State of the Peloton 2024

[houtdffan]

he does make many good points and calls the teams by their legacy names

the names of the historic doping teams of the past. Though for some reason he does not call QS Mapei...

 

[Mayomaniac]

he does make many good points and calls the teams by their legacy names

the names of the historic doping teams of the past. Though for some reason he does not call QS Mapei...

Has called Evenepoel a Mapei rider/Lefevre the team owner of Mapei before.

 

[Peyroteo94]

People should have a look on Strava, and compare Nibali's Giro winning stage of 2016 to the power outputs on Vars, Bonette and Isola 2000 in 2024.

Buitrago, who's like 5kg lighter than Nibali does like 10% more W (not W/kg) for the whole stage on average and he finishes minutes down.

Based on your post, do you believe Pogacar has a FTP of 7 w/kg?

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't really understand what this has to do with my comment. And I don't understand at all why you care so much about his FTP

It's pretty irrelevant.

Because in Nibali era, doing 6 w/kg during one hour was otherworldly numbers. I think nowadays, Pogacar and Vingegaard can perform 0,7 -0,8 w/kg higher than in Nibali era. Froome's ride to LPSM was less than 6,2 w/kg.

 

[Peyroteo94]

2010 Cancellara would be OTL in 2024 PR. That's insane.

 

[houtdffan]

Has called Evenepoel a Mapei rider/Lefevre the team owner of Mapei before.

Ah, I missed that then

 

[E_F_]

Anyone want to start an investigative collaboration to get closer to the bottom of all this? Perhaps even ask some questions of relevant organizations and individuals? I have a silly acronym for it! Association of Curious Cycling Enthusiasts Substantiating Suspicions.

 

[troll hunter]

People should have a look on Strava, and compare Nibali's Giro winning stage of 2016 to the power outputs on Vars, Bonette and Isola 2000 in 2024.

Buitrago, who's like 5kg lighter than Nibali does like 10% more W (not W/kg) for the whole stage on average and he finishes minutes down.

Get a bike, start testing a quality SRM product that Nibali used and compare it to the crappy Shimano that Santi used and you will surely get two different results.

 

[Rob5091]

An interesting 2024 paper -
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11414593/

The presence of lactate during fatigue is inevitable, but it more seems like a self-defense mechanism of a human body to survive high stress, than the main cause of fatigue.

Question then is, what is the "main cause of fatigue"?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Have word from an extremely reliable looking Colombian propaganda news source that Superman has launched his appeal and is looking to compete again, he is still out there training so keep on hoping.

¡Hay esperanza! ‘Supermán’ López podría volver a competir a pesar de la dura sanción que acarrea

El ciclista colombiano, oriundo de Boyacá, está a la espera del dictamen del Tribunal respecto a su apelación.

www.colombia.com

Who could possibly doubt 'Colombia.com'

 

[peterfin]

An interesting 2024 paper -
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11414593/



Question then is, what is the "main cause of fatigue"?

Energy depletion of ATP and glycogen stores?

 

[peterfin]

Clicky bait or actual info?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847337675814039733

View: https://x.com/unclecycling/status/1847337675814039733?s=19

CyclingHighlights
@unclecycling

"Since 45 days I know one of the biggest doping secrets in World Tour. It will be disappointing for a lot of fans who think actual cycling is clean. But I have to wait guys, that’s how it works. This info has a great value but we don’t sell nothing to the press."

In the comments he basically says that he knows small fish ("Landis") but is now building evidence for his big fish ("Lance"). Apparantly he has been in discussion with mou as well who says in the comments that he is eager to supply him with any info showing Pogi is clean. According to mou it's more realistic that the pope would mary in the Saint Peter's cathedral than Pogi doping

 

[Casual cyclist]

In the comments he basically says that he knows small fish ("Landis") but is now building evidence for his big fish ("Lance"). Apparantly he has been in discussion with mou as well who says in the comments that he is eager to supply him with any info showing Pogi is clean. According to mou it's more realistic that the pope would mary in the Saint Peter's cathedral than Pogi doping

That could actually be true, at least during this season. As we have seen with our own eyes, he did not have to push on those pedals all that hard, smiling and chatting with camera guys while on the attack. Indeed, why damage own health with chemicals if the little "secret" inside the bike does much of the required work?

