Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Didinho]

When the Primus Classics passes trough my village, in the week before, my dad (community worker) said "we closed those potholes in the descent, couldn't imagine a peloton going 60 here". So I think most of the Flemish mayors take it upon themself to do this. Don't know about the Liege region, but I would think your village won't want to get in the newspapers for this crash bacause they haven't done (or overlooked) the work of a couple hours.

 

[Netserk]

When the Primus Classics passes trough my village, in the week before, my dad (community worker) said "we closed those potholes in the descent, couldn't imagine a peloton going 60 here". So I think most of the Flemish mayors take it upon themself to do this. Don't know about the Liege region, but I would think your village won't want to get in the newspapers for this crash bacause they haven't done (or overlooked) the work of a couple hours.

A benefit of local pride.

 

[Unchained]

San Diego has outstanding roads and bike paths, many miles of connected bike paths.. Right across the border in Tijuana and N. Baja the roads were poor, pot holes oh plenty.. We have had more rain in California and Baja California in @22 years.. The roads all over the Baja Peninsula are absolutely trashed.. some roads in my area have less than @50% pavement per kilometer in the worst cases. Many need to be completely repaved.
I personally worry about the Pogocar style.. It's not like the wiggle worm of Alberto Contador..were he looked like he was a rodeo cowboy being thrown from his bike.. But Pog does have a ton of upper body interaction and when he really attacks looks like he is trying to break the bar and stem off the bike by yanking on them.. Curious to see him maintain arm and upper body strength while having an injury that doesn't allow you to put lots of pressure and strain on the broken bone..

 

[rokovski]

He will smoke everyone for breakfast

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He will be ready in 3 weeks, because he cant play fifa, he will be treated with some pricy treatment like Marquez and Nadal.

 

[Oldermanish]

Think we need to realise that a good proportion of the peleton would have ridden over the pothole with no consequences because their tyres stayed intact.

Ok. So that's only relevant in that the rider in front of Tadej didn't see it. If you're at the front of splits you should be able to avoid hazards. I wouldn't blame anyone's tires as a first course. Do we know it was a tubeless and that helped cause the crash? I've been searching for any video since the race.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

He will smoke everyone for breakfast

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He will be ready in 3 weeks, because he cant play fifa, he will be treated with some pricy treatment like Marquez and Nadal.

Wow, a hand being broken is still no excuse for its vulgar placement 😉

Anyway, I hope he doesn't watch Ted Lasso and turn soft.

 

[Oldermanish]

When the Primus Classics passes trough my village, in the week before, my dad (community worker) said "we closed those potholes in the descent, couldn't imagine a peloton going 60 here". So I think most of the Flemish mayors take it upon themself to do this. Don't know about the Liege region, but I would think your village won't want to get in the newspapers for this crash bacause they haven't done (or overlooked) the work of a couple hours.

That would seem to be a local effort because the event is so important and a salute to locals that appreciate the honor of hosting and risks that will be taken.
Add recons, officials, fans and others trafficking over the area for several days and a bad construction effort is "ready" for race day. Locals should not be taking heat for this....sponsors and officials are charged and paid with forerunning the race route. At worst they could have had a banner and a guy waving off he risk. How f*cking hard is that?
A teammate of mine following several places back from a clueless crit racer unavoidably crashed over his bike after he hit a pothole everyone knew was there. The teammate broke his neck and the cerviacal displacement was in the -1mm range from total paralayis or death. The promoter apologized profusely and cancelled the race for future editions on the course. The incident was made more ironic by the fact that a member of the sponsoring team had a fatal heart event two years earlier. I was the first one to him when he landed in the planter at road's edge. He had no pulse. It had nothing to do with course conditions but I never forgot how risky the sport could be and that I wouldn't have another beer with that friend.
Bad conditions might be someone's idea of part of the Hard Man racing bible but cramming 170 guys on iffy country roads could have turned out worse than a broken risk.

 

[Nick2413]

Seriously, I think people who are outraged about this pothole are spoiled in regards to roads. Most roads in Germany now look like this, there are potholes everywhere. If nobody wants to spend the money on roads maintenance or close the roads for that for years, you think they do it just to have smooth roads for a bike race? Do you think there is just this one pothole in the whole stretch of road?
Many European roads look like streusel cake, it's normal, and you can also not put a sign to every single one.
Sorry for laughing, I just wonder if you have an idea what these streets usually look like...

Second topic is the fracture - a hand/wrist fracture can take a long time to heal and it can have serious implications for racing. Sure, you can get on the trainer immediately, but there are many movements of a bike racer that are difficult to perform if you can't hold the bars with all strength, especially sprinting.

Unfortunately I see it as a major setback for Pogacar.

Seriously, people expect a 260k bike route to look like a pristine racetrack. Everywhere I’ve ever ridden, driven, visited, has had potholes. It costs money to fix them. They spend money to fix some, but you can’t get them all.

 

[Lequack]

He will smoke everyone for breakfast

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He will be ready in 3 weeks, because he cant play fifa, he will be treated with some pricy treatment like Marquez and Nadal.

Awesome. Just Tadej smoking his breadstick

 

[Nick2413]

Awesome. Just Tadej smoking his breadstick

Crazy to think this random baggy t-shirted breadstick smoker is a genetic freak with an insane tolerance for hours of self inflicted pain. Runners and cyclists are always the most antithetical looking of athletes.

 

[Oldermanish]

Can you imagine what Steve Prefontaine could have done on a bike?

 

[Lequack]

On the topic of potholes

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/12hip85

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/12hip85/potholes/

 

[CyclistAbi]

@CyclistAbi

Thing is, as I have already pointed out multiple times elsewhere, helmets were introduced to (help) solve a serious issue.
Pogačar's injury isn't career-ending. It likely won't keep him from riding the Tour.

Such attitude isn't about taking safety seriously. I feel that indeed we came to this exact conclusions multiple times in the past discussions. If a broken bone can be avoided it should be avoided. Waiving it off by saying it's not like you are dead. This is just not about taking safety seriously.

I don’t know if it’s my sleep deprived brain or what but I fail to see how the airbag around the collarbone would help with a hand fracture, especially when we brought up arm and hand fractures will occur. This math just isn’t adding up. I don’t even know if driving the route is the answer. They should honestly ride it so they get a closer feeling to how the riders will feel when they’re on the roads. The NFL has the NFLPA for their players to be represented made up of former and current players. What if cycling had the same with their riders.

Air bag around wrist was a joke that somebody else made in this thread. So better address this question directly to that person. For this specific crash we more or less agreed that a proper solution would be a shovel of asphalt.

Looking at that picture it appeared a larger area had been marked for repair and the paint demarcation was aged. There is also patches of different age based on the asphalt discoloration. If I were to guess the organizers or someone did highlight for repair and some slacker did the minimum and probably told the organizing staff "all done". After you drive a few cars over that area it would ravel into a worse situation and Tadej followed someone that didn't see it. Going that fast in a tight pack doesn't give you any reaction time. Sucks, big time.

I read it in local news that that paint was already there. Before the race started. This is on how the organizers tried to "warn" the riders. With a bit of paint on the road. So at least we can say it doesn't work. That is things like sticking a flag in it and to expect the crash will be avoided. As somebody suggested something like this in this discussion. So in real world it doesn't work.

Maybe someone can figure it out but I am struggling to visualise how airbags on bikes could possibly work - technology or not?

Helmets are very easy - they sit on your head. Fashion wise we adjusted (yes I am from the pre helmet era). But where would an airbag sit on a race bike?

Not saying it’s impossible just saying it isn’t as simple as putting airbags in cars. There are many other safety aspects that can be considered first. Like too many motos and support vehicles?

Do motorcycles even have airbags? There are airbag jackets but with the emphasis on aerodynamics - and cooling - that presents other challenges for bike racing. So let’s worry about all the easy and obvious ways to improve safety first.

It was discussed in the crashes thread. When you for example watch Downhill and Super-G. This technology is already used and you likely didn't even notice it. Even at crash it doesn't look similar to the Michelin meme. Some day we will wear it in pro road cycling too. We are just not there yet.

P.S. As for Pogi i am glad to hear that he still might join the altitude trainings without much delay. But obviously the wrist still not being at 100%,

 

[RedheadDane]

If a broken bone can be avoided it should be avoided.

And sometimes, it can't.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And sometimes, it can't.

Yeah, there is no such thing as ideal world, but still there is a difference if 10 or 1 gets broken per month.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yeah, there is no such thing as ideal world, but still there is a difference if 10 or 1 gets broken per month.

You're specifically talking about collarbones, and apparently now wrists, as you might have noticed; those are in... rather moving parts of the body.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Nope. The wrist and apparel is something other people brought into this discussion. My suggestion from the get go was a shovel of asphalt.

P.S. We can discuss wrist and apparel specifically in the crashes thread. If you want that. Although i specialize in collarbone maybe there is something for the wrist too. Beats me.

 

[RedheadDane]

Nope. The wrist and apparel is something other people brought into this discussion. My suggestion from the get go was a shovel of asphalt.

I'm sure the people responsible didn't just randomly decide to skip a pothole. However, some times human error happens.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I'm sure the people responsible didn't just randomly decide to skip a pothole. However, some times human error happens.

You didn't read my initial reply i made today carefully. Yes they did exactly that. They took a spray paint can and painted a line around the hole. Prior to the race. To "warn" the participants. It was poor judgement at best but lets just call it for what it is. Negligence.

 

[RedheadDane]

You didn't read my initial reply i made today carefully. Yes they did exactly that. They took a spray paint can and painted a line around the hole. Prior to the race. It was poor judgement at best but lets just call it for what it is. Negligence.

Or they did that to mark it out to the "fixing crew" - those with the big equipment - and they just... missed it. Human error.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Or they did that to mark it out to the "fixing crew" - those with the big equipment - and they just... missed it. Human error.

Nope.

 

[RedheadDane]

Nope.

What else would you call it?
You think someone looked at the pothole, and decided that it could be fun to just... leave it?

 

[CyclistAbi]

What else would you call it?
You think someone looked at the pothole, and decided that it could be fun to just... leave it?

Yes. Someone looked at it and deiced a bit of paint will do. To "warn" the peloton. That is what i am saying. I read it in an article in the local news.

So basically UCI No. 1, from safety point of view, is worth at best a can of spray. A shovel of asphalt would be too much. And in the end hard to blame them. As why going the extra mile if you don't have to. The result is exactly the same.

It's just a wrist in the end and Pogi is likely training already for the Tour. Likely on the bike next day.

Anyway. I was surprised to read the paint was there to "warn" the peloton. That is on why i decided to mention it. As it indeed sounds a bit surreal. But there you have it. That is safety in today's peloton. Standard is set below even the imagination.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes. Someone looked at it and deiced a bit of paint will do. To "warn" the peloton. That is what i am saying. I read it in an article in the local news.

Still seems a bit unbelievable to me. Did you read a quote by someone straight up saying that had been the intention?

 

[CyclistAbi]

This is where i read it. Best if you use a translator on it.

Poglejte luknjo, ki je Pogačarja morda stala Toura! Ne morete verjeti, kaj so naredili organizatorji (foto + video)

Najboljši kolesar na svetu, Tadej Pogačar, je na dirki Liège-Bastogne-Liège, grdo padel in si zlomil dve kosti v zapestju.

ekipa.svet24.si

It says the source for this article is sudinfo.be. So somebody from Belgium can try to pin point the original article. Basically what it says is the spray was used before the race, to warn the peloton, and it got fixed 2 days after the crash.

P.S. If i understand correctly local population was making fun of it. Something in the lines of "filling the wells after it rains". Or maybe Belgian humor is a bit more specific. I don't know. We have Belgian fans on this forum and maybe they can chime in. But i agree with you it's hard to believe something like that to even be possible. To mark the crash spot upfront with some paint. Some next level safety for sure.