'Suspect' performances

[Ripper]

Indeed, perhaps someone should tell that to the english language media.

When Vino powered away from everyone in LBL, Dave Harmon nearly had a heart attack about it and how the evil Vino had obviously returned to his doping ways.

When Cuddles powers away from the likes of Dertie Contador, or today when he powers away from the evil Vino, Dave Harmon declares the ride to be 'brilliant, fantastic, etc etc'.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if the situation had been reversed today and Vino had been the one outsprinting Cuddles? Would Vino's ride have been 'fantastic, brilliant and brave' in the eyes of Harmon etc, or further evidence that he is back to his old tricks.

Vino being from the FSU, riding for dirty old T-Mob and then Astana, as well as his 'friends' like Ferrari are taken as proof that he is dirty, while Evans who has ridden for clean teams like T-Mob, Mapei and Saeco, as well as having friends like Sassi (pupil of Ferrari) is considered to be clean as whistle.

Evans' new found attacking prowess, after years of being the most conservative, negative rider in the peloton, is just due to the 'confidence' that winning the WC gives you... I guess this must be the Australian equivalent of post-cancer weight loss...

You obviously hate ... ummm ... what is Cuddles known for supporting? It's not Cancer ... (crickets) ... Oh yeah!

You obviously hate Tibet

 

[blaxland]

This year he has won a classic he came 2nd in last year by timing his run and now has won a tough stage by keeping up with an attacking Vino (you'll note the others only came back when Evans was on the front) and then taking a good line into the final corner, which no doubt he learnt from vino's teammate. He hasn't won the Giro and even if he does I guarantee those who don't like him will say how soft the field is.

I still don't see this massive jump in form everyone talks about. This doesn't mean he's clean, just no dirtier than other years.

+1 agree Karlboss and there is still 2 weeks of racing in the Giro left........But believing in someones innocence is a personal choice....just like ones choice to barrack for a particular rider or team......and yes us Aussies have failed test(Oniell,Sutherland and co)but Evans=no convitions.

 

[Von Mises]

nobody dares to question his performance, because he's Australian.....

What are you talking about? There are plenty of people and plenty of posts where his performances have been questioned. Maybe less than performances of some other riders, but thats not because he is australian, but because there is almost no evidence against him compared with some other riders.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Good to see you posting here. Keep stirring the pot, it needs some more agitation considering the number of Armstrong trolls who have shown up in recent weeks.

Thank you for the welcome.

The Cuddles-love fest was truly vomit inducing yesterday, especially after Harmon tried to introduce a daily 2 minute hate on Vino the other day.

 

[Hugh Januss]

+1 agree Karlboss and there is still 2 weeks of racing in the Giro left........But believing in someones innocence is a personal choice....just like ones choice to barrack for a particular rider or team......and yes us Aussies have failed test(Oniell,Sutherland and co)but Evans=no convitions.

Yes but technically speaking Armstrong = no convictions as well. So.......?

 

[gatete]

What are you talking about? There are plenty of people and plenty of posts where his performances have been questioned. Maybe less than performances of some other riders, but thats not because he is australian, but because there is almost no evidence against him compared with some other riders.

I think his rants/attitude has been questioned more than his performances, at least in this forum, I see not everybody likes Cadel, but I haven't seen any posts regarding suspicious performances, in fact one of the reasons he's not liked is because of his suckingwheels style.

 

[danjo007]

Clean Cuddles suddenly who has suddenly got the ability to outsprint and outclimb dirty dopers like Vino, Garzelli, Basso...

Must be the 'confidence' of the rainbow jersey and the new team of his...

no i dont think so at all.
hes ALWAYS had the ability, but had up until a year ago to get the balls to act upon it, rather than follow all the time.
he rode far too defensively, and blamed it on not having the team around him.
problem is now, he doesnt have a lot more years left in him. he needed the kick in the pants 3-4 years ago.

 

[Martin318is]

So Evans must be doped if he was able to beat Vino - because Vino IS doped? Up until the start of the Giro, there were very few people who seriously entertained the idea of Evans doping but now he is doing well its all swinging the other way.

I know that Vino WAS doped in the past but there isn't any actual evidence other than some disappointed suspicion that he IS doping again now. (Yes I saw L-B-L and whilst that was suprising, its not "amazing")

Looking at Vino's face during stage 7, I saw someone struggling pretty much since the Nibali/Basso crash. He attacked and was strong but he was suffering a bit too.

If it turns out that vino ISN'T doped this year, do we then say Evans isn't either or do people just think Evans is doped and are looking to be able to 'prove it'?

 

[Martin318is]

The Evans and Vino thing is being discussed specifically over Here anyway...

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

no i dont think so at all.
hes ALWAYS had the ability, but had up until a year ago to get the balls to act upon it, rather than follow all the time.
he rode far too defensively, and blamed it on not having the team around him.
problem is now, he doesnt have a lot more years left in him. he needed the kick in the pants 3-4 years ago.

Well he hardly has a team around him now. So why the sudden change?

For years we were told that Cuddles couldn't attack, that he was using every inch of his talent to hang onto the likes of Dertie, Chicken, Piti, Poison Dwarf etc, and all of a sudden he has found an extra reserve of talent he never had before to beat Dertie and evil doped up Vino. And this is all down to a sudden realisation that he is getting old or the sudden discovery of his balls?

That is like claiming that a near death experience turned a poor man's Laurent Brochard into the best climber and TTer of his generation using willpower alone.

That said Cuddles' balls probably are involved, but only in providing a welcoming home to Landis Patch or two.

 

[Cerberus]

Well he hardly has a team around him now. So why the sudden change?

For years we were told that Cuddles couldn't attack, that he was using every inch of his talent to hang onto the likes of Dertie, Chicken, Piti, Poison Dwarf etc, and all of a sudden he has found an extra reserve of talent he never had before to beat Dertie and evil doped up Vino. And this is all down to a sudden realisation that he is getting old or the sudden discovery of his balls?

That is like claiming that a near death experience turned a poor man's Laurent Brochard into the best climber and TTer of his generation using willpower alone.

That said Cuddles' balls probably are involved, but only in providing a welcoming home to Landis Patch or two.

While I'm not going to argue that Evans is clean I don't think the transformation is that startling. He's always placed well in GT's and hilly classics. He is now doing slightly better. It's not even slightly comparable to Armstrongs transformation. I suppose he could have changed his program, but I don't think it's the only explanation.

ETA: Who is Poison Dwarf?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

The Poison Dwarf is Armstrong's mini-me, aka bottle aka Leipheimer.

The question that was asked at the beginning of the thread was for people to say what they thought were suspect performances. I find the sudden transformation into attacking Cuddles unbelievable/suspect given what we were told about him before.

We were told that he couldn't attack because he had no team support - all of sudden without any team support he is able to attack.

We were told that he couldn't attack, or would struggle to bridge gaps because he was using every inch of his talent - all of sudden he has found some extra talent and is attacking and bridging with no problem.

We are told that this transformation is due to the 'confidence' of winning the WC, the sudden 'discovery' of balls.

Now what would the reaction be if an equally defensive rider like say Menchov were to suddenly start winning classics and attacking/bridging with no problems? Would it be down to the 'confidence' of winning the Giro? The discovery of balls or the realisation that he doesn't have many years left? Menchov beats the dirty DDL and this is proof that Menchov is dirty, while Cuddles beating the dirty Vino is not proof...

Cuddles gets an easy ride from people and the english language media because he is an english speaker, if Cuddles were Russian, you can bet your life that the knives would be well and truly out for him, just like the knives were for Vino after LBL.

IMO the best you can say is that it is double standards when it comes to calling out doped performances, at worst you can say that it is fuelled by xenophobia towards non-english speaking riders.

 

[Zoncolan]

The Poison Dwarf is Armstrong's mini-me, aka bottle aka Leipheimer.

The question that was asked at the beginning of the thread was for people to say what they thought were suspect performances. I find the sudden transformation into attacking Cuddles unbelievable/suspect given what we were told about him before.

We were told that he couldn't attack because he had no team support - all of sudden without any team support he is able to attack.

We were told that he couldn't attack, or would struggle to bridge gaps because he was using every inch of his talent - all of sudden he has found some extra talent and is attacking and bridging with no problem.

We are told that this transformation is due to the 'confidence' of winning the WC, the sudden 'discovery' of balls.

Now what would the reaction be if an equally defensive rider like say Menchov were to suddenly start winning classics and attacking/bridging with no problems? Would it be down to the 'confidence' of winning the Giro? The discovery of balls or the realisation that he doesn't have many years left? Menchov beats the dirty DDL and this is proof that Menchov is dirty, while Cuddles beating the dirty Vino is not proof...

Cuddles gets an easy ride from people and the english language media because he is an english speaker, if Cuddles were Russian, you can bet your life that the knives would be well and truly out for him, just like the knives were for Vino after LBL.

IMO the best you can say is that it is double standards when it comes to calling out doped performances, at worst you can say that it is fuelled by xenophobia towards non-english speaking riders.

+ 1............

 

[ak-zaaf]

The Poison Dwarf is Armstrong's mini-me, aka bottle aka Leipheimer.

The question that was asked at the beginning of the thread was for people to say what they thought were suspect performances. I find the sudden transformation into attacking Cuddles unbelievable/suspect given what we were told about him before.

We were told that he couldn't attack because he had no team support - all of sudden without any team support he is able to attack.

We were told that he couldn't attack, or would struggle to bridge gaps because he was using every inch of his talent - all of sudden he has found some extra talent and is attacking and bridging with no problem.

We are told that this transformation is due to the 'confidence' of winning the WC, the sudden 'discovery' of balls.

Now what would the reaction be if an equally defensive rider like say Menchov were to suddenly start winning classics and attacking/bridging with no problems? Would it be down to the 'confidence' of winning the Giro? The discovery of balls or the realisation that he doesn't have many years left? Menchov beats the dirty DDL and this is proof that Menchov is dirty, while Cuddles beating the dirty Vino is not proof...

Cuddles gets an easy ride from people and the english language media because he is an english speaker, if Cuddles were Russian, you can bet your life that the knives would be well and truly out for him, just like the knives were for Vino after LBL.

IMO the best you can say is that it is double standards when it comes to calling out doped performances, at worst you can say that it is fuelled by xenophobia towards non-english speaking riders.

Totally true. You didn't even have to mention that he went to Phonak 2

 

[superconfex]

The Poison Dwarf is Armstrong's mini-me, aka bottle aka Leipheimer.

The question that was asked at the beginning of the thread was for people to say what they thought were suspect performances. I find the sudden transformation into attacking Cuddles unbelievable/suspect given what we were told about him before.

We were told that he couldn't attack because he had no team support - all of sudden without any team support he is able to attack.

We were told that he couldn't attack, or would struggle to bridge gaps because he was using every inch of his talent - all of sudden he has found some extra talent and is attacking and bridging with no problem.

We are told that this transformation is due to the 'confidence' of winning the WC, the sudden 'discovery' of balls.

Now what would the reaction be if an equally defensive rider like say Menchov were to suddenly start winning classics and attacking/bridging with no problems? Would it be down to the 'confidence' of winning the Giro? The discovery of balls or the realisation that he doesn't have many years left? Menchov beats the dirty DDL and this is proof that Menchov is dirty, while Cuddles beating the dirty Vino is not proof...

Cuddles gets an easy ride from people and the english language media because he is an english speaker, if Cuddles were Russian, you can bet your life that the knives would be well and truly out for him, just like the knives were for Vino after LBL.

IMO the best you can say is that it is double standards when it comes to calling out doped performances, at worst you can say that it is fuelled by xenophobia towards non-english speaking riders.

^
This... he bridged another gap today against 4 Astanas

 

[peloton]

The Poison Dwarf is Armstrong's mini-me, aka bottle aka Leipheimer.

The question that was asked at the beginning of the thread was for people to say what they thought were suspect performances. I find the sudden transformation into attacking Cuddles unbelievable/suspect given what we were told about him before.

We were told that he couldn't attack because he had no team support - all of sudden without any team support he is able to attack.

We were told that he couldn't attack, or would struggle to bridge gaps because he was using every inch of his talent - all of sudden he has found some extra talent and is attacking and bridging with no problem.

We are told that this transformation is due to the 'confidence' of winning the WC, the sudden 'discovery' of balls.

Now what would the reaction be if an equally defensive rider like say Menchov were to suddenly start winning classics and attacking/bridging with no problems? Would it be down to the 'confidence' of winning the Giro? The discovery of balls or the realisation that he doesn't have many years left? Menchov beats the dirty DDL and this is proof that Menchov is dirty, while Cuddles beating the dirty Vino is not proof...

Cuddles gets an easy ride from people and the english language media because he is an english speaker, if Cuddles were Russian, you can bet your life that the knives would be well and truly out for him, just like the knives were for Vino after LBL.

IMO the best you can say is that it is double standards when it comes to calling out doped performances, at worst you can say that it is fuelled by xenophobia towards non-english speaking riders.

+1
well said

 

[Von Mises]

The Poison Dwarf is Armstrong's mini-me, aka bottle aka Leipheimer.

The question that was asked at the beginning of the thread was for people to say what they thought were suspect performances. I find the sudden transformation into attacking Cuddles unbelievable/suspect given what we were told about him before.

We were told that he couldn't attack because he had no team support - all of sudden without any team support he is able to attack.

We were told that he couldn't attack, or would struggle to bridge gaps because he was using every inch of his talent - all of sudden he has found some extra talent and is attacking and bridging with no problem.

We are told that this transformation is due to the 'confidence' of winning the WC, the sudden 'discovery' of balls.

Now what would the reaction be if an equally defensive rider like say Menchov were to suddenly start winning classics and attacking/bridging with no problems? Would it be down to the 'confidence' of winning the Giro? The discovery of balls or the realisation that he doesn't have many years left? Menchov beats the dirty DDL and this is proof that Menchov is dirty, while Cuddles beating the dirty Vino is not proof...

Cuddles gets an easy ride from people and the english language media because he is an english speaker, if Cuddles were Russian, you can bet your life that the knives would be well and truly out for him, just like the knives were for Vino after LBL.

IMO the best you can say is that it is double standards when it comes to calling out doped performances, at worst you can say that it is fuelled by xenophobia towards non-english speaking riders.

What a huge pile of BS. What are exactly his suspect performances? ein at FW, race what he finished 5th a year ago, and 2nd two years ago? Second place at Giro´s GC standing, a minute behind Vinokurov who was away for two years and 20 seconds before Nibali, who just week ago did not even know he was going to ride a Giro?

If you want to mudsling Evans, then use at least some arguments instead of BS innuendo. This has nothing to do with language. There are plenty of non-english riders (Sastre, Contador, Schlecks, Sanchez´es etc) who have gotten "free pass".

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Simmer down tiger. Only Cuddles is allowed to have a temper tantrum like that.

Why shouldn't Cuddles be questioned over his performances? - They seem to me to be totally out of character from the dull, conservative, wheelsucking Cuddles we have come to know and love over the last few years.

Mudslinging? No, just calling what I see. I see a rider, who if it were anyone else making these kind of improvements they would be called out. Just like the evil Vino was called out after LBL.

Actually, Dertie and the Schlecks get a very rough ride. Sastre was widely considered for a while to be the 'amigo de Birillo', Dertie's LSW-OP-Ferrari-Disco/Astana links are widely commented on. The contents of Johny Schlecks car boots was much discussed as well in the past. Just read through this thread.

I think you ought to go and have a lie down in a darkened room before you hyperventilate and fall over.

 

[Von Mises]

What rough ride you are talking about? Sastre, Contador, Sanchez, Schlecks have gotten no rough ride. There have been titbits here and there, but generally "free pass".
And even if there have been some talk (mostly by "all are doped crowd"), then, you see, there have been some links.
I guess that in your mind this has been Evans fault and the fault of English-speaking media, that French customs are searching daddy Schleck car instead Evans´s or Chiara´s car. All those French custom people just love english speaking riders, but are so-so xenophobic towards luxembourgish, right?
And I guess this is Evan´s fault that his name has not been found in "files", that his name has not been linked to doctor this and doctor that?

Btw, in you own post you actually give the reason why Evans gets free pass - there is just no evidence, no links, no files, no doctors, no blood bags, no suspensions etc. You dont think that maybe this is the reason why there is so little speculation about Evans? Instead of inventing xenophobia, maybe "no evidence" is the reason, you dont think so?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Nurse, send in the screens.

Nice to see that Cuddles has his own brand of demented fanboy and they aren't just the domain of the Uniballer.

The Schlecks, Dertie, Menchov etc have been talked about elsewhere. No need to go over old ground.

So will you be demanding the same standards of evidence against all other riders or just where Cuddles is concerned? Where were you when Vino was being attacked post LBL? Were you demanding evidence then? or do you only demand evidence when it suits you, or when your hero is being criticised?

The evidence is in the change in Cuddles' riding and results, the evidence is in his team history. Amazing all these riders coming into the best form of their lives at 32+: Cuddles, Vino, Horner, Poison Dwarf, Garzelli, FP.

If you want to point the finger at those riders, or at whoever you want then go for it.

I'll bet that if Cuddles were Cuddlesov, and was riding how he has been you'd be first in the queue to cry doper. But because he is one those brave Aussie boys, he must be clean and its all down to the 'confidence'.

 

[happychappy]

When Soppy Sastre blew past Cuddles in 2008, Cuddles would have been on him like **** on a blanket with this years 'form'.

 

[Escarabajo]

The Poison Dwarf is Armstrong's mini-me, aka bottle aka Leipheimer.

The question that was asked at the beginning of the thread was for people to say what they thought were suspect performances. I find the sudden transformation into attacking Cuddles unbelievable/suspect given what we were told about him before.

