'Suspect' performances

[isayic]

The Bradley Wiggins trasformation seems suspect. I think most people in this forum suspect something sketchy. Also Contador's ITT last year at the Tour when he beat Cancellara is suspect . AC is 61kg (130 lbs); how he beat Spartacus, who is around 80kgs (180 lbs), on a flat TT just doesn't make sense.

I'm one of the naive few that actually think riders are clean until proven otherwise; it takes a lot for me to suspect something. This year so far, nothing really stands out, nothing out of the ordinary. Maybe Vino's return, but that probably has more to do with his past transgressions.

The ITT Contador won at the Tour 2009 wasn't flat and as a great climber he could beat Cancellara.

 

[python]

The ITT Contador won at the Tour 2009 wasn't flat and as a great climber he could beat Cancellara.

this has been posted on the forum tree gazillion of times. but if you are a fan of texas it's simply a matter of 'suspectin' though kadence is a reasonable poster in most cases.

 

[Escarabajo]

Spartacus:

Oooops. Not that one, but this one:

Oooops again. Now this one:

 

[Escarabajo]

Sudden bursts in steep climbs after a hard stage:

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

The ITT Contador won at the Tour 2009 wasn't flat and as a great climber he could beat Cancellara.

Sorry it had a less than 300 meter climb somewhere in the middle. Whoopty doo

 

[Ripper]

Sorry it had a less than 300 meter climb somewhere in the middle. Whoopty doo

Agreed! ....

 

[Ripper]

Contra is suspect, IMO, always has been. Super TT. Super on climbs. Can jump really quickly. Spanish (OK, OK, just kidding )

FC this year may be just a bit too far ahead. Loses weight and is able to smoke Flanders, OK. Then TTs away from a pack of the best in PR, ummmm, OK. And I am a fan, but this might be a bit too much.

I know some masters who seem to have reached a 'new' level. F*ckers!!

Past stuff ...
Pretty much any time a pure climber slams it up a few levels in a TT by "digging deep into the suitcase of courage". Past performances - Pantani, Heras, the Chikon!, Kohl.

Anyone who joins JB's team and suddenly becomes a fantasic Time Trial machine and gets better with age (Levi, Popo, ummmmmm-Pharma).

 

[palmerq]

I dont know if it is so dodgy contador beating cancelara in the final tt.... i think cancelara is never as good in these ones as he is at the start of the tours.... also i am not sure if cancellara is epo dodgy...... when schumacher was at it he beat fabien twice in the time trials at the tdf that year(and the english guy(I think sean yates) in eurosport studio tipped him to win both time trials.... i think yates knew what was going on)..... so ehhh i forgot what i was talking about.... but i suspect that cancelara is not on epo or hard drugs.... and i think he has a history of fading as the tour goes on... I would say going through the mountains hurt him more than contador..... so even though it's an amazing performance from contador(and amazing performances are usually due to something).... I can believe both these two are ok...


although I usually have big suspicions for anyone who wins in the mountains and then wins in the time trials... I dont think teh two really go together :S


ps

I also looked through ptrevious paris roubaix results and saw the time to complete this years race was slower than most of the ones this decade and i think 30 minutes slower than some of boonens wins.... so I dont find this too unbelievable either.

I prefer to go on the side of non doping though.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I have a bit of a problem with this sort of thread, it is a little like monday morning quarterbacking (sorry Buckwheat). We take rides that could easily be explained by being the fallout of race strategy and because the proponent later tests positive, everybody wants to say 'see I knew it was too good to be true'.
Well guess what, those guys tested positive because their program wasn't as good, or they were doing it on their own, or somebody just plain screwed up, or the UCI picked them to make an example of.
To raise the eyebrows at Ricco's performance or DiLuca's or Landis' or Basso's or Ullrich's, suggests that we think that Contador and Menchov and Valverde and Armstrong and so on are all clean, and I think that is a pipe dream.

 

[Escarabajo]

I have a bit of a problem with this sort of thread, it is a little like monday morning quarterbacking (sorry Buckwheat). We take rides that could easily be explained by being the fallout of race strategy and because the proponent later tests positive, everybody wants to say 'see I knew it was too good to be true'.
Well guess what, those guys tested positive because their program wasn't as good, or they were doing it on their own, or somebody just plain screwed up, or the UCI picked them to make an example of.
To raise the eyebrows at Ricco's performance or DiLuca's or Landis' or Basso's or Ullrich's, suggests that we think that Contador and Menchov and Valverde and Armstrong and so on are all clean, and I think that is a pipe dream.

+1.

No need to add anything.

 

[Inner Peace]

The thing about Contador's 'unbelievable' TT in 2009 is that there has to be a huge number of considerations, most of which have already been said:

1. It was in the final week of a GT

2. It did have a cat 3 climb in it, so it certainly wasn't flat. If it was, we wouldn't have seen Lance Ulrich struggling up the climb like we did...

