• We're giving away a Cyclingnews water bottle! Find out more here!

Steven Kruijswijk

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 16, 2010
16,254
0
0
Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
and you base this on......
lol, JVDB has nothing on Gesink, one race in his career he performed better.
It was Gesink's first tour last year, he came 6th. One place behind JVDB and he had to ride for Menchov (and probably peaked too early... suisse).

JVDB first ride he came 15th (and don't tell me he was helping cuddles, cause he did anything but, whereas gesink actually towed mr. menchov).

so yeah, we shall see if JVDB will be miles ahead of gesink :rolleyes:

---

anyway enough of gesink, hopefully Kruijswijk can keep his top 10 today, I think he will.
He lost 6 minutes in the TTT rofl. Coming from the guys who use every little excuse to talk up Gesink's failures, but you easily ignore this. Hah, funny.
 
Jun 22, 2009
10,475
0
0
El Pistolero said:
He lost 6 minutes in the TTT rofl. Coming from the guys who use every little excuse to talk up Gesink's failures, but you easily ignore this. Hah, funny.
so? Gesink lost minutes on the cobble stage last year. That is cycling.

You'd be a fool if you think JVDB 1st tour was comparable to RGs.

and he only came in about 4.30 behind his team.
So lets give him that time back... hmmm he is now 12th or 13th. rofl my point stands.
 
Jul 16, 2010
16,254
0
0
Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
so? Gesink lost minutes on the cobble stage last year. That is cycling.

You'd be a fool if you think JVDB 1st tour was comparable to RGs.

and he only came in about 4.30 behind his team.
So lets give him that time back... hmmm he is now 12th or 13th. rofl my point stands.
No, your point doesn't stand. Like I said, you use every small dumb stupid idiotic thing as an excuse when it comes to Gesink, but when a team loses a sh*tload of time plus a rider comes 5 minutes back of said team you ignore it. There's bias and there's plain stupidity. Yours was the latter.

After VDB lost so much time he just went into every breakaway possible. So no, you can't use Tour 2009 as an example. Use his Giro 2008 as an example then ;) It had a stronger field then that Tour anyway.

Gesink losing so much time on the cobbled stage is because he has the bike handling skills of a Colombian.
 
Sep 9, 2009
6,019
0
0
Moondance said:
In re: Gesink v VdB2, lets look at what the professionals say about their chances:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/cycling/tour-de-france?ev_oc_grp_ids=331405 (odds are for chances at outright win, without Contador)

Gesink 12/1
VdB2 40/1

Bet365 and Unibet (same scenario)

Gesink 14/1
VdB2 50/1


Professionals favour Gesink, by a long margin.
Bookmakers don't predict events, they balance a book.

If there at 20 blindly optimistic dutch fans for every 1 blindly optimistic Belgian, then the odds will reflect that, not the real chance.
 
Jul 2, 2009
5,504
0
0
Waterloo Sunrise said:
Bookmakers don't predict events, they balance a book.

If there at 20 blindly optimistic dutch fans for every 1 blindly optimistic Belgian, then the odds will reflect that, not the real chance.
Those aren't Dutch bookmakers.

Secondly, I doubt the odds are skewed by masses of blindly optimistic Dutch fans. We're not a big sports betting nation.
 
Jan 11, 2010
12,243
0
0
Waterloo Sunrise said:
Bookmakers don't predict events, they balance a book.

If there at 20 blindly optimistic dutch fans for every 1 blindly optimistic Belgian, then the odds will reflect that, not the real chance.
I strongly doubt that more Dutchies bet on cycling than Belgians ;)

Anyway, this DenisMenchov character should be glad that Gesink worked for his idol's sorry a$$ in last year's Tour, pacing him up the hardest climbs. Rabo won't miss him, Kruijswijk is nearly as good already :eek:
 
Sep 9, 2009
6,019
0
0
Moondance said:
Those aren't Dutch bookmakers.

Secondly, I doubt the odds are skewed by masses of blindly optimistic Dutch fans. We're not a big sports betting nation.
Ok, but the primary point is that odds do not represent the opinion of professionals.

They represent the aggregated opinion of people willing to gamble.

Personally, Gesink > VDB.
 
Jun 22, 2009
10,475
0
0
El Pistolero said:
No, your point doesn't stand. Like I said, you use every small dumb stupid idiotic thing as an excuse when it comes to Gesink, but when a team loses a sh*tload of time plus a rider comes 5 minutes back of said team you ignore it. There's bias and there's plain stupidity. Yours was the latter.

