Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[JoãoRamos]

But he finished with them due to racing circunstances. Wasn't Pogacar so much better than Van Baarle in 2022? Well, Pogi ended behind him. Any person using the argument he was at the same level as Wout/Pedersen/Stuyven is just dishonest. Without Pogacar, MVP would be alone after Koppenberg and they would only see him on the podium.

Totally agree.

And I have a hard time right now seeing VDP winning over Pog the Ronde.
Pog will be the one to break the record.

 

[Cycling111]

Experience is irrelevant to level at a given time, Van der Poel wasn't half the rider he was in 2021 compared to now.

RVV is a race of fine margins that blow up once over the last Kwaremont, and fine margins fell Pogacar's way the last 2 times.

To me it's akin to claiming Nadal is superior to Djokovic at the US Open because of H2H in the finals, rather than looking at overall track record.

Experience is always important, but especially when it's not your usual terrain. And let's not conflate sports; running 100 meters isn't the same as a cycling race where knowing every corner of a cobbles section helps.
Tennis has its unique characteristics, cycling has others. And if there's one race where experience matters, it's the ones with the highest risk of accidents, such as cobblestone corners and secgtions entries.

In Roubaix, experience is very important, especially for someone who trains half the year for the TDF.
In Roubaix, knowing every corner helps.
I'm convinced that Pogacar, or Brenan, won't make the same mistakes they could have made yesterday in their second Roubaix.


The fact that he was so good in his debut is independent of the fact that experience is very important compared to riders who have been riding Roubaix for four years, plus four years of training. .
The experience of knowing every cobbled section, corner, isn't the same as doing watts on a climb. Winning in a mountain depends of w/k; but in a Roubaix experiencience help to avoid crashing on a cobbled corner,
know every corner....

Hinault punctured three times in his first Roubaix, had an accident... in the second, he had fewer incidents, in the third, fewer, and in the fourth, he won.

The fact that Pogacar is so good makes us overlook the importance of experience in a cobblestone race. That's a mistake.
Even Mathieu, who has won three consecutive Roubaix races, didn't win his first one and said he's learned from some mistakes. How can experience on cobblestones not be important for a TDF rider?


In 2022, Pogacar saw where he did the most damage in Flanders and where he needed to break away from Mathieu. If Pogacar had gone to Flanders in 2021, he'd probably have won in 2022.

Say that experience doesn't matter in cobbles race invalidates any debate.

 

[TiesjBenoot]

But he finished with them due to racing circunstances. Wasn't Pogacar so much better than Van Baarle in 2022? Well, Pogi ended behind him. Any person using the argument he was at the same level as Wout/Pedersen/Stuyven is just dishonest. Without Pogacar, MVP would be alone after Koppenberg and they would only see him on the podium.

I think two things can be true at the same time

1.) He was better than Wout/Pedersen/Stuyven .... but the difference was smaller than usual
2.) Being not at 100% (maybe 99%/98%).... of course u get Punished by Pog in this form, and end up regretting it and finishing with Group2

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think two things can be true at the same time

1.) He was better than Wout/Pedersen/Stuyven .... but the difference was smaller than usual
2.) Being not at 100% (maybe 99%/98%).... of course u get Punished by Pog in this form, and end up regretting it and finishing with Group2

Then we agree. We probably only disagree in one thing: you believe MVP would be strong enough to follow Pogacar and I don't. But it's okay to disagree, this what makes a forum enjoyable and fascinating.

 

[Salvarani]

Think he can skip Amstel if he wants a weekend off

 

[JoãoRamos]

Think he can skip Amstel if he wants a weekend off

Yes, he probably will skip Amstel and La Flèche.
He needs LBL.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Think he can skip Amstel if he wants a weekend off

He did 4 races in the last 50 days. He has time to rest after LBL.

 

[Savant12]

Pog will learn from this experience and come back stronger next time. We are witnessing two beasts of the Classics go head-to-head again and again and it makes it interesting.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Never forget he decided to skip E3 and GW instead of AGR and FW

 

[Salvarani]

He did 4 races in the last 50 days. He has time to rest after LBL.

Lol, cmon. Thats just a weird way to look at it given the last two weeks.

No problem at all if he just decides to only do LBL. Skip any or both of Amstel and Fleche.

 

[Salvarani]

Yes, he probably will skip Amstel and La Flèche.
He needs LBL.

We will see. LBL is the priority anyway.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Lol, cmon. Thats just a weird way to look at it given the last two weeks.

No problem at all if he just decides to only do LBL. Skip any or both of Amstel and Fleche.

Never forget he decided to skip E3 and GW instead of AGR and FW

Of course it is okay but I don't want to see him just racing LBL. The Ardennes treble can be won.

 

[JoãoRamos]

Never forget he decided to skip E3 and GW instead of AGR and FW

Yes, he skipped a few races, but let’s not forget how physically and mentally demanding these monuments truly are. After the Tour of Flanders, riders like Jorgenson openly said they were completely empty, in need of a break.

It’s easy for us, as fans, to take Pog for granted, to see him as some kind of machine who can perform at the highest level week after week, month after month. But he’s human. And managing that fatigue, both mental and physical, is crucial if he’s to peak exactly when it matters most. In this case, that’s Liège–Bastogne–Liège, which has always been the priority.

Of course, I’d love to see him go for the Ardennes treble. Who wouldn’t? But I also understand the toll it takes to race at such an elite level so consistently. Knowing when to rest is part of what makes a champion last.

 

[Froome]

Pogacar is the real DS of the team. It depends on this year's Tour: if he loses to Vingegaard then he'll likely be pursuaded to skip the cobbles and focus more on stage-racing in 2026.

I don't think it makes any difference for him skipping the cobbles in terms of preparation for the Tour. The only risk is a crash.

Nevertheless he can do a even more light calendar. He doesn't need to go to Amstel, FW or strade bianche every year, because he already won those races.

Tour Emirates
Milan san remo
Tour flandres
Paris roubaix
LBL

Dauphine
Tour

 

[Cycling111]

Did u see Mvdp in E3, SanRemo and Roubaix?
He was not even close in Flanders!

If he would, he would ride away and finish with Pog or X seconds behind him but still way in front of Pedersen,Wva and Stuyven.

To claim, he gots destroyed by Pog(to close to the sun) and thats why he finsihed with group 2 is ridiculous if u consider his races in 2025.....
(that does not mean he would win or finish with Pog... thats something different).

Race circumstances.

Pogacar finished behind Nairo Quintana and six worse riders than him in the Granon. Was Pogacar worse than Quintana the previous days in that Tour? He arrived worse than Quintana that day due to the race circumstances.

Without Pogacar, Mathieu would'cee won Flanders in 2023 and 2025 alone.

Without Pogacar, Vingegaard would'vee won Paris-Nice in 2023, not behind Gaudu.

Without Van der Poel, Pogacar wouldn't have finished behind Ganna in San Remo.

Without Pogacar, Philipsen was second in Roubaix in 2023 and 2024.
Without Pogacar, Philipsen would've been second again yesterday; with Pogacar, Philipsen would've finished destroyed. Without Pogacar, wouldn't Philipsen have done better in Roubaix than Florian Vermeerchs yesterday? He would've been on the podium; look where Philipsen finished.

Without Pogacar, Remco would probably have won WC in Zurich; he wouldn't have argued with Jorgenson in a chase.

 

[Peyroteo94]

.

Without Pogacar, Remco would probably have won the World Championship in Zurich, he wouldn't have had to argue with Jorgenson in the chase.



Race circumstances.

Pogacar finished behind Nairo Quintana and six worse riders than him in the Granon. Was Pogacar worse than Quintana the previous days in that Tour? He arrived worse than Quintana that day due to the race circumstances.

Without Pogacar, Mathieu would'cee won Flanders in 2023 and 2025 alone.

Without Pogacar, Vingegaard would'vee won Paris-Nice in 2023, not behind Gaudu.

Without Van der Poel, Pogacar wouldn't have finished behind Ganna in San Remo.

Without Pogacar, Philipsen was second in Roubaix in 2023 and 2024.
Without Pogacar, Philipsen would've been second again yesterday; with Pogacar, Philipsen would've finished destroyed. Without Pogacar, wouldn't Philipsen have done better in Roubaix than Florian Vermeerchs yesterday? He would've been on the podium; look where Philipsen finished.

Without Pogacar, Remco would probably have won WC in Zurich; he wouldn't have argued with Jorgenson in a chase.

Perfect post

 

[Cycling111]

Perfect post

Thanks.

Granon stage is a good example. Perhaps using the example of Pogacar losing makes it seem easier, without hate.