3. Look at the time splits from the top of the climb to the finish line - Cancellara smoked Contador.

If the time trial was 42, 43, 44, 45km long, Cancellara wins by 10-25 seconds and we wouldn't even be discussing this. Geez, if the time trial was 50km, Contador loses his typical 1 minute to Cancellara anyway...

The 40km Annecy TT was just not a direct comparison of the world champion vs the champion GT rider that everyone makes it out to be.

Put Contador in the worlds TT in Switzerland - he wouldn't make the podium because he is a GT all-rounder, which means he wins because he can climb and TT in grand tours over 3 weeks... Whilst i'd love to see Spartacus live the dream of an Indurain type GT winner, he ain't no 3rd week rider yet, but Contador is, with his greatest asset being 'recovery'.

This post did not accuse nor defend either alleged doper, just explainin the TT results..

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Clean Cuddles suddenly who has suddenly got the ability to outsprint and outclimb dirty dopers like Vino, Garzelli, Basso...

Must be the 'confidence' of the rainbow jersey and the new team of his...

 

[superconfex]

Clean Cuddles suddenly who has suddenly got the ability to outsprint and outclimb dirty dopers like Vino, Garzelli, Basso...

Must be the 'confidence' of the rainbow jersey and the new team of his...

That gets me...Mr squeaky voice cuddles has upped his game yet no one points the finger....... why???

 

[taiwan]

That gets me...Mr squeaky voice cuddles has upped his game yet no one points the finger....... why???

You just did.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

That gets me...Mr squeaky voice cuddles has upped his game yet no one points the finger....... why???

Because he is an english speaker rather than a nasty old European or even worse, East European?

It's funny because for years when Cuddles was wheelsucking his way up mountains, having bouts of roid rage with cameramen etc, we were always told that he had to ride like this because he was on his absolute limit, giving everything, had no team support.

Then all of sudden, in a contract year, in which he had sucked more balls than a ***** on payday, he suddenly discovered his climbing and attacking ability, just in time to become World Champion... now with super-attacking Cuddles, winning a classic, wearing pink and suddenly able to beat the obviously (because he won LBL riding away from everyone else) doped Vino.

Whatever, BMC are putting in his tea it is good stuff. Just a shame that the team's drugs budget only seems to stretch to giving the mix to Cuddles.

I wonder what the reaction of professional Cuddles fanboy Dave Harmon would have been if Vino had been the one out sprinting Cuddles?

 

[superconfex]

You just did.

Oh yeah so i did...
i find it strange how he's gone from wheelsucker all his career never showing the cojones to even take to the front of a small group to this all singing/dancing winner.
The bloke looks almost embarassed when he wins; from the worlds to today.

Must stress i'm in the camp of clean till caught

 

[hfer07]

Because he is an english speaker rather than a nasty old European or even worse, East European?

It's funny because for years when Cuddles was wheelsucking his way up mountains, having bouts of roid rage with cameramen etc, we were always told that he had to ride like this because he was on his absolute limit, giving everything, had no team support.

Then all of sudden, in a contract year, in which he had sucked more balls than a ***** on payday, he suddenly discovered his climbing and attacking ability, just in time to become World Champion... now with super-attacking Cuddles, winning a classic, wearing pink and suddenly able to beat the obviously (because he won LBL riding away from everyone else) doped Vino.

Whatever, BMC are putting in his tea it is good stuff. Just a shame that the team's drugs budget only seems to stretch to giving the mix to Cuddles.

I wonder what the reaction of professional Cuddles fanboy Dave Harmon would have been if Vino had been the one out sprinting Cuddles?

That myth of the "Spaniards,the Italians & everyone in between are the only ones doping-but never the Anglo-Saxon riders" BS has to stop. Everyone does regardless nationality.

BTW when you beat the dopers there are only two options:
*you are Lance Armstrong (doper never caught)
*you have doped as much as the dopers you've beaten

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That myth of the "Spaniards,the Italians & everyone in between are the only ones doping-but never the Anglo-Saxon riders" BS has to stop. Everyone does regardless nationality.

BTW when you beat the dopers there are only two options:
*you are Lance Armstrong (doper never caught)
*you have doped as much as the dopers you've beaten

David Moncoutié beat Contador, Valverde and Evans up the Col de la Madeleine last year, without losing any of his advantage. If we are to contend that Moncoutié is a doper, then cycling is dead.

 

[hfer07]

David Moncoutié beat Contador, Valverde and Evans up the Col de la Madeleine last year, without losing any of his advantage. If we are to contend that Moncoutié is a doper, then cycling is dead.

agreed-but Moncoutie is an specimen in via to extinction & TBO he hasn't been known as a GT contender. the argument revolves around how Evans won today ahead of ex/current dopers & nobody dares to question his performance, because he's Australian.....

 

[Anonymous]

agreed-but Moncoutie is an specimen in via to extinction & TBO he hasn't been known as a GT contender. the argument revolves around how Evans won today ahead of ex/current dopers & nobody dares to question his performance, because he's Australian.....

