Stapleton calls on people to look to the future, not the past

[filipo]

Glad you're not on my jury, because when I was 24 I was told that I needed to have braces. No, I didn't have pituitary problems or take PEDs.

Yeah, the braces=HGH argument is pretty idiotic. I'm 37 and would love to have my teeth fixed -- for the second time -- thanks to bad orthodonture in my teens, overly large wisdom teeth in my 20's, and the effects of both slowly pushing my jaw leftward over the years. And I ain't never done no HGH. Neither have the 7 or 8 (adult, 20s & 30s) friends of mine who've gotten braces recently.

There are some quite solid reasons to believe Cav's on some sort of drugs, but to argue the braces prove it severely weakens that position.

 

[Galic Ho]

Glad you're not on my jury, because when I was 24 I was told that I needed to have braces. No, I didn't have pituitary problems or take PEDs.

You need to listen to what was said and put into context. I said there were no obvious economic reasons preventing Cav having work if his teeth were bad at a younger age. Why not get them then if your teeth are bad? Because they weren't a problem when he was younger. Next

Yeah, the braces=HGH argument is pretty idiotic. I'm 37 and would love to have my teeth fixed -- for the second time -- thanks to bad orthodonture in my teens, overly large wisdom teeth in my 20's, and the effects of both slowly pushing my jaw leftward over the years. And I ain't never done no HGH. Neither have the 7 or 8 (adult, 20s & 30s) friends of mine who've gotten braces recently.

There are some quite solid reasons to believe Cav's on some sort of drugs, but to argue the braces prove it severely weakens that position.

You never related it back to Cav. Try harder dude. Your friends and your own toothing problems mean sweet F*^K all. It is about Cav's mouth. I detailed the reasons why he could have gotten them done at an earlier age, which most people do. All my friends who needed them done, had them done when we were 13, 14 and 15. Over a decade ago. Braces are cheaper and superior these days.

As for wisdom teeth. Most people have them removed. I had teeth removed when I had braces to leave room for the wisdom teeth to come through. They did when I was young, like 16/17. Some never get them. If Cav has braces for wisdom teeth, again the question needs to be asked why now? Why not when you are a teen, like most people. I have friends who also got braces. Those who had wisdom teeth problems lost the braces and had to go back when they were 23, 24, 25 and get them removed. Why? Because the orthodontist can tell if they will be a problem later on and sets a plan in place. Note my friends who had wisdom teeth issues did not get braces in their twenties. They got them 10 years earlier. Cav got his braces for alignment problems as do 99% of people. Wisdom teeth problems combined with braces at 24 years of age actually makes for a stronger case for HGH abuse. Thanks for showing your age...you helped my point.

Also with the movement in your jaw. There are many procedures used a decade after you left your teens...techniques that I still have in place in my mouth that prevent any major movement of teeth post braces removal. You'd know this if you received them. You sound like you were ripped off or had a bad orthodontist. Sounds like your mouth is a product of the technology available in your youth. Cav falls outside your bracket because of his age...try harder next time to a motive for getting braces. Still does not address why he suddenly needed braces. Why not in 2007? Because his mouth either went from good to bad, or from bearable to unbearable (aka, kind of bad to terrible) in a matter of a few years. A few years where he won lots of races and made people look very slow. All signs of HGH.

 

[Polish]

I would argue the EPO use on Cyrille Guimard's 2010 Roubaix-Lille-Metropole Team is worse than the 1998 EPO use on Team Festina.

Worse because this is 2010 for crying out loud.
"Everyone is doing it" is no longer applicable.

The EPO use on Cyrille Guimard's 2010 Roubaix-Lille-Metropole Team is certainly worse than the doping on his 1980's era Renault team.

So I think Mr Stapleton is wrong when he says " the guys who are growing up in a different generation of the sport. This sport has made remarkable, objective progress since Floyd Landis."

The "new generation" is the worse than it has ever been...

Why can't the new generation dudes be more like the old farts?
Fausto, Eddy, Sean, Herman...

 

[filipo]

You need to listen to what was said and put into context. I said there were no obvious economic reasons preventing Cav having work if his teeth were bad at a younger age. Why not get them then if your teeth are bad? Because they weren't a problem when he was younger. Next



You never related it back to Cav. Try harder dude. Your friends and your own toothing problems mean sweet F*^K all. It is about Cav's mouth. I detailed the reasons why he could have gotten them done at an earlier age, which most people do. All my friends who needed them done, had them done when we were 13, 14 and 15. Over a decade ago. Braces are cheaper and superior these days.

