Sun 11th April: Paris - Roubaix, 259km

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Which team will the winner of Paris Roubaix be on?

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Anonymous

Guest
Von Mises said:
Look at it from Flecha point of view. He cant TT like Cancellara, he cant sprint like Boonen (or Hushovd). He had limited options, why should he work for Boonen?

No, the Flecha point of view was, "I can't beat Cancellara, so I will do nothing, suck wheel, and attack when the couple of people in this group with testicles burn themselves out. Hopefully, I will be rested enough to solo in....here goes, crap, took Thor with me...can't beat him.....he says he is cramping, maybe I will finally do some pulls.......crap, he was better than he said, guess I will take 3rd and make a display of it.....gee, if I continue to race like this throughout the rest of my career, there is no end to the top 10's I can get..."
 
Apr 10, 2010
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Von Mises said:
Look at it from Flecha point of view. He cant TT like Cancellara, he cant sprint like Boonen (or Hushovd). He had limited options, why should he work for Boonen?

Agreed. It was an impressive ride by Flecha. He won't be receiving the criticism than Boonen is now facing for suicidal attacks that left him a spent force and off the podium. I appreciate Boonen fans are upset and looking for a scapegoat, but criticising Flecha for not being Boonen's lead out man is not correct in my view.

You need big balls to get on the podium at Paris-Roubeix so lets cut out the trolling.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Managed to stay away from the forums and watched the Versus edition. Amazing performance by Cancellara. His initial just was impressive enough, but to gain that sort of time on the road up the finish was superhuman. Great race!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Moose McKnuckles said:
Flecha rode like a wuss during the last sections of the race, but in all fairness, he did try a few attacks earlier.

Boonen has himself to blame for not paying attention, though I still can't believe 8 of the top riders together couldn't catch Cancellara.

It was his failure to help chase Spartacus for miles that I find weak. He raced for second more overtly than anyone else...and he got third. Just an uninspiring ride by any measure.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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They might have organized perfectly and still not caught Cancellara. His sustained acceleration was scary!
 
Mar 10, 2009
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It wouldn't surprise me if Flecha got team orders from Sky to let Boonen go at it alone, wait and sit, tire Boonen, perhaps have Hammond do some of the dirty work, and then finish it off by launching a decisive attack to podium. With Boonen, Hushovd, Cancellara and maybe Pozzato, he wasn't going to get a podium spot, at most a top 5-10. As far as I remember, looking at how Flecha went over some secteurs, he didn't seem to be in the best form either. He needed to wear others out.

However, the best possible result for newcomer Sky was a podium. They have managed to 'establish' themselves in one of the biggest races. In a couple of years, no one knows about how it happened, but the stats are there.
 
Jul 26, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
It was his failure to help chase Spartacus for miles that I find weak. He raced for second more overtly than anyone else...and he got third. Just an uninspiring ride by any measure.

WRONG...........watch it again , you must have your eyes closed for the last 47 km..............flecha did work in the chase group from 47km out, at 23km he made a strong dig which created a gap and at that moment cut into fabians advantage............after the smaller regroupment he still pulled through and worked in the chase group.....at 12 km hushvod pulled hard at the front creating a small gap with flecha on his wheel and at that moment flecha pulled through and then there were two......boonen made the same mistake in the race twice....and as fabian later stated in the post race interview he felt boonen simply worked to much and helped to ruin his own chances for the win.......
 
Jul 23, 2009
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lagartija said:
WRONG...........watch it again , you must have your eyes closed for the last 47 km..............flecha did work in the chase group from 47km out, at 23km he made a strong dig which created a gap and at that moment cut into fabians advantage............after the smaller regroupment he still pulled through and worked in the chase group.....at 12 km hushvod pulled hard at the front creating a small gap with flecha on his wheel and at that moment flecha pulled through and then there were two......boonen made the same mistake in the race twice....and as fabian later stated in the post race interview he felt boonen simply worked to much and helped to ruin his own chances for the win.......

Do you really think that was a strong dig to take time back from Cancellara, and not a move to distance himself from the now-tired working members of his group? I think it was the latter myself.

I like Flecha, I just don't like how he finished this race. He may not be able to sprint with Boonen or Hushovd, but he was there at the front not by accident but because he is a very strong rider in very good form. There were better options (purely my opinion here, the Sky DS most likely disagreed) than trying to be at best #2 on the day. Work with the group, and if you can bring back Cancellara after he's been away for about 15 km, try an attack to shed the sprinters when the best TT guy in the world is trashed.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The guy barely sniffed the wind until his first attack...which Boonen brought back. Then he barely sniffed the wind until his final attack. He hid in the group and pulled off within seconds when he did get to the front. He rode a cowards race and all watching it again will do is confirm my pervious observations.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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I'd have to go through this thread to see what guys were saying during the race, but I was impressed with Boonen's attack a few minutes or more before Cancellara took off. Positioning-wise, there wasn't much of a difference with Cancellara content to sit back to see if Boonen could actually get away (he didn't).
 
