Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[YavorD]

A disaster could still happen (crash, illness, terrible day) but his GC situation is great after the first mountain block. I mean 3 days ago some were wondering if he would be able to follow Jonas after the crash and now he's over 4 minutes ahead.

3 days ago people were giving up on the Tour because he was riding on an aero bike.

I mean, guy said he wasn't feeling well enough. Yet he still caught his main opponent SEATED and easily distanced him in a 200 meters sprint. All while he is in yellow with a gap of 4 minutes and evidently has the strongest teams. Despite "Yates being weak".
Get a grip.

 

[Peyroteo94]

A disaster could still happen (crash, illness, terrible day) but his GC situation is great after the first mountain block. I mean 3 days ago some were wondering if he would be able to follow Jonas after the crash and now he's over 4 minutes ahead.

You're right

 

[Cycling111]

Like everyone else, he looks a little tired. Besides, he won't sleep as well as he should because of the position of the arm.

 

[scribers]

I respect the way Visma is riding a lot. It's a lot smarter than it appears on screen and results. Guys up the road for positional dynamics, guys shipping it until tomorrow or the next, and Vingo putting digs in to test pogi.

 

[Cycling111]

I respect the way Visma is riding a lot. It's a lot smarter than it appears on screen and results. Guys up the road for positional dynamics, guys shipping it until tomorrow or the next, and Vingo putting digs in to test pogi.

With Sivakov like this, he'd be more helpful if he got into the breakaway in case Pogacar needed him.

Soler's pace isn't good either. It could be the other rider in the break.

They can't afford for Pogacar to have a bad day and repeat Finestre situation. Obviously, Pogacar isn't Del Toro, but since there are some domestiques incapable of setting high pace in peloto, it's better put some into the breakaway with Visma riders.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Like everyone else, he looks a little tired. Besides, he won't sleep as well as he should because of the position of the arm.

He doesn't look tired. If you want to see him tired, see WC 2023 in Glasgow

 

[Peyroteo94]

With Sivakov like this, he'd be more helpful if he got into the breakaway in case Pogacar needed him.

Soler's pace isn't good either. It could be the other rider in the break.

They can't afford for Pogacar to have a bad day and repeat Finestre situation. Obviously, Pogacar isn't Del Toro, but since there are some domestiques incapable of setting high pace in peloto, it's better put some into the breakaway with Visma riders.

Sivakov was ill but I think he won't improve much. Today, Pogacar lost the stage due to his weak performance

 

[Cycling111]

He doesn't look tired. If you want to see him tired, see WC 2023 in Glasgow

That's why I said little tired Look at the mark on his eyes.

He was devastated in Glasgow. Did that World Championship after the injury and the Tour de France and finishing third is one of his best performances.

 

[Skalman]

With Sivakov like this, he'd be more helpful if he got into the breakaway in case Pogacar needed him.

Soler's pace isn't good either. It could be the other rider in the break.

They can't afford for Pogacar to have a bad day and repeat Finestre situation. Obviously, Pogacar isn't Del Toro, but since there are some domestiques incapable of setting high pace in peloto, it's better put some into the breakaway with Visma riders.

Dont think Sivakov would be helpful for much of anything except to get bottles if he continues to ride as today.

 

[Rou]

That's why I said little tired Look at the mark on his eyes.

He was devastated in Glasgow. Did that World Championship after the injury and the Tour de France and finishing third is one of his best performances.

Nope. Looks don't show anything. Pog often looks like s*** honestly (no disrespect).
Remember Fleche Wallone? He looked the worst of all the guys but he destroyed them.
This is not a beauty contest and Pogacar multiple times this Tour has looked 'bad'.

 

[hayneplane]

I respect the way Visma is riding a lot. It's a lot smarter than it appears on screen and results. Guys up the road for positional dynamics, guys shipping it until tomorrow or the next, and Vingo putting digs in to test pogi.