No everyone assumes evans is clean because he hasnt won much up to now. Im actually pleased for cadel, he is finally turning into the rider he should have been for the last 10 years. I do hope hes doing it the right way though and not letting phonak mkII be created.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

That myth of the "Spaniards,the Italians & everyone in between are the only ones doping-but never the Anglo-Saxon riders" BS has to stop. Everyone does regardless nationality.

BTW when you beat the dopers there are only two options:
*you are Lance Armstrong (doper never caught)
*you have doped as much as the dopers you've beaten

Indeed, perhaps someone should tell that to the english language media.

When Vino powered away from everyone in LBL, Dave Harmon nearly had a heart attack about it and how the evil Vino had obviously returned to his doping ways.

When Cuddles powers away from the likes of Dertie Contador, or today when he powers away from the evil Vino, Dave Harmon declares the ride to be 'brilliant, fantastic, etc etc'.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if the situation had been reversed today and Vino had been the one outsprinting Cuddles? Would Vino's ride have been 'fantastic, brilliant and brave' in the eyes of Harmon etc, or further evidence that he is back to his old tricks.

Vino being from the FSU, riding for dirty old T-Mob and then Astana, as well as his 'friends' like Ferrari are taken as proof that he is dirty, while Evans who has ridden for clean teams like T-Mob, Mapei and Saeco, as well as having friends like Sassi (pupil of Ferrari) is considered to be clean as whistle.

Evans' new found attacking prowess, after years of being the most conservative, negative rider in the peloton, is just due to the 'confidence' that winning the WC gives you... I guess this must be the Australian equivalent of post-cancer weight loss...

 

[Anonymous]

Indeed, perhaps someone should tell that to the english language media.

When Vino powered away from everyone in LBL, Dave Harmon nearly had a heart attack about it and how the evil Vino had obviously returned to his doping ways.

When Cuddles powers away from the likes of Dertie Contador, or today when he powers away from the evil Vino, Dave Harmon declares the ride to be 'brilliant, fantastic, etc etc'.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if the situation had been reversed today and Vino had been the one outsprinting Cuddles? Would Vino's ride have been 'fantastic, brilliant and brave' in the eyes of Harmon etc, or further evidence that he is back to his old tricks.

Vino being from the FSU, riding for dirty old T-Mob and then Astana, as well as his 'friends' like Ferrari are taken as proof that he is dirty, while Evans who has ridden for clean teams like T-Mob, Mapei and Saeco, as well as having friends like Sassi (pupil of Ferrari) is considered to be clean as whistle.

Evans' new found attacking prowess, after years of being the most conservative, negative rider in the peloton, is just due to the 'confidence' that winning the WC gives you... I guess this must be the Australian equivalent of post-cancer weight loss...

Good to see you posting here. Keep stirring the pot, it needs some more agitation considering the number of Armstrong trolls who have shown up in recent weeks.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Indeed, perhaps someone should tell that to the english language media.

When Vino powered away from everyone in LBL, Dave Harmon nearly had a heart attack about it and how the evil Vino had obviously returned to his doping ways.

When Cuddles powers away from the likes of Dertie Contador, or today when he powers away from the evil Vino, Dave Harmon declares the ride to be 'brilliant, fantastic, etc etc'.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if the situation had been reversed today and Vino had been the one outsprinting Cuddles? Would Vino's ride have been 'fantastic, brilliant and brave' in the eyes of Harmon etc, or further evidence that he is back to his old tricks.

Vino being from the FSU, riding for dirty old T-Mob and then Astana, as well as his 'friends' like Ferrari are taken as proof that he is dirty, while Evans who has ridden for clean teams like T-Mob, Mapei and Saeco, as well as having friends like Sassi (pupil of Ferrari) is considered to be clean as whistle.

Evans' new found attacking prowess, after years of being the most conservative, negative rider in the peloton, is just due to the 'confidence' that winning the WC gives you... I guess this must be the Australian equivalent of post-cancer weight loss...

You are correct in highlighting the difference between Vino and the perception of some of the other riders within the Giro.

But two points you have made are incorrect/debatable - Evans was not on a 'contract year' last year, he actually broke his contract with Lotto to sign for BMC.

As for Also Sassi,he was part of the 'training staff' on Mosers hour record, but I don't believe he is a 'pupil of Ferraris'. Because when he became Coach at Mapei he and Squinzi requested that their riders stop consulting with Dr. Ferrari.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

I wonder what the reaction of professional Cuddles fanboy Dave Harmon would have been if Vino had been the one out sprinting Cuddles?

But Evans hasn't been banned and denied he did anything wrong. Isn't that obvious?

 

[karlboss]

This year he has won a classic he came 2nd in last year by timing his run and now has won a tough stage by keeping up with an attacking Vino (you'll note the others only came back when Evans was on the front) and then taking a good line into the final corner, which no doubt he learnt from vino's teammate. He hasn't won the Giro and even if he does I guarantee those who don't like him will say how soft the field is.

I still don't see this massive jump in form everyone talks about. This doesn't mean he's clean, just no dirtier than other years.