Jul 26, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
The guy barely sniffed the wind until his first attack...which Boonen brought back. Then he barely sniffed the wind until his final attack. He hid in the group and pulled off within seconds when he did get to the front. He rode a cowards race and all watching it again will do is confirm my pervious observations.

then why arent you complaining about hushvod, he sat at the back of the group for 3 and 4 km at a time, granted he had hammond but if he was racing for the win as is your complain then why not come through stronger and more regularly ........he sat on the group and then sat on flecha in the finale
 
Jul 26, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
Do you really think that was a strong dig to take time back from Cancellara, and not a move to distance himself from the now-tired working members of his group? I think it was the latter myself.

I like Flecha, I just don't like how he finished this race. He may not be able to sprint with Boonen or Hushovd, but he was there at the front not by accident but because he is a very strong rider in very good form. There were better options (purely my opinion here, the Sky DS most likely disagreed) than trying to be at best #2 on the day. Work with the group, and if you can bring back Cancellara after he's been away for about 15 km, try an attack to shed the sprinters when the best TT guy in the world is trashed.

whether flechas move was to bridge or distance himself wasnt really the point , it just so happened his move cut into fabians lead at that moment , he did work in the chase group, you said if you can bring back canc, .....i dont think anybody was catching fabian today, not boonen , not flecha , and certainly not hushvod who did sit on the chase group for long periods of time
 
Oct 5, 2009
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lagartija said:
then why arent you complaining about hushvod, he sat at the back of the group for 3 and 4 km at a time, granted he had hammond but if he was racing for the win as is your complain then why not come through stronger and more regularly ........he sat on the group and then sat on flecha in the finale

I believe that the disgust is with Flecha's hypocrasy, regarding the gesture at the end of the race..
 
High Cotton said:
I believe that the disgust is with Flecha's hypocrasy, regarding the gesture at the end of the race..

Actually I'm disgusted of Hushov's lack of workload sharing AKA wheel sucking when they rode away from the chasing group & spoiled a well deserved 2nd place by Flecha in the final sprint.
 
Oct 5, 2009
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hfer07 said:
Actually I'm disgusted of Hushov's lack of workload sharing AKA wheel sucking when they rode away from the chasing group & spoiled a well deserved 2nd place by Flecha in the final sprint.

How do you figure Flecha deserved second?

...because he waited until those who actually wanted to try to chase Cancellara down were too gassed to respond? How's that different than what Hushovd did? Sorry mate. Flecha got beat at his own game.

As far as I'm concerned, both Flecha and Hushovd got more than they deserved, but that's racing.
 
High Cotton said:
How do you figure Flecha deserved second?

...because he waited until those who actually wanted to try to chase Cancellara down were too gassed to respond? How's that different than what Hushovd did? Sorry mate. Flecha got beat at his own game.

As far as I'm concerned, both Flecha and Hushovd got more than they deserved, but that's racing.

the big difference is that Hushov was the only one with a team mate in the chase group. He just spent Hammond to his last breath, buying time to leech on the next brake away and he got it in the name of Flecha. the rest is history.
but you're right- that's racing after all. I just dislike wheel suckers.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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I think it's easy to come up with all these "should have done" arguments, but I bet that the actual options left in the suitcase of courage, 200+km into Roubaix, more pave and headwind ahead, and a Swiss rider who has been reigning supreme during the entire cobbles season, will seriously mess with what people can muster on the last 50kms.

In other races, groups are often the sum of its parts, but I can think of few Roubaixs where any group was more than a sliver better than the strongest legs present. And today, the sum of those legs was thundering off into a galaxy far far away.

I don't think that Boonen was that stupid to attack as often as he did, just before Cancellara went. Boonen didn't jump to escape, he jumped to dwindle. He felt isolated and wanted to even things out, by reducing the amount of riders that still had team members with them. He has frequently done that and it usually has worked out reasonably well, even in the very recent past. If he had succeeded and had indeed been the last one left with Cancellara "as before", we wouldn't question that strategy one moment. We probably would even applaud him for racing strongly.

Looking back it is easy to see Boonen's moment of weakness in glorious HD. But up until earlier this afternoon you would have been told to get your head examined if you suggested that anyone would stupid enough to jump away at that point in the race, into that wind, with shy of 50k left on the clock. After his pave attacks, he went back to check the damage, and it was substantial. Boonen had some food, all good in any normal race, and then was caught out by someone who actually felt about another 20k stronger than most of us thought on the limit of super bloody brilliant already.

So today he was super bloody brilliant and a half. I've tried to imagine what the thought process must have been, when someone find himself ith 50k of Roubaix and wind ahead, and decides that moment there is "the perfect time to go", and not 20k later. From that group. I'm still giggling.

