State of the Peloton 2024

[zlev11]

Sean Kelly it appears no longer gives a f***

https://twitter.com/x/status/1829529353027506202

(Rich from him I know but hilarious to hear on a broadcast)

sounds more like he's complaining about how hard the route is rather than anything to do with doping, no?

 

[peterfin]

Three guys from a wildcard team in the top 10 of a demanding GT stage: "Not normal" would Armstrong say and he knew obviously the difference between normal and not normal. If it is normal, it is truly remarkeable. First a 23 yo rider with two amazing wins but who at least showed something earlier this year and last year. He could have been an outlier, a huge talent that suddenly has everything going for him. But now we need to add a 26 and 24 yo rider who really have nothing to show for prior to this summer. I really want to know the stories behind those riders that give their performance at least some credibility. As a fan of the sport it really starts to give me bad vibes. That feeling is what many start to feel since this summer I guess.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Three guys from a wildcard team in the top 10 of a demanding GT stage: "Not normal" would Armstrong say and he knew obviously the difference between normal and not normal. If it is normal, it is truly remarkeable. First a 23 yo rider with two amazing wins but who at least showed something earlier this year and last year. He could have been an outlier, a huge talent that suddenly has everything going for him. But now we need to add a 26 and 24 yo rider who really have nothing to show for prior to this summer. I really want to know the stories behind those riders that give their performance at least some credibility. As a fan of the sport it really starts to give me bad vibes. That feeling is what many start to feel since this summer I guess.

I got the feeling since Covid first hit, something strange started happening already back then. Not enough anti-doping officials or testing maybe? Or maybe intentionally not popping the big teams because that would be bad for business?

 

[Froome]

I'm looking forward to see Vingegaard without bad luck and a perfect preparation with this new magic potion that Visma will use and improve, for the next year.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

I'm looking forward to see Vingegaard without bad luck and a perfect preparation with this new magic potion that Visma will use and improve, for the next year.

A healthy Vingo, Pog, and now Slimco too...



Whatever they are on I'd like to harness that energy for something useful.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I'm looking forward to see Vingegaard without bad luck and a perfect preparation with this new magic potion that Visma will use and improve, for the next year.

It’ll be crazy af if Visma and UAE take us too even more heights. They might need to attach parachutes to Pog and Vinge so they can safely get back down after flying off the mountain top.

 

[E_F_]

It’ll be crazy af if Visma and UAE take us too even more heights. They might need to attach parachutes to Pog and Vinge so they can safely get back down after flying off the mountain top.

There's a pattern of them increasing their level massively from year to year...

 

[search]

I got the feeling since Covid first hit, something strange started happening already back then.

so it all started with Hirschi, you mean?

I honestly see the Vuelta more as lower level, late season race, so it'x not super unusual to have unexpected results - guys like Marczynski, Storer or Vine won multiple stages "out of nowhere" as well, for examble. But it for sure is a very remarkable performace by Kern Pharma so far, even considering that its their absolute highlight of the season, while most others are waiting for their holiday to begin.

 

[Froome]

It’ll be crazy af if Visma and UAE take us too even more heights. They might need to attach parachutes to Pog and Vinge so they can safely get back down after flying off the mountain top.

This will only stop when the authorities decide to do something. Until then, Visma will want to raise the bar next year. It wasn't just the crashes, they were surpassed by emirates this year, on this war of magic potion.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

What's happening is wild right now. I mean, this sh!t is crazy.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It’ll be crazy af if Visma and UAE take us too even more heights. They might need to attach parachutes to Pog and Vinge so they can safely get back down after flying off the mountain top.

Can't wait to Teddy vs Skeletor season 2025. We will see what our heros and their medical dream teams have in store. There'll be no holding back, that's for sure!

 

[Escarabajo]

It’ll be crazy af if Visma and UAE take us too even more heights. They might need to attach parachutes to Pog and Vinge so they can safely get back down after flying off the mountain top.