It was completely pointless today as Jonas didn’t even attempt to attack from far enough out when Kuss and Yates were in position to either drop and pace hard or be there for Jonas to attack then get a brief breather on the wheel.

At least Kuss rode in the break with some purpose whereas Yates just floated around expending more energy than in the peloton but without ever looking like having any impact on the race.

 

[Rou]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvgqq5BYwjs&t=2140s

Go to 26:20 and listen to Broe's words. It's rare but this time he gets it. Pog wants no Vismas for the stage win but was fine with Arensman.
Not sure about the team classification but UAE actually reduced the gap with 5 mins to Visma today so who knows. LoL

 

[kingjr]

That's why I said little tired Look at the mark on his eyes.

He was devastated in Glasgow. Did that World Championship after the injury and the Tour de France and finishing third is one of his best performances.

Tbf, he was almost gifted that 3rd place by Mads Pedersen, though that doesn't diminish his performance.

 

[kingjr]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvgqq5BYwjs&t=2140s

Go to 26:20 and listen to Broe's words. It's rare but this time he gets it. Pog wants no Vismas for the stage win but was fine with Arensman.

But it was clear already after the Peyresourde that Visma wouldn't win the stage…

 

[Rou]

But it was clear already after the Peyresourde that Visma wouldn't win the stage…

Why? What if Thymen collapsed and Simon went up the road?
Jokes or not - the blacklist is real.

 

[rafa92]

Why? What if Thymen collapsed and Simon went up the road?
Jokes or not - the blacklist is real.

it was clear that neither yates nor kuss had any chance, they were dropped super early

 

[kingjr]

Why? What if Thymen collapsed and Simon went up the road?

What if he had been struck by lightning? For me, it was clear after Peyresourde that if anyone wins the stage from the break, it would be Arensman. There was definitely no reason to chase this hard anymore at the bottom of the final climb, unless they still had an eye on possibly winning the stage themselves.

 

[Unchained]

I respect the way Visma is riding a lot. It's a lot smarter than it appears on screen and results. Guys up the road for positional dynamics, guys shipping it until tomorrow or the next, and Vingo putting digs in to test pogi.

I came away exactly the opposite, Visma @10 days of constant heat, trying to pressure Pogacar for what looked like no obvious reason.
Visma demanding the absolute best, the limit of their riders, epic fail.
And the achievable objectives after mid race setbacks like stage wins still are possible, but today's efforts were complete disaster, Vingegaard still losing time to Pogacar, putting out obvious energy that Pogacar did not.. and in multiple ways,

UAE all hands on deck taking turns burying themselves to keep pace, Pogacar out of wind, out of trouble.
Visma riding again all over the place spent Yates, Kuss for not..Yates giving back 6+ today ,Sepp 8+ no stage, nothing.
And the other rider involved in all the controversy, he dropped completely again today, now 32+ minutes back in GC, and same... was nowhere in today's stage.
Your description of digs is accurate, I describe what I saw was Vigegaard doing unnecessary, fruitless uphill intervals that Pogacar countered, mouth closed, in the saddle, apparently easy effort..and the digs cost Jonas any energy reserves for final sprint.. It looked like there was only the most remote, unlikely scenario for Ving to lose any time to Pogacar, instead a micro gain for yellow jersey. Each day I ask what are Visma doing.. Each day I more puzzled than day before.. The time buffer that Vigegaard has can be conserved if managed intelligently.. I have no confidence that is going to happen.
And I completely agree with you that Jonas is testing Pog..my questions day after day are why? Why so often?
Impressed by post race interviews with Vingegaard, he is mentally very strong..

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I think it‘s clear that UAE just decided to go at 98% all day and see if that‘s enough to win without Pogačar having to kill himself for it. In the end it didn‘t work, but I don‘t think Pog‘s teammates could have gone that much faster anyway.

 

[Rou]

What if he had been struck by lightning? For me, it was clear after Peyresourde that if anyone wins the stage from the break, it would be Arensman. There was definitely no reason to chase this hard anymore at the bottom of the final climb, unless they still had an eye on possibly winning the stage themselves.

Of course if they had closed Arensman enough Pog would go. UAE didn't have the gas to bring the gap to 1 min. But he is not going with 5 kms to go to eat a 2:30 min gap.
He would need to go in the black to do that. No point in doing it.

 

[Lorzenz08]

I came away exactly the opposite, Visma @10 days of constant heat, trying to pressure Pogacar for what looked like no obvious reason.
Visma demanding the absolute best, the limit of their riders, epic fail.
And the achievable objectives after mid race setbacks like stage wins still are possible, but today's efforts were complete disaster, Vingegaard still losing time to Pogacar, putting out obvious energy that Pogacar did not.. and in multiple ways,

UAE all hands on deck taking turns burying themselves to keep pace, Pogacar out of wind, out of trouble.
Visma riding again all over the place spent Yates, Kuss for not..Yates giving back 6+ today ,Sepp 8+ no stage, nothing.
And the other rider involved in all the controversy, he dropped completely again today, now 32+ minutes back in GC, and same... was nowhere in today's stage.
Your description of digs is accurate, I describe what I saw was Vigegaard doing unnecessary, fruitless uphill intervals that Pogacar countered, mouth closed, in the saddle, apparently easy effort..and the digs cost Jonas any energy reserves for final sprint.. It looked like there was only the most remote, unlikely scenario for Ving to lose any time to Pogacar, instead a micro gain for yellow jersey. Each day I ask what are Visma doing.. Each day I more puzzled than day before.. The time buffer that Vigegaard has can be conserved if managed intelligently.. I have no confidence that is going to happen.
And I completely agree with you that Jonas is testing Pog..my questions day after day are why? Why so often?
Impressed by post race interviews with Vingegaard, he is mentally very strong..

Historically Vingo won big in 1 single stage. So I guess part of the strategy is to try their luck

 

[Cycling111]

Tbf, he was almost gifted that 3rd place by Mads Pedersen, though that doesn't diminish his performance.

Mads Pedersen doesn't give anything . And it's not the only time Pogacar has beaten Pedersen in a sprint. He also did it in San Remo 2023.

Pogacar's World Championship was heroic. VDP was training for the Tour, Van Aert retired early for the birth of his child and had more rest. Pedresen the same.
Pogacar arrived exhausted after his injury and the collapse in Loze.

Remco, who was really strong, judging by his ITT, was unable to fight in the main group.

That World Championship for Pogacar is one of his greatest physical and mental efforts. After the injury and the Tour, not everyone would have gone.

 

[Unchained]

Sivakov was ill but I think he won't improve much. Today, Pogacar lost the stage due to his weak performance

Pogacar lost the stage because Vingegaard didn't close the gap, yellow jersey riding, defending perfectly, to the point of gaining time on everyone.
And as added bonus UAE beat upYates, Soler,Navarez and asked a little less of guys who don't feel good. Pogacar likely listening to loud criticism that UAE eats too much of the candy, it cost Pogacar nothing to allow another rider, way off the back to have his day.. Intelligent racing, good sportsmanship, Pogacar taking time to congratulate winner as he sat on the ground, trying to recover.

 

[Rou]

My last rant about today is this:
I know how Pogacar looks when he is on the limit or cooked.
Le Lioran - bonked and can't get out of the saddle in a sprint
Amstel Gold - cooked himself and can't get out of the saddle in a sprint
Paris-Roubaix - the attack from MVDP after Arenberg put him on the limit and he had to take his time to recover
Today he was closing Vingegaard SEATED (like Stage 20 last year) and in the final sprint gapped him easily.
For a month I've been ranting that he held back in the Dauphine TT.
He held back today also.
That's my opinion.

 

[Unchained]

Historically Vingo won big in 1 single stage. So I guess part of the strategy is to try their luck

I agree and that's a smart play imo, just don't understand the all day team time trial strategy for first @11 stages before Vingegaard making as you say, proven move..
Very seldom would I think a team would be better off without a manager.