And since this is PR, they all know that the strongest legs do win here, they know their own legs, they see what sits around them, and whose race the 2010 edition was. The very moment he went, after those first 50 meter he took, I think everyone knew exactly they had all been reduced to also rans, at a point in the race when their head was dealing with totally different things. The "normal" thing to expect. No-one seemed too sure how to handle that. I don't think this was an endgame anyone was ready to face, or able to face.

What you saw for a long while was a group that bit by bit comes to the realization that it is indeed game over, and that they have 40+km to go. No-one too sure what that means for the rest of the race. All of these have riders have "lived" PR, as a legend and as a race. And none of them had been in anything remotely like this. They all knew what to expect, and still didn't know what hit them.

We're 200km into Roubaix. And it might not have been wet, I have heard many riders say this was a particular tough one. Some said that in this one, the paves were actually the easiest bit, that this time was always gonna be about the bits in between. That hard.

It must have been one hell of a smack onto planet Earth that the guy they all expected took off, 50k out. (feel free to mentally insert that faceplant photo). And you see how people react when they are feeling the effort put in already. By his own account, Boonen even forgot to eat during the part of the race that followed, and he was the stronger one. What does that tell you about the real organisational claw-back capabilities of this group.

It's nice to suggest "if they had worked together" or "x was hiding", but these were already the last few left standing with quite a bit of the race to go. There is no hiding in PR. It is a monstrously tough slow uphill ride that never gets above sea level, and you don't end up at the front cruising on other people's tails.

In most other races, you probably would indeed have seen a chance and attempt to work together and join forces. By people who still have that as an option in races that are less taxing. But "should have" is in no relationship to "could have" 200km into PR. Veterans as most of them are, it must have been one shock to find yourself 50k out and realize that in all honesty, you simply "don't have" what that guy who just left you "does have", today.

I think PR is one of those races where people slowly lose it in many many ways, body and head, and any weakness is exposed and usually fatal. Few groups count for anything in the final stages before the velodrome. We are used to see finals a bit closer to the end, but people always finish in PR where their own legs get them to.

No-one was racing or settling for 2nd that could have been racing for 1st. Not in this race. And racing for 2nd, well, everyone does that differently. Atypically, this time they had a long time to do it that way, fuelling our speculation what they should/could have done, as we had so much more of limbo on display then normal. But I think all the claw-back options were already off the table the moment Cancellera showed what his legs felt like, and everyone knew what that meant for all of them, eventually. And, in PR, inescapably.

Here, those last 48km were always for 2nd, however they were tackled. And no rider gets a top 5 in PR sucking wheels.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Cancellara/Boonen2strongestmen

Obviously Cancellara was way stronger than Boonen, 2 weeks ago. Cancellara is the workingmans cyclist, in the workingmans race.

Obviously coming into the race Boonens job was to shadow Cancellara.

With a weak team compared to Saxo Toemke put in his best effort.

Hats off to Cancellara and Saxo and good on Boonen for a brave championship effort. Flecha and Sky also, as Rummsfield quoted you go to war with the Army you have.

All riders gave it there best today including the dimpled one George.

Hats off to all the riders.
 
Jul 26, 2009
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High Cotton said:
I believe that the disgust is with Flecha's hypocrasy, regarding the gesture at the end of the race..

disgust really?
what hypocrisy are you referring to ?
was it the clapping as he crossed the line?
wow, arent we being a bit judgmental .........
he clapped simply for having finished, he clapped for arriving in roubaix in a podium position, he clapped for himeself, he clapped for his team, you should check out his post race interview.............not to mention his throwing himself into fabians arms for a long ,strong hug , between two strong competitors who have been friends for years........
personally im wondering why more people arent offended about boonen crying after the race and complaining to the media, he was not going to win and that became evident at 49 km to go
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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lagartija said:
disgust really?
what hypocrisy are you referring to ?
was it the clapping as he crossed the line?
wow, arent we being a bit judgmental .........
he clapped simply for having finished, he clapped for arriving in roubaix in a podium position, he clapped for himeself, he clapped for his team, you should check out his post race interview.............not to mention his throwing himself into fabians arms for a long ,strong hug , between two strong competitors who have been friends for years........
personally im wondering why more people arent offended about boonen crying after the race and complaining to the media, he was not going to win and that became evident at 49 km to go

The only way Boonen could have won is if he had a team and they worked for him. I still thought the chasing group Boonen was in was **** poor and unmotivated. Still their choice if they want to ride for second that is OK. 11 strong pros couldn't catch SPARTACUS?
 
Francois the Postman said:
I think it's easy to come up with all these "should have done" arguments, but I bet that the actual options left in the suitcase of courage, 200+km into Roubaix, more pave and headwind ahead, and a Swiss rider who has been reigning supreme during the entire cobbles season, will seriously mess with what people can muster on the last 50kms.