Well, in the 90's there was a doctor who called the UCI to warn them to stop the nonsense or at least to add some better controls before people start getting hurt. The suggestion at that moment was the hematocrit level max. That was because of a lack of a good test for the EPO.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Can't wait to Teddy vs Skeletor season 2025. We will see what our heros and their medical dream teams have in store. There'll be no holding back, that's for sure!

Until the wattages get so high that their bodies overheat and the fever gets too high...

Btw, what happened to Landa today and yesterday? Dropped on a cat. 4 yesterday, but 5th today on the MTF. Side effects from re-fueling?

 

[zlev11]

so it all started with Hirschi, you mean?

I honestly see the Vuelta more as lower level, late season race, so it'x not super unusual to have unexpected results - guys like Marczynski, Storer or Vine won multiple stages "out of nowhere" as well, for examble. But it for sure is a very remarkable performace by Kern Pharma so far, even considering that its their absolute highlight of the season, while most others are waiting for their holiday to begin.

yes it makes a bit more sense when you consider that Kern has probably targeted the Vuelta the entire season. they're only winning from breakaways. the 2nd Castrillo win was wild, but the other two wins not so much. most of the riders in those breakaways are at the end of a long season in their 2nd grand tour of the year.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Ilkhan Dostiyev (Astana Dev) popped for CERA, old school.

Notably won Turul Romaniei and 2nd behind Widar in Valle d'Aosta, he was actually good, now I guess we know why.

Some of those lads have been absolutely flying recently, they Gewiss'd a mountain stage in Romania.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Ilkhan Dostiyev (Astana Dev) popped for CERA, old school.

Notably won Turul Romaniei and 2nd behind Widar in Valle d'Aosta, he was actually good, now I guess we know why.

Some of those lads have been absolutely flying recently, they Gewiss'd a mountain stage in Romania.

Finally we got a rider testing positive for the real good stuff, although he will probably still blame it on having shared a tissue with a soigneur, who had treated a nosebleed with their grandmother's homemade fungal cream.

 

[zlev11]

there we go, they got em. peloton clean now.

 

[ingsve]

I just listened to a podcast with Jörgen Nordhagen. It was a skiing podcast but they ended up talking a lot about cycling and one thing that Nordhagen said stood out to me.

They were talking about eating habits and how many skiers are not very professional in their fuelling and sort of just go by feel rather than a strict nutritionist diet and especially refuelling during races. Nordhagen said that this was also more common in cycling like 20 years ago and since then the peloton has become a lot more professional in terms of what they eat and how much and what they eat during races etc. He said that this is likely a reason for the numbers that the top cyclists are putting out these days.

How does that sound to you? Are Pog and Vingegaard and the lot able to put out the watts they do simply because they have far better control over their fuel intake than past generations had?

Here is a link to the podcast: https://t.co/cH3paREbym

 

[Froome]

I just listened to a podcast with Jörgen Nordhagen. It was a skiing podcast but they ended up talking a lot about cycling and one thing that Nordhagen said stood out to me.

They were talking about eating habits and how many skiers are not very professional in their fuelling and sort of just go by feel rather than a strict nutritionist diet and especially refuelling during races. Nordhagen said that this was also more common in cycling like 20 years ago and since then the peloton has become a lot more professional in terms of what they eat and how much and what they eat during races etc. He said that this is likely a reason for the numbers that the top cyclists are putting out these days.

How does that sound to you? Are Pog and Vingegaard and the lot able to put out the watts they do simply because they have far better control over their fuel intake than past generations had?

Here is a link to the podcast: https://t.co/cH3paREbym

Nordhagen is so young, but he already knows how to tell the usual BS.

Lance Armstrong should recover his seven Tours de France.

 

[Sciatic]

I just listened to a podcast with Jörgen Nordhagen. It was a skiing podcast but they ended up talking a lot about cycling and one thing that Nordhagen said stood out to me.

They were talking about eating habits and how many skiers are not very professional in their fuelling and sort of just go by feel rather than a strict nutritionist diet and especially refuelling during races. Nordhagen said that this was also more common in cycling like 20 years ago and since then the peloton has become a lot more professional in terms of what they eat and how much and what they eat during races etc. He said that this is likely a reason for the numbers that the top cyclists are putting out these days.