As for wisdom teeth. Most people have them removed. I had teeth removed when I had braces to leave room for the wisdom teeth to come through. They did when I was young, like 16/17. Some never get them. If Cav has braces for wisdom teeth, again the question needs to be asked why now? Why not when you are a teen, like most people. I have friends who also got braces. Those who had wisdom teeth problems lost the braces and had to go back when they were 23, 24, 25 and get them removed. Why? Because the orthodontist can tell if they will be a problem later on and sets a plan in place. Note my friends who had wisdom teeth issues did not get braces in their twenties. They got them 10 years earlier. Cav got his braces for alignment problems as do 99% of people. Wisdom teeth problems combined with braces at 24 years of age actually makes for a stronger case for HGH abuse. Thanks for showing your age...you helped my point.

Also with the movement in your jaw. There are many procedures used a decade after you left your teens...techniques that I still have in place in my mouth that prevent any major movement of teeth post braces removal. You'd know this if you received them. You sound like you were ripped off or had a bad orthodontist. Sounds like your mouth is a product of the technology available in your youth. Cav falls outside your bracket because of his age...try harder next time to a motive for getting braces. Still does not address why he suddenly needed braces. Why not in 2007? Because his mouth either went from good to bad, or from bearable to unbearable (aka, kind of bad to terrible) in a matter of a few years. A few years where he won lots of races and made people look very slow. All signs of HGH.

Good luck with this argument. It sure looks like a winner.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I have several friends from...let's just say island nations in the northwest of Europe who aren't renowned for great teeth or superb dentistry...who have had braces well into their late 20's and early thirties. They finally came into enough money to make it worthwhile, and lived in the US where most folks have straight teeth. Not sure how that would be any different for Cavendish.

Let's not get carried away and accuse people of doping because they have their teeth fixed. Kind of hurts the credibility of other doping arguments. Just MO.

100% agree. But I would still not he surprised if Cav was hgh'd.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I would argue the EPO use on Cyrille Guimard's 2010 Roubaix-Lille-Metropole Team is worse than the 1998 EPO use on Team Festina.

Worse because this is 2010 for crying out loud.
"Everyone is doing it" is no longer applicable.

The EPO use on Cyrille Guimard's 2010 Roubaix-Lille-Metropole Team is certainly worse than the doping on his 1980's era Renault team.

So I think Mr Stapleton is wrong when he says " the guys who are growing up in a different generation of the sport. This sport has made remarkable, objective progress since Floyd Landis."

The "new generation" is the worse than it has ever been...

Why can't the new generation dudes be more like the old farts?
Fausto, Eddy, Sean, Herman...

I find it interesting that Stapleton uses "since Floyd Landis", as if he is some milestone that served as the turning point.

The show must go on. New cast, same script.

 

[theswordsman]

I wonder if Stapleton understands that Floyd is talking about the present. The players are all still here.

All of these guys who've made money off the sport for years, as riders, or management, or media, are trying to tell us fans what we want from the sport. If he thinks people who are riding for health or pleasure now will quit because some cheaters were caught - that's ridiculous. They're telling us we shouldn't be concerned about things that happened some years ago. Guess what, a few years up the road, they'll be saying the same thing about now.

I hope this gets huge. But I'm still really looking forward to the Dauphine, the Tour de Suissem and the big one, preferably without Armstrong or Bruyneel.

 

[theswordsman]

He can't. Too late for Frodo as the HGH has already made his mandible jaw grow and hence the braces. How many 24 year olds need braces in their twenties but not in their teens? None. Frodo has been on the growth drugs and his mouth has grown and his tooth alignment is now uber messed up. Hence the Braces. Stapleton could stop him but the damage has been done.

For a couple of recent years, I was in an MBA program with a 40 year old Air Force colonel. He'd obviously had access to dental care for the twenty years or whatever he was in the Air Force, especially as an officer. But he got braces about a year into his MBA. It might have had something to do with the 22 year old women he was spending time with because of the program.

I read a good article (I lost every damned link I had when my computer was attacked, sorry) about all the stuff Cav had been through this winter - lots of stuff I didn't hear elsewhere about his brother calling and asking to borrow a suit for a job interview, Cav blowing him off, and his brother later ending up in jail. He didn't give details, but said he had his teeth fixed for cosmetic reasons. If I was looking for his motivation, I think breaking up with the fiance who was used to those teeth and replacing her with an Italian ssupermodel might just do it for me. I'd break out the Crest White Strips.

 

[Creatine Bob]

I hesitated to post because the person who created this thread has been banned and I would rather not be banned as well.

I think Stapleton gives some good advice, as there are many who do not want to move forward.

 

[ExRower]

what we need to do is move forward without ignoring the past.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think it's good that Stapleton at least gives some credence and sympathy to Floyd, but he says two things I think are mistaken. First is that we tried many times in the past to "look forward" and it's gotten us only to the next doping sclandal, as Red Flanders says, from Festina, to Puerto, to Landis, etc.

Stapleton also says "since Landis" like racing has been clean since then, and that's a huge crock of doo doo. How many doping violations, sanctions, or scandals since then do I have to list that have taken place in the last four years to show it's been just as dirty as before? This year's Giro is maybe the first cleanish GT I've seen in I don't know how long.

I also don't think it's fair to say "since Landis" like he was the doper. The more we look back at 2006, the more apparent that it wasn't just Floyd jacked on T for one big stage. He, like most everyone he was racing against, was doped on a big program, just as much as everyone else who was caught before, and since. And if you believe Floyd (and I generally do), many who weren't caught as well.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Should Henri Pelissier be disqualified for his Tour victory of 1923, for using cocain, strychnin and chloroform?

That would go a bit far. But after Festina 1998 there were clear rules and promises about the "new cycling". People who used EPO or blood doping after 1998 should definitely be disqualified.

 

[Galic Ho]

For a couple of recent years, I was in an MBA program with a 40 year old Air Force colonel. He'd obviously had access to dental care for the twenty years or whatever he was in the Air Force, especially as an officer. But he got braces about a year into his MBA. It might have had something to do with the 22 year old women he was spending time with because of the program.

I read a good article (I lost every damned link I had when my computer was attacked, sorry) about all the stuff Cav had been through this winter - lots of stuff I didn't hear elsewhere about his brother calling and asking to borrow a suit for a job interview, Cav blowing him off, and his brother later ending up in jail. He didn't give details, but said he had his teeth fixed for cosmetic reasons. If I was looking for his motivation, I think breaking up with the fiance who was used to those teeth and replacing her with an Italian ssupermodel might just do it for me. I'd break out the Crest White Strips.

My explanation was one of several possible scenarios. I'm not saying it is correct but it does cover most of the bases. You'll find in most western countries these days most people with even minor teeth issues get them fixed young. It is better whilst the body is still growing. Dental care in the US forces often does not cover braces. Fillings and cleanings, but nothing expensive. It is the gen Y bunch who often missed out on braces, because they were really expensive in the 80s to procure. Those aged in their mid 30s to early 40s. The mid 90s and advances in orthodontics meant lots of people my age, the generation X group, could get access to decent dental correction services relatively cheaply.

Cav is not immune from that group, or an exception. He had access. If the British Cycling Team is anything like the Aussie one (which it is, they borrow ideas everywhere) it is well within reason, that if Cav had really bad teeth, the work would have been covered by their medical program. They cover everything else (massages, injury rehabilitation, laser eye correction, breathing correction), teeth should be on the list because they cost roughly the same amount. Assume what you want after this...I did. Just trying to understand why nothing was done earlier. You don't just wake up and realise how bad your teeth are whilst preening and gazing into the mirror...least of all with Cav's ego. HGH explains partly why. It could have made his teeth, that had minor issues, go really bad, really quickly.

Will we ever know? Never.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There are enough threads discussing Cavs mouth and its size and what comes out of it .....to get us back on track (pun intended!)

Again Stapleton has said what they all have - conveniently ignoring that most of the named riders, team owners and officials are still in the sport.

How can the GM of a team that purports to be the clean dream team not be outraged that the UCI can be given bribes?

For me there is only one plausible answer.

 

[trailrunner]

You need to listen to what was said and put into context. I said there were no obvious economic reasons preventing Cav having work if his teeth were bad at a younger age. Why not get them then if your teeth are bad? Because they weren't a problem when he was younger. Next

...a lot of silly speculation snipped...

I listened to exactly what you said, which was if somebody needs braces when he is 24 then that's evidence that he has taken HGH. I provided one counter example, which you didn't refute. Discuss how my counter example fits in with your theory and we'll have a meaningful discussion.

BTW, you're not a dentist or orthodontist, so you should keep you silly theories to yourself. You don't know what you are talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_mccarthy

 

[Sydney Sider]

As stupid as this sounds i think the longer these allegations stay in the spotlight the better . With Lance being involved its going to get the full media spotlight from outlets that normally wouldnt give a rats a**e about cycling.

With that in mind surely the governing bodies will be under more pressure to act accordingly and show they are taking the allegations seriously , they have sponsors dollars to think bout and there is already enough of a stigma about professional cycling being a drug fueled sport ( I agree myself).They have to protect what image they have left. I suppose on the opposite side they could protect Lance as they see him as the image on the other hand (hopefully not) .

 

[python]

i think people misunderstood stapleton.

looking into the future referred to the other 2 emails landis never made public yet.

the near future - email #2 gets released at the tours start.

 

[marcozero]

Should Henri Pelissier be disqualified for his Tour victory of 1923, for using cocain, strychnin and chloroform?

No, because at the time taking this stuff was not banned, not tolerated, but almost encouraged. It was considered a necessity to compete.

Doping has been allowed for such a long time that it is indeed part of the cycling culture, probably more than in other sports.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Didn't Frodo claim to have had his dental work done in Paraguay? Seems an awfully long way to go for a dentist. A bit like going to Mexico or Tenerife for the mountains.

I don't see how Stapleton can lecture us about looking forward when he employs old dopers unrepentant like Aldag, Zabel etc

 

[Mambo95]

Didn't Frodo claim to have had his dental work done in Paraguay? Seems an awfully long way to go for a dentist. A bit like going to Mexico or Tenerife for the mountains.

His girlfriend is from Paraguay. But don't let the bleeding obvious get in the way of your conspiracies.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

You're a bit touchy aren't you. It doesn't explain why he'd go all the way to the other side of the world for some cosmetic dentistry. A romantic break and some tooth removal...

Don't let your fanboy fantasies get in the way of reality. The Manx Hobbit overcooked the HGH last year and is paying the price this year.

 

[ExRower]

this is one of the reasons why doping has to be recognized and addressed and the UCI cleaned up. Now, anyone who puts out a good performance is suspected by some to be doping. This is poisoning our sport!

 

[Mambo95]

You're a bit touchy aren't you. It doesn't explain why he'd go all the way to the other side of the world for some cosmetic dentistry. A romantic break and some tooth removal...

Don't let your fanboy fantasies get in the way of reality. The Manx Hobbit overcooked the HGH last year and is paying the price this year.

He didn't go all the way there to have dental surgery - he went to meet the in-laws. It was probably a convenient time to get his teeth fixed. They have good dentists in Paraguay too, and his girlfriend, being a model, probably knows a good one. It was probably cheap too.

Why do you think he had the work done there? He had braces on for a few months - it was hardly a big secret?

I didn't argue anywhere that he's clean. But you implied that a visit to the in-laws and a trip to the dentist was evidence of some grand doping plan. Are you that desparate to get your doping fix that you're over analysing mundane activities. Who's the one with fantasies here?

 

[Anonymous]

pretty much the same thing from hincapie today.. no denial, just lets look to the future

“Whoever wants to talk about something eight years ago, fine, they can waste their time on that,” Hincapie said. “I want to talk about the future of the sport and the sacrifices we put into it.”

Hincapie addressed the accusations, saying he was disappointed to learn what Landis had accused him of, claims that included blood doping.

“I would like to say that there isn’t anybody out there, whether it’s the press, the fans or Usada, that wants a clean sport more than me,” he said. “I’m out there suffering, day in and day out. I sacrifice everything for my family. I don’t see my kids that much. I train five, six, seven hours a day, and I’d give anything for this sport.”

He went on to say that cycling does more to combat doping than any other sport and that it bothers him that people may think the riders are still cheating. He said he did not think he deserved what Landis said about him.

“I’m not the type of person that tries to bring harm on anybody,” he said. “I’ve led my life by trying to be a good person, by trying to be a good example, by trying to set an example.”

link

 

[thehog]

pretty much the same thing from hincapie today.. no denial, just lets look to the future

“Whoever wants to talk about something eight years ago, fine, they can waste their time on that,” Hincapie said. “I want to talk about the future of the sport and the sacrifices we put into it.”

Hincapie addressed the accusations, saying he was disappointed to learn what Landis had accused him of, claims that included blood doping.

“I would like to say that there isn’t anybody out there, whether it’s the press, the fans or Usada, that wants a clean sport more than me,” he said. “I’m out there suffering, day in and day out. I sacrifice everything for my family. I don’t see my kids that much. I train five, six, seven hours a day, and I’d give anything for this sport.”

He went on to say that cycling does more to combat doping than any other sport and that it bothers him that people may think the riders are still cheating. He said he did not think he deserved what Landis said about him.

“I’m not the type of person that tries to bring harm on anybody,” he said. “I’ve led my life by trying to be a good person, by trying to be a good example, by trying to set an example.”

link

Thanks.

That’s the sort of statement you issue before the truth comes out that you’ve been doping 85% of your career. He knows its coming.