Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[scribers]

Poor Froome. He is gone in 2 days.
Netserk is also banned, Vingegaard lost 2 fans during this TdF.
Of course Vingegaard is more similar to LA than Pogacar, specially on their qualities and schedules.

I believe froomie has deleted his account

 

[Charlyghoul]

For grand tour goat he needs 6 tours and 2 giros and 2 vueltas. Or he needs 5 tours and 3 giros and 3 vueltas, something like that.

 

[scribers]

He’s younger now than when Armstrong started winning his seven

 

[pelotonIQ]

Tadej haven't ruled out racing the Vuelta, he will assess the situation and make his desicion in 1 week. My gut feeling is that he will race it.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I might be overvaluing the tour, but in my opinion the number of gts he needs is equal to the number of tours he needs. 6. In an era of (at least) two other all time great gt riders winning the big cheese 6 times would do it irrespective of how many times he bothers to race the other ones.
If he stops at 5 tours, i don't think he will ever have a case against merckx. He will most definitely never get close to five giro wins, and based on his career so far i think it is fair to say he will not suddenly start racking up loads of vueltas either to compensate. (Also, even if Pog has Jonas, Merckx had Gismondi)

sounds about right this , some are saying he is already the goat, as though Merckx and Hinault are racing against the local librarian on her way to work.

 

[scribers]

Tadej haven't ruled out racing the Vuelta, he will assess the situation and make his desicion in 1 week. My gut feeling is that he will race it.

I’m starting to hear Bruyneel when I read your posts

 

[Peyroteo94]

sounds about right this , some are saying he is already the goat, as though Merckx and Hinault are racing against the local librarian on her way to work.

Competition is bigger now. There is no doubt about that

 

[Charlyghoul]

Competition is bigger now. There is no doubt about that

Apart from Vingegaard I’m not sure if it is ?

 

[Peyroteo94]

For grand tour goat he needs 6 tours and 2 giros and 2 vueltas. Or he needs 5 tours and 3 giros and 3 vueltas, something like that.

Winning 6 TdF (with one Vuelta) puts him over Eddy. TdF is the biggest GT

 

[Peyroteo94]

Apart from Vingegaard I’m not sure if it is ?

I'm not entering in a debate about this again.
I will just leave this here: there are way more professional riders

 

[Charlyghoul]

I'm not entering in a debate about this again.
I will just leave this here: there are way more professional riders

More quantity but possibly less quality?
Pogacar has Vingegaard and Evenopoel.
Merckx had Poulidor, Pingeon, Ocana, Thevenet, Zoetemelk, Van Impe, and Gimondi.
Far from clear cut that today has bigger competition surely?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I believe froomie has deleted his account

Dumb bet.

More quantity but possibly less quality?
Pogacar has Vingegaard and Evenopoel.
Merckx had Poulidor, Pingeon, Ocana, Thevenet, Zoetemelk, Van Impe, and Gimondi.
Far from clear cut that today has bigger competition surely?

He beat an imperious Roglic in 2020, though he was coming off a Dauphiné crash.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Dumb bet.

He beat an imperious Roglic in 2020, though he was coming off a Dauphiné crash.

Roglic too, good point.
Still, I’d say the competition was probably better in Merckx time, Hinault had multiple tour winners in Fingon and Lemond in his era too.
A sign of how good Pogacar is? Maybe. Maybe racers were just quite a bit better back then. Very debatable.

 

[Peyroteo94]

More quantity but possibly less quality?
Pogacar has Vingegaard and Evenopoel.
Merckx had Poulidor, Pingeon, Ocana, Thevenet, Zoetemelk, Van Impe, and Gimondi.
Far from clear cut that today has bigger competition surely?

Let’s agree to disagree.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Definitely a more global spot now, but I’m not sure how the popularity in various countries compares now to the part. Guessing late 80s to 200”s was much bigger in us due to Lemond & Armstrong vs now, for example, but maybe that doesn’t translate to the development scene.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Winning 6 TdF (with one Vuelta) puts him over Eddy. TdF is the biggest GT

So 8 wins with 6 tours? I think maybe I would take Merckx 11 but very subjective, 6 tours and 9 overall then Pogacar is probably above.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Honestly. I think Pogi is already the BOAT. But to be the GOAT, 3 Tours, a Vuelta, and a P-R and he’s ahead of Hinault.

To be ahead of Merckx, sheesh - needs 3 Tours, Vuelta, another Giro or three, P-R at least once, plus keep racking up LBL and IL wins. Needs MSR, too. Can’t believe Merckx won it 7 times. That honestly to me shows that times have changed. Someone convince me he’d win it 7 times in this age.

But since the question was just about GTs, I’d say 3 more Tours, a Vuelta, and 2 or 3 more Giros or Vuelta and he’s #1.

Contador has 3,3,3 and no ones calling him anywhere close to the GOAT of GTs, so 4,1,0 is nowhere close either (even if he’s the BOAT…).