Pogacar was far superior to Quintana throughout the Tour, and that day he was overtaken by Quintana, Bardet, Ciccone... That's what happens when you're pushed to the limit. Although he was the second strongest, he finished eighth behind worse riders.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't think it makes any difference for him skipping the cobbles in terms of preparation for the Tour. The only risk is a crash.

Nevertheless he can do a even more light calendar. He doesn't need to go to Amstel, FW or strade bianche every year, because he already won those races.

Tour Emirates
Milan san remo
Tour flandres
Paris roubaix
LBL

Dauphine
Tour

Not only that. There's a reason GT specialists prepare doing stage-races+training instead of cobbles! The buildup is different, efforts as well (Flandres and PR = going really deep, which is destructive to the body compared to a carefully planned training which is advantagous). It requires some form peak as well.

On top of that Pogi is probably at least 2 kilos heavier now than his TdF start weight (he mentioned 67 kg for the cobbled spring classics once). Muscles probably constitute a significant part of that difference and it takes some effort to get back to his optimal weight at the Tour start (64.5-65 kg).

Last year was an example of typical stage-racing buildup by Pogacar. The effect was amazing.

 

[JoãoRamos]

Not only that. There's a reason GT specialists prepare doing stage-races+training instead of cobbles! The buildup is different, efforts as well (Flandres and PR = going really deep, which is destructive to the body compared to a carefully planned training which is advantagous). It requires some form peak as well.

On top of that Pogi is probably at least 2 kilos heavier now than his TdF start weight (he mentioned 67 kg for the cobbled spring classics once). Muscles probably constitute a significant part of that difference and it takes some effort to get back to his optimal weight at the Tour start (64.5-65 kg).

Exactly that.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not only that. There's a reason GT specialists prepare doing stage-races+training instead of cobbles! The buildup is different, efforts as well (Flandres and PR = going really deep, which is destructive to the body compared to a carefully planned training which is advantagous). It requires some form peak as well.

On top of that Pogi is probably at least 2 kilos heavier now than his TdF start weight (he mentioned 67 kg for the cobbled spring classics once). Muscles probably constitute a significant part of that difference and it takes some effort to get back to his optimal weight at the Tour start (64.5-65 kg).

Last year was an example of typical stage-racing buildup by Pogacar.

Fully agree. It is not the same being 2 kilos heavier (pure muscle) and only 9 weeks to prepare the Tour. He needs to stress his body a lot to change from a classics program to a stage racing program.
If he was only focusing on stage racing, he would be one kg heavier and just practise TT and long climbs, just like last year. We all saw what he did last year when he was only focusing his performance in doing well in long climbs.

 

[Cycling111]

I expect Pogacar to pull from AGR and FW so he is 100% ready for LBL!
Would make sense...

I agree. The Ardennes treble will be news the next day. On the second day, no one will remember it. It doesn't matter.

If he hadn't didRoubaix...
Remco has also been recovering and training for many weeks. I think the reason he hasn't started before is because he wants to be at 250% and hope Pog arrives tired to Liege.

400 km before Liège seems to strong after his first experience in Paris-Roubaix.

 

[Cycling111]

Fully agree. It is not the same being 2 kilos heavier (pure muscle) and only 9 weeks to prepare the Tour. He needs to stress his body a lot to change from a classics program to a stage racing program.
If he was only focusing on stage racing, he would be one kg heavier and just practise TT and long climbs, just like last year. We all saw what he did last year when he was only focusing his performance in doing well in long climbs.

I have nothing against Vingegaard, but this year more than ever I hope Pogacar wins the Tour. Because if he loses, the team won't let him return to PR, and that would be a shame.

The two years he lost the Tour, he did Flanders. If he loses this year, he can say goodbye to Roubaix and Flanders too. Giro-Tour in 2026.

 

[Netserk]

Amstel is probably one of the races where Pog vs Evenepoel vs Van Aert could be most interesting.

With the re-introduction of the final Cauberg? No longer.

 

[jono]

Does it get tiresome knocking down the same straw man every day, having to argue against no one why Pog is the best ever and will win all the races? Or is this like a new sort of church?

 

[scribers]

I have nothing against Vingegaard, but this year more than ever I hope Pogacar wins the Tour. Because if he loses, the team won't let him return to PR, and that would be a shame.

The two years he lost the Tour, he did Flanders. If he loses this year, he can say goodbye to Roubaix and Flanders too. Giro-Tour in 2026.

I saw do them all! Monuments plus 2 GT and WC (when it makes sense)