After VDB lost so much time he just went into every breakaway possible. So no, you can't use Tour 2009 as an example. Use his Giro 2008 as an example then ;) It had a stronger field then that Tour anyway.

Gesink losing so much time on the cobbled stage is because he has the bike handling skills of a Colombian.
every little excuse?
I don't think he deserved more then 6th place last year tour, in fact he was lucky to beat Jrod. I merely think it was a good ride considering it was his first tour. Many have mentioned that he had a fracture, if you cant accept this that is your choice. I'm not even sure the frcture affected him that much, but like I have said many times he struggled with the pace of the tour. But again did a good ride all things considering.

Gesink did in fact ride for menchov on a couple of stages, so I don't see why this is an excuse. I'm afraid your the stupid one if you cant distiguis fact from excuse.

if you referring to excuses towards this season, well all I have said is that
1) he may have peaked to early @oman - didn't sugar coat his climbing after that, it wasn't great go read the race threads.
2) He has had (according to him even) motivational issues;
stemming from his father. I suppose you think this is an excuse also.
3) reports suggest he didn't ride between TA and Basque, and thus it wasn't a bad ride. Not an excuse but again a fact.

Fact is Gesink, by the majority is viewed as a bigger talent then JVDB, and it is obvious, like all things dutch you have reacedt in a negative manner. shockkker. :rolleyes:

as for the cobbles, I'm not arguing it's his fault, like I said that is cycling. And even with that he still managed a good 6th place.
 
Jul 2, 2009
5,504
0
0
Waterloo Sunrise said:
Ok, but the primary point is that odds do not represent the opinion of professionals.

They represent the aggregated opinion of people willing to gamble.

Personally, Gesink > VDB.
I don't deny lines shift based on the betting patterns of the proletariat, however, when the lines are originally set, they're set by a handicapper who, one assumes, is an expert.

And I doubt the Dutch betting crown are causing the bookmakers en masse to dramatically shorten the odds on Gesink.

But you're right, they have shifted a little. I think the longest i've never seen for Gesink (in the Contador-less category) was 18/1 a few months back... I remember having made a mental note of it at the time. The shortest I've seen VdB2 was 33/1, so he has been lengthening as of late.
 
Jul 16, 2010
16,254
0
0
Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
every little excuse?
I don't think he deserved more then 6th place last year tour, in fact he was lucky to beat Jrod. I merely think it was a good ride considering it was his first tour. Many have mentioned that he had a fracture, if you cant accept this that is your choice. I'm not even sure the frcture affected him that much, but like I have said many times he struggled with the pace of the tour. But again did a good ride all things considering.

Gesink did in fact ride for menchov on a couple of stages, so I don't see why this is an excuse. I'm afraid your the stupid one if you cant distiguis fact from excuse.

if you referring to excuses towards this season, well all I have said is that
1) he may have peaked to early @oman - didn't sugar coat his climbing after that, it wasn't great go read the race threads.
2) He has had (according to him even) motivational issues;
stemming from his father. I suppose you think this is an excuse also.
3) reports suggest he didn't ride between TA and Basque, and thus it wasn't a bad ride. Not an excuse but again a fact.

Fact is Gesink, by the majority is viewed as a bigger talent then JVDB, and it is obvious, like all things dutch you have reacedt in a negative manner. shockkker. :rolleyes:
I'm also including D_T excuses mind you

And no, I haven't reacted negative. My post was neutral as I haven't told my opinion about who's the better of the 2 in July. Just think your argument about the Tour 2009 was stupid. And it was. As I pointed out. I don't care which of the 2 is better nor do I know. All I know is, they'll never win the Tour, so who cares.

In his second GT VDB was 7th . That's impressive considering the names above him.
 
Jun 22, 2009
10,475
0
0
I don't think it was stupid I was just pointing out to menchov that it was in fact Gesink's first tour de france, and was a good result. And that it is natural that he will adjust to the pace better with experience. Comprehend?

And Like I defended, there was a massive difference between the two riders debut performnces. Results and breakaway kms might complicate this, but any who watched the two editions will know this.

ps: Gesink has never been lower than 7th in a GT :p
 
Jan 11, 2010
12,243
0
0
El Pistolero said:
In his second GT VDB was 7th . That's impressive considering the names above him.
He was aged 25. Gesink, aged 22, was 7th in his first GT. So I don´t see your point.

Anyway, how did this turn into a Gesink thread...
 
Jul 2, 2009
5,504
0
0
theyoungest said:
He was aged 25. Gesink, aged 22, was 7th in his first GT. So I don´t see your point.