 

[Charlyghoul]

Honestly. I think Pogi is already the BOAT. But to be the GOAT, 3 Tours, a Vuelta, and a P-R and he’s ahead of Hinault.

To be ahead of Merckx, sheesh - needs 3 Tours, Vuelta, another Giro or three, P-R at least once, plus keep racking up LBL and IL wins. Needs MSR, too. Can’t believe Merckx won it 7 times. That honestly to me shows that times have changed. Someone convince me he’d win it 7 times in this age.

But since the question was just about GTs, I’d say 3 more Tours, a Vuelta, and 2 or 3 more Giros or Vuelta and he’s #1.

Contador has 3,3,3 and no ones calling him anywhere close to ththat GOAT of GTs, so 4,1,0 is nowhere close either (even if he’s the BOAT…).

Really, a lot does depend on how one views different eras and how good they were.
I think it’s only right that it’ll still take a lot of big wins by Pog to overtake Merckx, so it should be, there aren’t many sports where one guy is universally considered the goat, like Merckx is. Football, boxing, tennis, rugby , basketball, maybe only Usain Bolt for sprinting is on a level to Merckx. Even then , running for ten seconds or less is not comparable to cycling. Not really.
Personally I think Froome was quite unfortunate not to realise his potential until late in his career, he’d only won one of his grand tours before the age of 28, he could be the goat there if he’d had the start of some other riders.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Really, a lot does depend on how one views different eras and how good they were.
I think it’s only right that it’ll still take a lot of big wins by Pog to overtake Merckx, so it should be, there aren’t many sports where one guy is universally considered the goat, like Merckx is. Football, boxing, tennis, rugby , basketball, maybe only Usain Bolt for sprinting is on a level to Merckx. Even then , running for ten seconds or less is not comparable to cycling. Not really.
Personally I think Froome was quite unfortunate not to realise his potential until late in his career, he’d only won one of his grand tours before the age of 28, he could be the goat there if he’d had the start of some other riders.

If we’re going to play the could’ve should’ve would’ve GOAT game, it ain’t Froome! Contador if he’d chosen better teams and not pissed off Lance before he was disgraced or Roglic if he’d cycled as a youth, or Vingegaard if Pogacar didn’t exist or Remco if he didn’t have borderline personality disorder or Lance if he wasn’t a narcissistic *** or Lemond if he wasn’t shot by his brother-in-law.

Edit: JK about Remco; I am a fan.

 

[scribers]

Honestly. I think Pogi is already the BOAT. But to be the GOAT, 3 Tours, a Vuelta, and a P-R and he’s ahead of Hinault.

To be ahead of Merckx, sheesh - needs 3 Tours, Vuelta, another Giro or three, P-R at least once, plus keep racking up LBL and IL wins. Needs MSR, too. Can’t believe Merckx won it 7 times. That honestly to me shows that times have changed. Someone convince me he’d win it 7 times in this age.

But since the question was just about GTs, I’d say 3 more Tours, a Vuelta, and 2 or 3 more Giros or Vuelta and he’s #1.

Contador has 3,3,3 and no ones calling him anywhere close to ththat GOAT of GTs, so 4,1,0 is nowhere close either (even if he’s the BOAT…).

This is a really spot on summary. I find myself agreeing with everything.

I might add at least two more WCRR. One time trial would help. An Olympic gold (too greedy?).

 

[scribers]

Merckx is the only marker for pogi and quite possibly the only thing that will drive him through a prolific career. Because he is not in the same league mentally as the cannibal. That man was driven by psychosis

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It has to be said that UAE was pretty mediocre in the mountains. Lack of Almeida and relatively poor form of Yates made them inferior to Visma and cost Pogacar at least one stage. He was strong enough to fend off any challenges though. His decisive attack came at the base of a climb (Hautacam) after an uphill sprint by a hills specialist Narvaez.

 

[Red Rick]

It has to be said that UAE was pretty mediocre in the mountains. Lack of Almeida and relatively poor form of Yates made them inferior to Visma and cost Pogacar at least one stage. He was strong enough to fend off any challenges though. His decisive attack came at the base of a climb (Hautacam) after an uphill sprint by a hills specialist Narvaez.

It's really as simple as Kuss being a bit closer to his 2022 level and thus when he torches it the other domestiques are completely gone. And that's also down to wasting Adam Yates on the Giro/Tour. That and Almeida crashing.

 

[Salvarani]

It has to be said that UAE was pretty mediocre in the mountains. Lack of Almeida and relatively poor form of Yates made them inferior to Visma and cost Pogacar at least one stage. He was strong enough to fend off any challenges though. His decisive attack came at the base of a climb (Hautacam) after an uphill sprint by a hills specialist Narvaez.

Yates was very good Loze at least.

 

[BubbaChuck]

mercx was winning tour by 20 minutes,what competition.