Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Berniece]

Some very strong guys will aim for a podium spot so they are not in this case.

I think it's a silly way to approach the race. Don't work with him, and attack when the group gets to a standstill... Enough riders have won a race when not being the strongest.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think it's a silly way to approach the race. Don't work with him, and attack when the group gets to a standstill... Enough riders have won a race when not being the strongest.

I get what you mean: just everybody racing against Pogacar so it's more chaotic and he has to work harder. But different riders and teams have different tactics and goals. So it's not that likely that such a perfect agreement will take place.

 

[Netserk]

If Roglic wants to have a chance he needs to go early. Like he did in TDF, other great riders will join him probably

Rogla can play the role Pogi had in Montreal and bridge across to Pogi.

 

[Cycling111]

McNulty finished 18th in today's sprint, and easily beat Pogacar in the sprint. Washed

 

[Berniece]

Rogla can play the role Pogi had in Montreal and bridge across to Pogi.

In what world? He can maybe play the role of McNulty but without working for Pogacar and focusing on himself

 

[Netserk]

In what world? He can maybe play the role of McNulty but without working for Pogacar and focusing on himself

If Pogi attacks far from the finish again, Rogla can tag along in the chase, and if they make the gap bridgeable, he can then counter and ride across to Pogi, where they'll then be two against the rest rather than solo.

 

[Berniece]

If Pogi attacks far from the finish again, Rogla can tag along in the chase, and if they make the gap bridgeable, he can then counter and ride across to Pogi, where they'll then be two against the rest rather than solo.

So first Pogacar needs to go solo early, then other countries keep the gap at 20-30s, and then Roglic attacks and no one is able to follow him? Chances of that are very unlikely

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If Pogi attacks far from the finish again, Rogla can tag along in the chase, and if they make the gap bridgeable, he can then counter and ride across to Pogi, where they'll then be two against the rest rather than solo.

Maybe the other way around. Roglic and other guys attack from distance and later Pog decides to counter-attack from the peleton to chase victory.

 

[Netserk]

So first Pogacar needs to go solo early, then other countries keep the gap at 20-30s, and then Roglic attacks and no one is able to follow him? Chances of that are very unlikely

O'Connor reduced the gap to Pogi by 53" in the last lap. So even if he builds an advantage of 40"-60", a chase group that cooperates after the doms are done can reel him in (somewhat). When all other captains have worked hard and reduced the gap to 10"-20", Rogla can then attack or counter one of the moves in the group as the freshest rider in the race.

 

[Netserk]

Maybe the other way around. Roglic and other guys attack from distance and later Pog decides to counter-attack from the peleton to chase victory.

Pogi can't afford that risk. Other countries may attack over and over again from the peloton rather than pull for Pogimort.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogi can't afford that risk. Other countries may attack over and over again from the peloton rather than pull for Pogimort.

That's why Pog will put the hammer down to get rid of other guys who don't want to cooperate. As you said, others in the peleton may not cooperate if their teammates are ahead.

If you meant Pog shouldn't find himself behind a strong group (containing strong countries), then you are probably right.

 

[Netserk]

That's why Pog will put the hammer down to get rid of other guys who don't want to cooperate. As you said, others in the peleton may not cooperate if their teammates are ahead.

Even those without teammates ahead may prefer to attack with secondary captains than chase.

 

[Netserk]

Say Rogla attacks halfway through the race with a handful other captains. Slovenia have no helpers left, or only tired ones. The group quickly builds a gap while everyone mark each other behind.

Horrible situation for Pogi! He'd need to react quickly and solo across to the group. If he waits around, expecting other nations to chase and control it, he may instead see wave after wave of small attacks in the peloton as everyone tries to escape wonderboy.

Rogla ahead is never a credible bluff, everyone will still lean on Pogi. Rogla will want to grab his own chance, so he won't drop back from a group in order to pull for Pogi.

 

[Cycling111]

Roglic isn't very reliable in such long races. Slovenia shouldn't play that card unless Pogacar is distracted and the group is far behind. In a front group of Roglic with Healy or Carapaz, the Slovenian coach shouldn't be comfortable.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Say Rogla attacks halfway through the race with a handful other captains. Slovenia have no helpers left, or only tired ones. The group quickly builds a gap while everyone mark each other behind.

Horrible situation for Pogi! He'd need to react quickly and solo across to the group. If he waits around, expecting other nations to chase and control it, he may instead see wave after wave of small attacks in the peloton as everyone tries to escape wonderboy.

Rogla ahead is never a credible bluff, everyone will still lean on Pogi. Rogla will want to grab his own chance, so he won't drop back from a group in order to pull for Pogi.

Agreed. If the gap is growing and Pogi has no teammates (or other teams) to help then he will have no choice but to counter-attack.

 

[Oldman]

I get what you mean: just everybody racing against Pogacar so it's more chaotic and he has to work harder. But different riders and teams have different tactics and goals. So it's not that likely that such a perfect agreement will take place.

Add to the complication of "teams" are the parallel and more opaque trade team agendas....a UAE pro is a UAE pro. If he works in a break group; that'll last as long as the gap is bridgeable by Pog. That would be the plan unless somehow Pog communicates he hasn't got the legs and plays the pack controller against any strong guys not up the road for his UAE brothers. No one here would believe he prepared and travelled to this race to plan for that but it could be worst case scenario to be useful.
Whether that courtesy would extend to Roglic is another debate.

 

[Oldman]

Roglic isn't very reliable in such long races. Slovenia shouldn't play that card unless Pogacar is distracted and the group is far behind. In a front group of Roglic with Healy or Carapaz, the Slovenian coach shouldn't be comfortable.

While he might not have been he sounds like he's well prepared for this one. If Pogacar can't make the last big move the coach will have to get comfortable.

 

[Cycling111]

While he might not have been he sounds like he's well prepared for this one. If Pogacar can't make the last big move the coach will have to get comfortable.

Having Pogacar, it's a waste to compete in the World Championships with a rider who isn't Pogacar, and knowing that Roglic isn´t that strong when the race is very long. And we're talking about the current Roglic, he's not at the level he was a couple of years ago. But beyond that, that scenario raises sacrificing Pogacar.

I understand that some fans want Roglic to win, but if you were the national team coach and had Pogacar, you wouldn't even consider sacrificing him.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Agreed. If the gap is growing and Pogi has no teammates (or other teams) to help then he will have no choice but to counter-attack.

Roglic should know his place, but I doubt he will. He has been training for this specifically and for some strange reason decided to skip the ITT, so he won't go to Rwanda just to be a good boy. He's a scary rider for Pog in this race

 

[Berniece]

Having Pogacar, it's a waste to compete in the World Championships with a rider who isn't Pogacar, and knowing that Roglic isn´t that strong when the race is very long. And we're talking about the current Roglic, he's not at the level he was a couple of years ago. But beyond that, that scenario raises sacrificing Pogacar.

I understand that some fans want Roglic to win, but if you were the national team coach and had Pogacar, you wouldn't even consider sacrificing him.

Roglic has a free role.

 

[Netserk]

So I think Slovenia will play it as defensively as possible, and when he only has Rogla left, Pogi will start personally closing dangerous moves down before he takes off solo.

That's the scenario where Rogla on the last lap or penultimate lap may bridge across to Pogi.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Roglic has a free role.

Should be the last domestique, and thats all. You don't go into a race with Pogacar on this course, with that team, with multiple leaders. Everything for the king.

 

[Netserk]

Should be the last domestique, and thats all. You don't go into a race with Pogacar on this course, with that team, with multiple leaders. Everything for the king.

Maybe Rogla has a creative interpretation of what it means to be the last dom? He doesn't take orders, only suggestions.

 

[Cycling111]

The problem is if that Roglic will ride in a leading group and explode at the 250-kilometer against Ben Healy. A more likely scenario, while for that, they'll have to sacrifice a rider with better qualities than him for a 270-kilometer race.

We speak like fans here, with preferences. But a national coach has to do everything possible for his team to win will consider it crazy to have Pogacar in a rear group and that he doesn´t dispute the victory by giving preference to a rider with fewer victories than him in long races.

Roglic has been unlucky to be paired with someone undisputed, just as Van Aert was with Remco. A national coach is someone who has to choose the most reliable option to win, not based on desires.

Besides, Slovenia isn't Belgium; when Pogacar retires, they're less likely to have a chance. They're a team that has to try to seize the moment and go all out, like Slovakia did with Sagan. Sagan didn't have Roglic, but Sagan shouldn't have been sacrificed if there had been another Slovakian at the top level, but with less chances of winning. It's crazy to have Pogacar in a minor team like Slovenia and waste a year thinking about tactics with other riders, even if it's Roglic.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I open Worlds TT thread, Rogla, then go into Pogi thread, Rogla.

Guys.