In other races, groups are often the sum of its parts, but I can think of few Roubaixs where any group was more than a sliver better than the strongest legs present. And today, the sum of those legs was thundering off into a galaxy far far away.

I don't think that Boonen was that stupid to attack as often as he did, just before Cancellara went. Boonen didn't jump to escape, he jumped to dwindle. He felt isolated and wanted to even things out, by reducing the amount of riders that still had team members with them. He has frequently done that and it usually has worked out reasonably well, even in the very recent past. If he had succeeded and had indeed been the last one left with Cancellara "as before", we wouldn't question that strategy one moment. We probably would even applaud him for racing strongly.

Looking back it is easy to see Boonen's moment of weakness in glorious HD. But up until earlier this afternoon you would have been told to get your head examined if you suggested that anyone would stupid enough to jump away at that point in the race, into that wind, with shy of 50k left on the clock. After his pave attacks, he went back to check the damage, and it was substantial. Boonen had some food, all good in any normal race, and then was caught out by someone who actually felt about another 20k stronger than most of us thought on the limit of super bloody brilliant already.

So today he was super bloody brilliant and a half. I've tried to imagine what the thought process must have been, when someone find himself ith 50k of Roubaix and wind ahead, and decides that moment there is "the perfect time to go", and not 20k later. From that group. I'm still giggling.

And since this is PR, they all know that the strongest legs do win here, they know their own legs, they see what sits around them, and whose race the 2010 edition was. The very moment he went, after those first 50 meter he took, I think everyone knew exactly they had all been reduced to also rans, at a point in the race when their head was dealing with totally different things. The "normal" thing to expect. No-one seemed too sure how to handle that. I don't think this was an endgame anyone was ready to face, or able to face.

What you saw for a long while was a group that bit by bit comes to the realization that it is indeed game over, and that they have 40+km to go. No-one too sure what that means for the rest of the race. All of these have riders have "lived" PR, as a legend and as a race. And none of them had been in anything remotely like this. They all knew what to expect, and still didn't know what hit them.

We're 200km into Roubaix. And it might not have been wet, I have heard many riders say this was a particular tough one. Some said that in this one, the paves were actually the easiest bit, that this time was always gonna be about the bits in between. That hard.

It must have been one hell of a smack onto planet Earth that the guy they all expected took off, 50k out. (feel free to mentally insert that faceplant photo). And you see how people react when they are feeling the effort put in already. By his own account, Boonen even forgot to eat during the part of the race that followed, and he was the stronger one. What does that tell you about the real organisational claw-back capabilities of this group.

It's nice to suggest "if they had worked together" or "x was hiding", but these were already the last few left standing with quite a bit of the race to go. There is no hiding in PR. It is a monstrously tough slow uphill ride that never gets above sea level, and you don't end up at the front cruising on other people's tails.

In most other races, you probably would indeed have seen a chance and attempt to work together and join forces. By people who still have that as an option in races that are less taxing. But "should have" is in no relationship to "could have" 200km into PR. Veterans as most of them are, it must have been one shock to find yourself 50k out and realize that in all honesty, you simply "don't have" what that guy who just left you "does have", today.

I think PR is one of those races where people slowly lose it in many many ways, body and head, and any weakness is exposed and usually fatal. Few groups count for anything in the final stages before the velodrome. We are used to see finals a bit closer to the end, but people always finish in PR where their own legs get them to.

No-one was racing or settling for 2nd that could have been racing for 1st. Not in this race. And racing for 2nd, well, everyone does that differently. Atypically, this time they had a long time to do it that way, fuelling our speculation what they should/could have done, as we had so much more of limbo on display then normal. But I think all the claw-back options were already off the table the moment Cancellera showed what his legs felt like, and everyone knew what that meant for all of them, eventually. And, in PR, inescapably.

Here, those last 48km were always for 2nd, however they were tackled. And no rider gets a top 5 in PR sucking wheels.

Whatever, we all know that Cancellara wasn't the real winner today.

The REAL winner was the ghost of Edvald Boasson Hagen's potential.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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skidmark said:
Whatever, we all know that Cancellara wasn't the real winner today.

The REAL winner was the ghost of Edvald Boasson Hagen's potential.

The REAL winner was me and my record standing for another year, and not matched by a pretty boy fake Belgian champ who doesn't even live in the country.:D
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
The REAL winner was me and my record standing for another year, and not matched by a pretty boy fake Belgian champ who doesn't even live in the country.:D

Oh Roger D. I idolize you. How is your brother?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Not the real RDV. Everybody knows that I joke around like this during the Classics, or most everybody. Even went through a bout last year where I was getting fan mail everyday. Sorry to disappoint.