stupid maths problem

[Anonymous]

Glad to see the 9 ers are so open minded

Weve already had "Im tired of seeing this" from Parrulo and " I never lose maths debates" from ACF. Another example of respect to other peoples opinions right here.

Why does it annoy some of you guys so much that other people were taught differently.

Ive been taught from a very young age that unless specified otherwise numbers in brackets are ONLY multiplied by the number next to it. From the looks of it, im not the only one.

Youll have to do a lot better than "we are cleverer than you" to convince us we are wrong.

That aside, still glad to see TFF back

Though looking at the "moderators" thread, one wonders how long.

HA!!! Yea, I really endeared myself right off the bat didn't I?

I can see the logic of what you guys are writing, but I was taught the 9 way, and it will totally f*ck up my whole "meaning of life paradigm" if I accept another view of reality like that.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Glad to see the 9 ers are so open minded

Weve already had "Im tired of seeing this" from Parrulo and " I never lose maths debates" from ACF. Another example of respect to other peoples opinions right here.

Why does it annoy some of you guys so much that other people were taught differently.

Ive been taught from a very young age that unless specified otherwise numbers in brackets are ONLY multiplied by the number next to it. From the looks of it, im not the only one.

Youll have to do a lot better than "we are cleverer than you" to convince us we are wrong.

That aside, still glad to see TFF back

Though looking at the "moderators" thread, one wonders how long.

Oh yeah, well you 9-haters seem just as close minded as we 9-fanboys do.

 

[Ferminal]

Question is achieving its desired effect...

 

[Rip:30]

Check out the big brain on Brad!

I had to google that one

 

[Rip:30]

So... you didn't actually ask your father did you?


jealous...jealous haterz

yes i did ask him, although it was after my first post.

and the 60 year old senior professor of math said 9. when i then brought up the point team 1 have made about 2(1+2) taking precedence over 6/2, he said he knows no rule to support this but has seen it evaluated as such and so more brackets or a multiplier would clarify any ambiguity.

 

[therealtimshady]

brakcets first gives 6 / 2 x 3. the BIDMAS says division before multiplication. so 6/2 =3. then 3x 3 =9

 

[Libertine Seguros]

yes i did ask him, although it was after my first post.

and the 60 year old senior professor of math said 9. when i then brought up the point team 1 have made about 2(1+2) taking precedence over 6/2, he said he knows no rule to support this but has seen it evaluated as such and so more brackets or a multiplier would clarify any ambiguity.

See, this is the point though - your senior professor of math father says 9, my teacher of math with a postgrad in it mother says 1. There are rules that support both, depending on which notation and method you were taught. That's why the additional brackets or realisation as a fraction would solve the mystery.

Your senior professor of math father should also acknowledge that he himself would never express the problem thus, because of that confusion.

As was said before, long before, no serious mathematician should have seen the divide sign since they were about 13.

brakcets first gives 6 / 2 x 3. the BIDMAS says division before multiplication. so 6/2 =3. then 3x 3 =9

PEMDAS and PEDMAS are alike. Multiplication and Division have equal prominence. It reads left to right. That also makes sense with the 9 answer. But the way I have been taught, and my whole family have been taught (including my mother who teaches maths, and my father and brother who both have science degrees), placing an item directly next to brackets makes it implicitly part of the same expression, and as an expression including brackets, it therefore supercedes the division of 6/2. And I'm hardly alone, as that purplemath graphic calculator image shows.

Yet again, it is poorly expressed and combining arithmetic and algebraic notation. The 9 reading is arithmetic, the 1 reading is algebraic.

Both require an implicit assumption of what is intended.

But what is intended in this case is arguments, because it's been deliberately drawn in this confusing, ambiguous way to create them - and it shows a clear discrepance in the way we are taught, because it's not an argument between people who are clever and people who are stupid - it's an argument that extends to people who are well-versed and scholarly in the subject on both sides.

 

[ksmith]

Well I made the answer 9. UK ed system.

I was nieve enough to think the laws of maths were international.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Well I made the answer 9. UK ed system.

I was nieve enough to think the laws of maths were international.

Yeah I got 9 too, but then I know that other word is naive. I hope your math skills are better than your English skills.

 

[Bike Boy]

I've had math books with less care for readability. Math is a very fascinating study when presented properly. It's also funny how much advanced math differs from fundemental math. I've seen fellow students struggling with math in Highschool, but doing well at the University and vice versa. So no need to worry if you find the posted equation confusing.

 

[boomcie]

Alright, first of: the correct answer is clearly 9.
Unlike ACF I often lose mathematical debates, but this was just way too easy.

I would like to congratulate Libertine though on putting sooo much effort into defending "1" as the correct answer. Most of it even made sense, but it's a pity that the correct answer remains 9.

You added the star here. WIth the star I think most people that say 1 would agree the answer is 9. Its without the star that we say the answer is 1.

That's honestly the silliest thing I've read in the whole (awesome) thread.

 

[The Hitch]

Because....

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

10÷2a is not the same as 5a

the answer is: don't write it down like this, use fractions.

In the strict rule (just read it from left to right) 9 is the correct answer, but it's just stupid to write it down this ambiguous...

 

[boomcie]

Because....

This has already been answered by Thoughtforfood.

No, it isn't, because the multiplication is implicit. Just because you don't see it does not negate its presence...

Exactly, adding the star changes nothing. Nothing whatsoever.

 

[phanatic]

Interesting. I picked 9 as a joke.

 

[boomcie]

Interesting. I picked 9 as a joke.

Good joke

 

[The Hitch]

This has already been answered by Thoughtforfood.



Exactly, adding the star changes nothing. Nothing whatsoever.

If you really did read the whole thread it seems you have not understood any of the arguments made by those who believe the answer is 1 so I will repeat it for you.

You were taught one way. We were taught another.

For us they are different. A multiplication sign means multiply by the whole equation. A bracket means multiply just by the number next to the bracket. For us.

Hope that helps

 

[boomcie]

If you really did read the whole thread it seems you have not understood any of the arguments made by those who believe the answer is 1 so I will repeat it for you.

You were taught one way. We were taught another.

For us they are different. A multiplication sign means multiply by the whole equation. A bracket means multiply just by the number next to the bracket. For us.

Hope that helps

Not really.

I understood the whole "we were taught differently approach" (punish those god awful teachers, except Libertines mom of course).

But still nobody confirmed what you said about the star (or did I miss something?). That really makes no sense at all.

 

[The Hitch]

What we need other people to confirm my posts now?

Anyway as it happens another poster (because i am presumably like a child here whose words need to be approved by an adult) have been given the nod by another poster here.

No they don't.

If you put in the asterisk, it makes it clear that 2 and (1+2) are NOT part of the same expression. Therefore it follows a linear form from left to right, where the division takes place before multiplication, and the logical answer is 9. If you include the asterisk, most of us who've said 1 would probably say 9. I would and Hitch would, at least.

Though you are right. None of this makes any sence. The answer is 9 because you said so, with your very elequent and well argued point

Alright, first of: the correct answer is clearly 9.
Unlike ACF I often lose mathematical debates, but this was just way too easy.

I would like to congratulate Libertine though on putting sooo much effort into defending "1" as the correct answer. Most of it even made sense, but it's a pity that the correct answer remains 9.

Yep. The answer is 9. The great boomcie hath spoken.

Anything else you want sunshine?

 

[boomcie]

Yep. The answer is 9. The great boomcie hath spoken.

Anything else you want sunshine?

No, thanks moonshine. You did a good job answering my questions. I appreciate that. Sadly my relative greatness does not influence the correctness of my answer. It remains 9 though. It has already been explained countless times why, so I'm not going to bother repeating that stuff.

You rock Hitch and despite your shortcomings, you are still my favorite Hitch on the forum.

Don't let the fact that the asterisk is irrelevant (despite Libertine's backing) ruin your day.

Sincerely,

Your friend boomcie

 

[The Hitch]

No, thanks moonshine. You did a good job answering my questions. I appreciate that. Sadly my relative greatness does not influence the correctness of my answer. It remains 9 though. It has already been explained countless times why, so I'm not going to bother repeating that stuff.

You rock Hitch and despite your shortcomings, you are still my favorite Hitch on the forum.

Don't let the fact that the asterisk is irrelevant (despite Libertine's backing) ruin your day.

Sincerely,

Your friend boomcie

I think you are being a bit unfair.

You asked that I find someone else to back up my answer ( a bit unfair unfair in and of itself as it suggests that my posts are not to be trusted). I did so. Your response is to act as if I brought LS's support in as a weak way of advancing my own argument, which is clearly not the case.

 

[boomcie]

I think you are being a bit unfair.

You asked that I find someone else to back up my answer ( a bit unfair unfair in and of itself as it suggests that my posts are not to be trusted). I did so. Your response is to act as if I brought LS's support in as a weak way of advancing my own argument, which is clearly not the case.

Hitchy-boy...

Who's being childish now? I admit I have my moments and I am by no means an adult (despite my age), but you can also behave like a little whiner sometimes.

Your argument was not solid in my eyes and it also lacked the support of other people, which made it even less solid. You provided the backing, but the argument was still not acceptable to me. I'm sorry for that.

To all users: I will hereby declare that I requested the Hitch to provide the backing. He is still great.

Your friend,
boomcie

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The asterisk is only irrelevant in arithmetic notation.

In algebraic notation it clearly marks that 2(1+2) is not a single expression, and therefore clarifies that the answer should be 9 and not 1. Multiplication from next to brackets is implicitly 'stronger' than multiplication separated from brackets.

As was pointed out near the start of this debate, it doesn't matter because a proper mathematician would never have seen the divide symbol since they were kids, and no proper mathematician would mix algebraic and arithmetic notation like this because of the ambiguity.

If the people saying 1 were wrong, considering this is supposedly basic mathematics, you are saying that 37% of the people posting here, plus assorted maths teaching websites, graphical calculators, teachers and postgrads who concur with them, are idiots who can't do basic mathematics.

Since that's patently not the case, the fault lies with the equation, which is written in a form no serious mathematician would use. In this case it's simply a matter of going with how you first read the equation. I first read it algebraically, and made the answer 1. You first read it arithmetically, and made the answer 9. I see why you answer 1 and accept your reading of it, I just read it differently. Without more information (vis-à-vis a rewriting expressed in fraction form) we cannot tell whose reading is accurate, and both answers are valid conclusions with valid mathematical reasoning behind them.

 

[boomcie]

Libertine,

The whole thing with your posts is that they always make sense to me . But in this case (despite the very rational arguments you seem to be providing) I just don't agree with you.

Actually, what you are explaining is 10 times as hard as the equation itself. Thanks for taking the time though, an interesting read.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Libertine,

The whole thing with your posts is that they always make sense to me . But in this case (despite the very rational arguments you seem to be providing) I just don't agree with you.

Actually, what you are explaining is 10 times as hard as the equation itself. Thanks for taking the time though, an interesting read.

The equation is more complex than it looks though, because it doesn't include the key information that we need to be sure of the answer. It kind of puts together what it can and trusts us to read it; but it's confusing and slightly off kilter because it doesn't preclude the other reading from being right.

Think of it as like maths, as done by DAOTEC. The numbers and symbols are all perfectly fine, but somehow when they're all put together it looks like normal mathematics but somehow manages to make itself confusing at the same time.