A little addendum: that must be the same insider mou who secretly let us. this past winter, on "Pogi' switching from the country bumpkin Maxtin as coach to a "real" one who was going to have him do some intervals on top of the famous "zone 2" easy pedaling. So we, as warned my Mr. Insider, had better be not too surprised if 'Pogi' showed a newb-like improvements (like 10% or more instantly). So, we heeded said warning and, when 'Pogi' did that 80k solo, just shrugged our shoulders saying "yeah, expected, he has just started training like a serious amateur." So let's wait until he starts training like a professional, you know, with a power meter and stuff... And let us not act surprised when he adds another 10% next year. All thanks to mou. It feels really good to be informed. I just hate that feeling of being a fool in the dark.

 

[Nick2413]

There's at least anecdotal evidence in ultra endurance athletes that fatigue, presumably at lower intensities, is also highly psychological and people can just blast through levels of fatigue they didn't think was possible at all.

I agree and would be interested in reading more on this if there is a source/studies

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Muscular damage and glycogen shortage. I think in extreme exercise there's also hormonal effects.

There's at least anecdotal evidence in ultra endurance athletes that fatigue, presumably at lower intensities, is also highly psychological and people can just blast through levels of fatigue they didn't think was possible at all.

The last point is definitely true. There are various levels of fatigue: when one feels considerable fatigue for the first time it's still far from being "done" but mental effort is required. I experienced it a few times during ultra long treks (up to 70 km in one day).

 

[peterfin]

The last point is definitely true. There are various levels of fatigue: when one feels considerable fatigue for the first time it's still far from being "done" but mental effort is required. I experienced it a few times during ultra long treks (up to 70 km in one day).

Apparently the brain can reduce nerve signals to protect muscles from being damaged. Willpower may help to reactivate the nervous system.

 

[zlev11]

Clicky bait or actual info?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847337675814039733

View: https://x.com/unclecycling/status/1847337675814039733?s=19

CyclingHighlights
@unclecycling

"Since 45 days I know one of the biggest doping secrets in World Tour. It will be disappointing for a lot of fans who think actual cycling is clean. But I have to wait guys, that’s how it works. This info has a great value but we don’t sell nothing to the press."

this guy is a clickbait artist but he occasionally does have some real scoops. his videos about the Portuguese peloton ended up all being true. he seems to have legitimate insider information.

 

[houtdffan]

We've seen an absolute arms race the last 3 years

started when Mapei bossed things from April through October of 2022 (except for Remco's little heat stroke at TDS)

Then Mapei were bossing things early in 2023 until covid and the Bank Robbers really turned up the dial, winning all 3 GT in 2023

Saunier-Duval really turned it up about 10 notches in 2024

What will Mapei and the Bank Robbers do to counter, or will everyone be told, no more of this?


The bigger question is, how are these teams still allowed to operate?

 

[Rob5091]

According to the UCI we're in 2025
(see https://inrng.com/2024/10/happy-new-year-2025-season/ ) so thinking about 2024, if all of the peloton is just as juiced up as this year then next year, I fear, we'll have more bad crashes. As Tommy Franks said, "Speed kills".

 

[pastronef]

Radio France has an investigation about products in the peloton. voltaren, paracetamol, caffeine, ketones.
stuff I can buy over the counter

 

[Rob5091]

Radio France has an investigation about products in the peloton. voltaren, paracetamol, caffeine, ketones.
stuff I can buy over the counter

Is Tapentadol mentioned as it's still only on WADA's monitor list? (https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/defa...toring_program_en_final_22_september_2023.pdf )

 

[pastronef]

Is Tapentadol mentioned as it's still only on WADA's monitor list? (https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/defa...toring_program_en_final_22_september_2023.pdf )

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPmqZavnJEE


they talk about legal stuff. nothing banned. Tapendadol not named

 

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849901595829363066

View: https://x.com/faustonef/status/1849901595829363066

 

[Rob5091]

If guys and gals in the pro-peloton are using something that's not banned, then it's legal. A little lab alteration and volia, illegal becomes legal. If WADA have no test for something, then it's as good as legal (i.e. "Never tested positive!")

 

[Ripper]

If guys and gals in the pro-peloton are using something that's not banned, then it's legal. A little lab alteration and volia, illegal becomes legal. If WADA have no test for something, then it's as good as legal (i.e. "Never tested positive!")

We know that is not quite true though. The WADA rules definitely make mention of general methods and the sought after effects. They do this because 1) with some products, if you do make some changes to a compound, it is not currently testable (e.g. the Clear), and 2) some methods or drugs might be created to have a specific effect, but no available test right now (think of any cutting edge process that could be similar to EPO).