouldn't have the tactical sense to respond. He was wrong. So what? Half the people here would not have picked Armstrong to finish in the top 3 last year. He's man enough to admit when he's wrong, considering that he picked Contador to win the Tour this year, unlike Roll who picked Armstrong again.

 

[Anonymous]

I've been asking for weeks now. If you have them, post them or please drop it. Proof of the blood profiles is needed. Start a thread and prove it. Cycling does not need any more sensationalist claims, of doping or clean riding. We've all seen and heard enough over the last 20 years.

Hey sweetie: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4607/Bassos-biological-passport-numbers-from-Giro-published.aspx

For someone who goes on and on with his pontifications and observations, you obviously miss well published information AND suck at google at the same time. There is your proof. Please also note that I WAS SUGGESTING THAT BASSO HAD THE TYPE OF PROFILE YOU WOULD EXPECT FROM SOMEONE RIDING CLEAN. So, not only are you a poorly informed fan, but you can't read either.

 

[Anonymous]

The were too far out. Andy and Samu went with a little more than 500 to go. Contador shut the first one down and the second and then realised what he was doing. His team did all the work apart from Sky and Saxo who all took minor turns. If he closed down his countryman, he is obligated to win the damn stage because his team did so much work on the last three climbs. Won't do that to a Spaniard of Samu's pedigree. Won't do that to Andy either. Also the profile of the stage tells me that this wasn't a likely win for AC with a bunch group as it wasn't steep enough. If it was the first cat 1 climb they finished on he would have won, but not Morzine Avoriaz. AC was watching Gesink because of the WC that is about to start. Roman made a move because Ivan was in severe pain. Both moves were too far out to let go. Did you see Ivans face? His face looked really funny.

Look at their faces and body language. Riders always copy their body language. A persons brain has only so many neural pathways. Once a form, or stance is memorised, they naturally adopt it when feeling a certain or particular way in a future. By this I mean when a rider is taking it easy, hurting or slightly under strain. Menchov is hard to read and so is AC. AC always looks like he is cruising. Cadel was only hurting near the end. Evans is very easy to read. He is good, so is Menchov and Samu. Gesink and Basso were in some real pain for most of the climb but held on. Good for them. Check out AC in the 2007 Tour, stage 16 if you want to see him in trouble. I haven't seen him look anything like that in 3 years. He was simply not being a selfish git and cheekily playing mind games with all the fans and riders. He is still super strong. His form and preparation suggest as much, more so than any other rider. Wait till the Pyrenees, Last year AC only made a move in the first mountains to shut down a leadership coup de etat within Astana's ranks. He has no need to make a move on day 8 this year. I thought for a second he "looked" weaker when he didn't catch Samu who was gapping Andy, but it was merely gamesmanship and being a good sport. AC was sharing the love. Alsot note that when Andy Schleck goes back in the peloton on a top 20 climb hge is checking people's form. He did it last year numerous times and he did it today. Smart man. He knew he could win today if he waited till late, just like Alpe D'Huez in 2008. Make a move in the later half of the last km on the first real mountain stage and most will let you go, especially when your chrono is that of AS.

I forgot Samu has a punch and that Andy was motivated. I always expect the big name to do his stuff. AC is really smart and knows there is a time and place to make his move. Today wasn't it. 10 seconds means little. The Giro last year and this year had similar group finishes of numerous GC guys in the early mountain stages. The Tour did last year on Arcalis if one excludes AC's ball busting move that nabbed 20 seconds. Looks like those big pulls will come in the Pyrenees.

Really happy that all the guys I picked months back are all on song. All of them. They were all in the front group. Not surprised Wigans was dropped either. Thought he'd lose less though. Sky looked good pulling on the front, but with Wigans limitations it was really stupid.

More stupid commentary. Dang, you are full of FAIL today.

 

[Galic Ho]

Talk about idiotic comments.

You've had hundreds. I have one sentence out of a very long post which you chose to highlight. I'll take it as a complement. Quit trolling (it took you a long time to notice and comment) and get back to the Lance hating.

 

[Anonymous]

Galic Ho, it was Sean Kelly's opinion that AC couldn't follow Shleck...

watching, it definitely looked like he tried and couldn't.

AS should have gone a lot earlier if he was feeling that good in his legs. Not gonna put time into someone is last kilometre....

Oh no, that couldn't be. Galic Ho knows how to read races better than anyone...

 

[ulrikmm]

Of course seconds do not count in the GC. The GC is often won by hours (at least it was 100 years ago).

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I actually didn't find Andy's comments arrogant at all today. He seemed pretty normal. Saying he felt he had to get more time into AC if he could before the final TT, but was mostly just happy for the stage win. Compare this to his whining earlier in the Tour...

AC did give a pre-stage interview with Versus today in English. I think that's the most English I've ever heard from him, though others have said he speaks it fairly well. I do agree though that whatever the language, he was very classy.

Great win for Andy and to see Cadel in the MJ. Should be some fun days to come!

 

[bobs nob]

Hey sweetie: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4607/Bassos-biological-passport-numbers-from-Giro-published.aspx

For someone who goes on and on with his pontifications and observations, you obviously miss well published information AND suck at google at the same time. There is your proof. Please also note that I WAS SUGGESTING THAT BASSO HAD THE TYPE OF PROFILE YOU WOULD EXPECT FROM SOMEONE RIDING CLEAN. So, not only are you a poorly informed fan, but you can't read either.

LOL! Holy sh|t. Someone ate his wheaties this morning!

 

[Anonymous]

That's what he said.

Oh no, that can't be. Galic Ho says he could have followed if he wanted. How could Contador possibly know more than the genius that is Galic Ho. What an idiot that Contador is to think he didn't have the legs to follow....