How does that sound to you? Are Pog and Vingegaard and the lot able to put out the watts they do simply because they have far better control over their fuel intake than past generations had?

Here is a link to the podcast: https://t.co/cH3paREbym

Sounds like some of the justifications made during past eras for faster times . . . Spinning (Armstrong), pillows and hand washing (Sky), etc

if there’s one thing the better nutrition should do is help them get sick less, but there’s no evidence of that.

 

[ingsve]

Nordhagen is so young, but he already knows how to tell the usual BS.

Lance Armstrong should recover his seven Tours de France.

My guess is he's simply repeating what people in his team are saying.

 

[ingsve]

Sounds like some of the justifications made during past eras for faster times . . . Spinning (Armstrong), pillows and hand washing (Sky), etc

if there’s one thing the better nutrition should do is help them get sick less, but there’s no evidence of that.

If we just go by the basic claim made, has the way riders refuel before and especially during a race changed much in the past 20 years? Did they keep strict control over calorie targets each hour of racing or did rider go more by feel rather than planning back then? How has the food they eat changed? From recollection there were gels back then as well right or was it still the days of white bread and jam etc.? Or when did the gels enter the peloton? Has gels and the other stuff they eat changed much during this time?

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I just listened to a podcast with Jörgen Nordhagen. It was a skiing podcast but they ended up talking a lot about cycling and one thing that Nordhagen said stood out to me.

They were talking about eating habits and how many skiers are not very professional in their fuelling and sort of just go by feel rather than a strict nutritionist diet and especially refuelling during races. Nordhagen said that this was also more common in cycling like 20 years ago and since then the peloton has become a lot more professional in terms of what they eat and how much and what they eat during races etc. He said that this is likely a reason for the numbers that the top cyclists are putting out these days.

How does that sound to you? Are Pog and Vingegaard and the lot able to put out the watts they do simply because they have far better control over their fuel intake than past generations had?

Here is a link to the podcast: https://t.co/cH3paREbym

This explanation has been given for quite a while now, apparently more consistent intake of more carbs at the right time is supposed to do most of the trick, if I remember correctly.

The problem is: this kind of explanation tends to come up when stuff needs to be explained away. Give a good sounding answer, so the question dies in infancy. More professionallism, better nutrition, more modern training methods has been the explanation more or less every single time why performances are clean, or much better than historical performances.
It's just that these explanations usually turned out to cover stories for actual Doping. Even the old "lactate threshhold" story from the Lance days has returned and is being applied to Pogacar to explain some of his dominance. Basically they are saying that they are much better than the EPO days now, because of bread and water at the exactly right times, plus good sleep, altitude camps and "more science" or more recently magical gains as promoted by Sky.

 

[ingsve]

This explanation has been given for quite a while now, apparently more consistent intake of more carbs at the right time is supposed to do most of the trick, if I remember correctly.

The problem is: this kind of explanation tends to come up when stuff needs to be explained away. Give a good sounding answer, so the question dies in infancy. More professionallism, better nutrition, more modern training methods has been the explanation more or less every single time why performances are clean, or much better than historical performances.
It's just that these explanations usually turned out to cover stories for actual Doping. Even the old "lactate threshhold" story from the Lance days has returned and is being applied to Pogacar to explain some of his dominance. Basically they are saying that they are much better than the EPO days now, because of bread and water at the exactly right times, plus good sleep, altitude camps and "more science" or more recently magical gains as promoted by Sky.

Still, even with the suspicions that will always exist in this sport, that type of evolution in results over time which is said to be due to better training, better material etc. is seen in most sports, so why wouldn't it be just as true in cycling?

Or perhaps the answer is simply that all other sports are just as crooked and the reason Mondo Duplantis keeps breaking the pole vault record multiple times per year is simply due to better doping.

 

[peterfin]

The problem with focusing on more fine-tuned eating habits is that it doesn't explain climb performances that are at or above the limits what is physically possible in optimal conditions. It can explain an increase in average performance of the peleton and as such metrics such as average peleton speed could see some improvements but the impact should be less on individuals who are already maximizing their output.