We were told that he couldn't attack because he had no team support - all of sudden without any team support he is able to attack.

We were told that he couldn't attack, or would struggle to bridge gaps because he was using every inch of his talent - all of sudden he has found some extra talent and is attacking and bridging with no problem.

We are told that this transformation is due to the 'confidence' of winning the WC, the sudden 'discovery' of balls.

Now what would the reaction be if an equally defensive rider like say Menchov were to suddenly start winning classics and attacking/bridging with no problems? Would it be down to the 'confidence' of winning the Giro? The discovery of balls or the realisation that he doesn't have many years left? Menchov beats the dirty DDL and this is proof that Menchov is dirty, while Cuddles beating the dirty Vino is not proof...

Cuddles gets an easy ride from people and the english language media because he is an english speaker, if Cuddles were Russian, you can bet your life that the knives would be well and truly out for him, just like the knives were for Vino after LBL.

IMO the best you can say is that it is double standards when it comes to calling out doped performances, at worst you can say that it is fuelled by xenophobia towards non-english speaking riders.

Let's wait to see what happens on the third week, not the first one. Remember that the third week performance is key to draw better conclusion. We knew Evans had a big talent but he can be competitive even with dopers if he is "clean" (I don't know) during the first week.

 

[Von Mises]

Nurse, send in the screens.

Nice to see that Cuddles has his own brand of demented fanboy and they aren't just the domain of the Uniballer.

The Schlecks, Dertie, Menchov etc have been talked about elsewhere. No need to go over old ground.

So will you be demanding the same standards of evidence against all other riders or just where Cuddles is concerned? Where were you when Vino was being attacked post LBL? Were you demanding evidence then? or do you only demand evidence when it suits you, or when your hero is being criticised?

The evidence is in the change in Cuddles' riding and results, the evidence is in his team history. Amazing all these riders coming into the best form of their lives at 32+: Cuddles, Vino, Horner, Poison Dwarf, Garzelli, FP.

If you want to point the finger at those riders, or at whoever you want then go for it.

I'll bet that if Cuddles were Cuddlesov, and was riding how he has been you'd be first in the queue to cry doper. But because he is one those brave Aussie boys, he must be clean and its all down to the 'confidence'.

Oh, I am so cool.

Yes, I would demand same standards about other riders. I have not attacked Vinukorov or italians or spaniards or etc. And I am myself from Eastern Europe, so dont patronize me and dont put your own prejudices in my mouth. Thank you.

 

[Nick777]

Let's wait to see what happens on the third week, not the first one. Remember that the third week performance is key to draw better conclusion. We knew Evans had a big talent but he can be competitive even with dopers if he is "clean" (I don't know) during the first week.

+1.
We are going a bit early, here.
Evans may blow spectacularly in the third week for all we know.

 

[Nick777]

Nurse, send in the screens.

Nice to see that Cuddles has his own brand of demented fanboy and they aren't just the domain of the Uniballer.

The Schlecks, Dertie, Menchov etc have been talked about elsewhere. No need to go over old ground.

So will you be demanding the same standards of evidence against all other riders or just where Cuddles is concerned? Where were you when Vino was being attacked post LBL? Were you demanding evidence then? or do you only demand evidence when it suits you, or when your hero is being criticised?

The evidence is in the change in Cuddles' riding and results, the evidence is in his team history. Amazing all these riders coming into the best form of their lives at 32+: Cuddles, Vino, Horner, Poison Dwarf, Garzelli, FP.

If you want to point the finger at those riders, or at whoever you want then go for it.

I'll bet that if Cuddles were Cuddlesov, and was riding how he has been you'd be first in the queue to cry doper. But because he is one those brave Aussie boys, he must be clean and its all down to the 'confidence'.

I personally feel that he was in the best form of his life in the 2008 tour, but was beaten by a combination of a great team, and a bad crash. Not to mention 2007, when Contador got him by 20 odd seconds in the tour. If I recall, no time bonuses would have made it even closer.
Evans isn's doing much different than he has always done.
He lead this race 8 years ago, if you recall.
He is very consistent & is nearly always thereabouts in most races, all season long.
He nearly always has a bad-ish day in GT's & loses time when he many feel he shouldn't.
The main difference this year is that
a) he won Fleche Wallonne, after being close a few times before, & many people put that down to timing & experience on the last climb (& Contador's inexperience), and
b) winning a stage of the Giro that suited him down to the ground, given his upbringing on mountain bikes.
Does this mean he is clean? Who knows, but there doesn't seem to be much talk to suggest otherwise.