Anyway, how did this turn into a Gesink thread...
I agree.... If this is what the thread has devolved into I guess we might as well wrap this up.

I must share the blame in this :eek:
 
Jun 22, 2009
10,475
0
0
theyoungest said:
Anyway, how did this turn into a Gesink thread...
True, apologies for contributing to the gesink talk.
actually I think it half started as a gesink thread :D

--

Kruijswijk season from here?
 
Jul 2, 2009
5,504
0
0
Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
True, apologies for contributing to the gesink talk.
actually I think it half started as a gesink thread :D

--

Kruijswijk season from here?
He'll take a very long break (he might be drafted into a domestique role in the Dutch Nat. RR). He probably do a race like Poland in August FTW, and maybe do the Canadian races for Rabo in September, and domestique for Gesink in the late season classics.
 
May 12, 2010
1,728
0
0
Moondance said:
He'll take a very long break (he might be drafted into a domestique role in the Dutch Nat. RR). He probably do a race like Poland in August FTW, and maybe do the Canadian races for Rabo in September, and domestique for Gesink in the late season classics.
Is that your speculation? Breukink suggested he might do the Vuelta later this year. I would like to see that happen, he doesn't appear to be extremely tired at the end of this Giro, give him a long break, and I think he'll be ready for the Vuelta.

The problem is there are so few other races for him after the Tour, Rabo will start in Poland, Burgos, but that's pretty much it as far as mountains (which is his terrain).
 
Jan 11, 2010
12,243
0
0
Lanark said:
Is that your speculation? Breukink suggested he might do the Vuelta later this year. I would like to see that happen, he doesn't appear to be extremely tired at the end of this Giro, give him a long break, and I think he'll be ready for the Vuelta.

The problem is there are so few other races for him after the Tour, Rabo will start in Poland, Burgos, but that's pretty much it as far as mountains (which is his terrain).
Last year, Mollema did the Tour de Suisse after the Giro. Maybe they'll use the same kind of trajectory for Kruijswijk, I don't see why not. Unless indeed he'll ride the Vuelta, but seeing is believing, given the ultra-protective nature of Erik Breukink. It's already a miracle he rode a GT in his first year.

edit: and as I type this, I check his website, and lo and behold:

Nu even relaxen en daarna op naar Zwitserland.
 
Jun 22, 2009
10,475
0
0
Ferminal said:
Would be nice to see him in the Vuelta support (or as a backup to) Gesink. But he's had such a big 6 weeks, has to fall down from this and might be hard to get back up for another GT this season.
either way I'm satisfied.

His progress is looking very well, it could be argued that he has progressed better the mollema in the last year and has almost past him. Tho Kruijswijk is probably on the last strides of his peak, and maybe Mollema is hoping to get that peak at the tour.
 
Maybe it would be a good thing not comparing this guy to other riders just yet. Right now he's doing great. Rather enjoy that instead of making him the second coming of Christ. Let him confirm next year and the year after that. Right now people are talking down on Kreuzinger, yet two years ago people thought he was the next TDF winner for years to come. Great for Holland that they have these talented guys, just don't burn them out before their carreers have really taken off.

As for the Gesink vs JVDB debate, there is a thread for that already and we'll know soon enough, won't we. I must say that i find the denigrating tone towards the latter somewhat offensive. It almost makes one hope he ends up on the podium and hands Gesinks *** to him.
 
Jan 11, 2010
12,243
0
0
Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
either way I'm satisfied.

His progress is looking very well, it could be argued that he has progressed better the mollema in the last year and has almost past him. Tho Kruijswijk is probably on the last strides of his peak, and maybe Mollema is hoping to get that peak at the tour.
Right now he's looking better than Mollema, but just look at the way Rodriguez killed it in the Dauphiné: the Giro really works wonders for your form. Also, I get the feeling that mono slowed down Mollema's development somewhat.

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Maybe it would be a good thing not comparing this guy to other riders just yet. Right now he's doing great. Rather enjoy that instead of making him the second coming of Christ. Let him confirm next year and the year after that. Right now people are talking down on Kreuzinger, yet two years ago people thought he was the next TDF winner for years to come. Great for Holland that they have these talented guys, just don't burn them out before their carreers have really taken off.

As for the Gesink vs JVDB debate, there is a thread for that already and we'll know soon enough, won't we. I must say that i find the denigrating tone towards the latter somewhat offensive. It almost makes one hope he ends up on the podium and hands Gesinks *** to him.
Huh? What thread have you been reading? Can't be this one.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts