Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Ilmaestro99]

Sanremo haters don't understand cycling

 

[Peyroteo94]

Sanremo haters don't understand cycling

I'm old enough to know how bad was MSR 20 years ago and general cycling fans didn't really care about this race.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Nobody was asking Eddy Merckx to do hundreds of podcasts, nobody wanted Eddy to do photo shoots and TV commercials for sponsor products, events and team media, constantly!! there was no such thing.
Merckx didn't tweet anything and in his era cycling news came through newspapers and magazines...
Tens of thousands of people didn't ask for clarification of comments that Merckx made in person or in print.
People were not stalking Merckx trying to intentionally cross paths while shopping, eating, going to church, haircut, coffee, getting a beer, enjoying a cigarette, rolling away from team house or his family residence to go training.. Just wasn't the amount of interest or connectivity, Eddy has said so.

UAE and Pogacar are likely to start to document his every activity, like podcasts, pre post race media, sponsorship commitments and race schedule that has him possibly in Australia, Middle East, Canada, throughout Western Europe, Africa.. Maybe commitment or 2 in China.. Some of that stuff is going to be turned down or completely eliminated and see if the reduction in schedule eases the mental strain being put on Pogacar..Is there good reasons for him to be ready to race in February and still be ripping for worlds at the end of September.. Maybe it's too much.

The best thing UAE could do is giving Pogacar the chance of doing his own schedule for a year once in a while.

 

[2WpK]

All these comments about how much competition a particular rider had does not make sense and should not be used to advance a viewpoint. If rider A is winning by huge margins and making the competition look weak, then who is to say whether the competition is truly weak or rider A is that dominant.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The fact is it was a heyday for one day riders in Merckx era , and he still was the best.
In his tour victories look at the top ten you will see grand tour winners on the podium in all of his wins bar one, I think.
Merckx is goat for a reason

One day races were belgian championships.

 

[Unchained]

All these comments about how much competition a particular rider had does not make sense and should not be used to advance a viewpoint. If rider A is winning by huge margins and making the competition look weak, then who is to say whether the competition is truly weak or rider A is that dominant.

Your points are all perfectly valid..
You may want to add the out of the blue behavior of a 26 year year old world recognized athlete, who just won his sports biggest test, TDF, is currently the World Champion of his sport, that same person, instead of being on top of the world, stated that he is tired, stressed and is contemplating retirement in near future. That same athlete changing his mind about competition in another of 3 grand tours that he previously enthusiastically committed to race in.
I say this in complete seriousness, what Tadej Pogacar has done and said in the days and weeks following his historic victory is reason for a 5 alarm fire alarm!!

 

[SHAD0W93]

I always thought Roubaix , San remo, Flanders, Lombardy , liege.
My reasoning is flanders and Roubaix are right next to each other, and flanders is the inferior, so that elevates San remo somewhat.
Liege is in a part of the season when there are other hard classic like Amstel, Lombardy is sort of out on its own , also it’s one monument where heavy guys struggle so makes it unique.
Anyway that’s my reasoning.

With this logic MSR should be number one. RVV is in the same part of other hard classics like E3, GW, and DdV while PR is in the same part as RVV.

 

[Charlyghoul]

With this logic MSR should be number one. RVV is in the same part of other hard classics like E3, GW, and DdV while PR is in the same part as RVV.

Well that’s just how I see them, everyone has their own favourites.
Flèche even used to be more important than liege

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The best thing UAE could do is giving Pogacar the chance of doing his own schedule for a year once in a while.

He has a chance to get it but at least win #5 at the TdF is needed.

 

[BubbaChuck]

lol what do you need to win san remo.tactical genius of following pogacar for 30km and than winning sprint after he did 90% of the work.it clearly shows who is stronger.

 

[Charlyghoul]

One day races were belgian championships.

Milan San remo was the most international one , that might be true , how many did Eddy win of those again?
How many worlds?

 

[Charlyghoul]

lol what do you need to win san remo.tactical genius of following pogacar for 30km and than winning sprint after he did 90% of the work.it clearly shows who is stronger.

Merckx will do the work and still win, he did it 7 times

 

[Panda Claws]

There is also another consideration that Pog is an average descender, Merckx was one of the best.
If Pog had an edge anywhere it is in pure climbing , but he needs to take another leap in performance from 23-25, he has to do the same again in order to put Merckx in trouble. Even if he has a gap over Merckx of 90 seconds over a mountain Eddy is making that up on the descent.
Pog doesn’t have the all round racing ability to beat Merckx

1'30" in a descent?
What?

If this were true there'd be contenders putting 30" to 1' into Pogacar in descents.

Some takes on here are just odd.

 

[Charlyghoul]

1'30" in a descent?
What?

If this were true there'd be contenders putting 30" to 1' into Pogacar in descents.

Some takes on here are just odd.

Some of the best descenders could do that to Pog, Merckx was a great descender. Depending on the descent , but it’s a factor that could be important if they raced against each other

 

[QueenStagiaire]

How often does @Charlyghoul need to do this so people realise he just likes to troll a bit.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He has a chance to get it but at least win #5 at the TdF is needed.

It's not important for UAE to win 5 TdF. It's important to have the biggest star in cycling to race the biggest race in the world.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Milan San remo was the most international one , that might be true , how many did Eddy win of those again?
How many worlds?

Worlds were also ruled by belgians. Cycling was a sport for 4/5 nations (small nations were way less represented in cycling), this is a fact.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Worlds were also ruled by belgians. Cycling was a sport for 4/5 nations (small nations were way less represented in cycling), this is a fact.

Well you could say it’s a sport for every nation now but where’s the competition? The big races are dominated by the same 2 or 3 guys. Does it matter that the rest of the peloton is more cosmopolitan?

 

[Charlyghoul]

The worlds were not ruled by Belgians at all, from 63 -76 only one Belgian won apart from Merckx. There weren’t any other Belgians on the podium for any of Merckx wins.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Well you could say it’s a sport for every nation now but where’s the competition? The big races are dominated by the same 2 or 3 guys. Does it matter that the rest of the peloton is more cosmopolitan?

It matters. You look to Worlds and Slovenia is weak despite having Pogacar so it's easier to beat Pogacar there for example.
However there are more "big nations". Now we also have Danmark, Australia, USA, Canada, Colombia, Ecuador (Carapaz and Narvaez), even small european nations like Slovakia, Slovenia are growing in cycling.
This is a big difference. Remco would be a PR and RVV winner 50 years ago since competition were only belgians. WVA the same. And we all know they have 0 wins in these races, in fact Remco doesn't even race them.

 

[Berniece]

Well you could say it’s a sport for every nation now but where’s the competition? The big races are dominated by the same 2 or 3 guys. Does it matter that the rest of the peloton is more cosmopolitan?

It's still not a sport for every nation. There are 523 cyclists in the World Tour, coming from 39 countries. 446 out of 523 riders come from Europe. Seventy percent comes from Western Europe and just half of the World Tour-Peloton is born in four countries. France stands at one with 81, Belgium on two with 72, followed by Italy (which does not even have a World Tour team) with 57 and the Netherlands with 49. More than one in five World Tour riders comes from the BeNeLux.

 

[Charlyghoul]

It matters. You look to Worlds and Slovenia is weak despite having Pogacar so it's easier to beat Pogacar there for example.
However there are more "big nations". Now we also have Danmark, Australia, USA, Canada, Colombia, Ecuador (Carapaz and Narvaez), even small european nations like Slovakia, Slovenia are growing in cycling.
This is a big difference. Remco would be a PR and RVV winner 50 years ago since competition were only belgians. WVA the same. And we all know they have 0 wins in these races, in fact Remco doesn't even race them.

By that logic, Belgium should have dominated the worlds in Merckx era if they had the strongest teams? Actually they didn’t win many at all except for Merckx.
There was a danish tdf winner in the 90’s, American and Irish winners in the 80s.
Colombians were already podiuming or winning grand tours in the 80’s

 

[Charlyghoul]

Remco wouldn’t win P-R or Flanders, he’d have the same problem he has now, he can’t beat Pog or Van der Poel, and he wouldn’t beat Merckx or De Vlaeminck

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's not important for UAE to win 5 TdF. It's important to have the biggest star in cycling to race the biggest race in the world.

Absolutely but if he gets #5 then, considering how much his results have promoted UAE, the sponsor may allow him one year without the Tour.

 

[Peyroteo94]

By that logic, Belgium should have dominated the worlds in Merckx era if they had the strongest teams? Actually they didn’t win many at all except for Merckx.
There was a danish tdf winner in the 90’s, American and Irish winners in the 80s.
Colombians were already podiuming or winning grand tours in the 80’s

IIRC, Merckx raced in the 60s and 70s.
Merckx raced 13 WC RR, these are the winner nations:
Belgium - 5
Netherlands - 2
Italy - 4
Germany - 1
UK - 1

These are startlists from every WC RR Merckx won.

Startlist for World Championships ME - Road Race 1967

Competing teams and riders for World Championships ME - Road Race 1967. Top competitors are , and .

www.procyclingstats.com

Startlist for World Championships ME - Road Race 1971

Competing teams and riders for World Championships ME - Road Race 1971. Top competitors are , and .

www.procyclingstats.com

Startlist for World Championships ME - Road Race 1974

Competing teams and riders for World Championships ME - Road Race 1974. Top competitors are , and .

www.procyclingstats.com

I'm not putting startlists from other years but as you can see, Belgium was heavily favored to win WC. Less nations and Belgium had clearly more riders than a lot of other nations.
You can't run away from this.

IMO PCS is a reliable source but if someone knows these startlists are incorrect, please tell me, I don't want to have an opinion based on incorrect facts.