Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[nightowl]

I think a big part that went into the feeling that Bernal was going to dominate the Tour for several years, despite his win not being super convincing, was the team he was on. Ineos had won 6 Tours in a row (and 8 of the last 9) with 4 different riders. They had even had 2 riders on the podium 2 years in a row.

No other team looked like they could touch them in terms of preparing for, and winning the tour (or budget, for that matter).Add to that that Bernal was considered an absurdly young winner at 22 with lots of room to get better, and it looked like Ineos’ streak of dominance wasn’t coming to an end any time soon.

 

[Red Rick]

Bernal was hyped cmon. Ineos/Sky went out to pay to get him. He was the biggest talent in awhile. Everyone was saying "oh here we go" when they got him and Sosa. Then Sivakov as well. It was doomsday on here.

He was having a great season the year he won it. He had arrived.

I dont know what your angle is... it is just peculiar as always the stance you are taking.

I don't argue Bernal wasn't hyped. I argue he was always overhyped relative to the actual performances he put out.

But I don't consider it peculiar considering I was right 4 years ago

 

[Salvarani]

I don't argue Bernal wasn't hyped. I argue he was always overhyped relative to the actual performances he put out.

But I don't consider it peculiar considering I was right 4 years ago

He won P-N, Tour de Suisse and the Tour. 3rd in Catalunya.

He had a good season in 2018 as well.

If anything he was living up to the hype that had surrounded him.

How are you "right"? Because he hasnt won more, since then?

Had you predicted that he would suffer severe back issues and almost died in an accident, plus knew Pog and Vinge was just around the corner, I would be quite amazed.

 

[Netserk]

He was never better than Rogla. And he would never have reached his level.

 

[Extinction]

Cycling sometimes is a bit of being in the right place, at the right time. Quintana was always more talented than Bernal, always did better perfomances than him, but never won the Tour. Bernal won one Tour.

I don't agree with this. He could fight for position all terains, despite his slim build,he was a Monster.

Cycling sometimes is a bit of being in the right place, at the right time. Quintana was always more talented than Bernal, always did better perfomances than him, but never won the Tour. Bernal won one Tour.

I don't think Quintana was/is more talented than Bernal. Brailsford called Bernal "the Messi of cycling". But then Pogacar and Vingegaard arrived and a new benchmark was established.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

If you need to time your peak so specifically you get dropped for 2 weeks and are completely at the mercy of your rivals aggression level, then you're not indisputably the best climber.

Like his one best performance in that Tour was putting like a minute into Kruijswijk who was letting his own domestique set the pace. Day after he got dropped again on Val Thorens by the way.

He was lucky Froome had his crash. He was lucky Thomas bottled his peak as hard as he did. He was lucky Jumbo prioritized Groenewegen over Roglic that year. And he was lucky with the Pinot freak injury. And he still won by barely 1'30 over Steven Kruijswijk.

There were like 5 reasons to question he would win the Tour 5 times, and the only reason to think he would do it was that he was super young.

Dropped for 2 weeks, at the mercy of your rivals aggression level?
He lost 9" to Thomas on la Planche des Belles Filles.
After the ITT he was 2'52" behind Alaphilippe. 1'26" behind Thomas, first of the real GC guys.
He was 5th, losing all of 8" to Pinot on the Tourmalet
He was 4th of GC guys, 5th of the stage to Foix, 18" behind Pinot and Landa
He gained 32" to Valloire. On everybody in GC. Up to second, 1'30" behind Alaphilippe
Then destroyed everybody on the Col de l'Iseran, looking to put more time in on the final climb.

Yours is a very weird reading of what happened in the first 2 weeks.. .completely at the mercy of his rivals... After stage 15 he was the third best climber in the race, having lost 33" to Pinot and 12" to Landa in the mountains.
AS for Krujiswijk, well, has it occured to anybody that Kruijswijk was a pretty good rider that could very well have won the Giro 16 if not crashing?

In hindsight, yes, unlikely that Bernal could have beaten Vingegaard and Pogacar. But a Bernal without his back problems, without his crash normally would easily end up on the podium in 20, 21, 22, 23, with a second place in 21 and 23 very possible too. But in the end he would regularly get destroyed in the TTs, while not bad, clearly not at the level of Vingegaard and Pogacar. But there's nothing to indicate that he would have been regularly dropped by those 2 in the mountains.

As for Quintana vs Bernal. Quintana was in the wrong time, had Froome against him, Bernal didn't. That doesn't make Quintana stronger than Bernal either though. 2 very strong young riders, that faded earlier than expected, although for very different reasons.

 

[Elos Anjos]

The comparisons between Bernal and Quintana, two colombian riders that even raced together in a couple of GTs illustrate what is pro cycling most impossible task, which is to draw fair comparisons about palmares (what was actually achieved and how and when) with potential palmares.

The later is what is used to compare riders but accidents (life) happens and it usually all goes down the drain. There's no easy answer, perhaps even noone to how one can compare two riders whose careers don't overlap, so I praise some of the above readings that safeguard its difficulties: assertions like "Quintana would have won a couple of TdF if not for Froome" are insightful and likewise "Bernal would have won more GTs if not for Pogi, Vingo and his accident".

They are much more nuanced than simply stating "bro Bernal would be utterly DESTROYED by Roglic".

 

[Froome]

I don't agree with this. He could fight for position all terains, despite his slim build,he was a Monster.

I don't think Quintana was/is more talented than Bernal. Brailsford called Bernal "the Messi of cycling". But then Pogacar and Vingegaard arrived and a new benchmark was established.

Prime quintana was more talented than Bernal in Grand Tours. The only difference is that Quintana had bad luck because his competition was froome. Bernal's competition was his teammate Thomas.

Quintana was a better climber, if we look at the perfomances of both.

 

[Extinction]

Prime quintana was more talented than Bernal in Grand Tours. The only difference is that Quintana had bad luck because his competition was froome. Bernal's competition was his teammate Thomas.

Quintana was a better climber, if we look at the perfomances of both.

But Bernal was 22 years-old when he won the Tour and was the new "Messi". He was a better TTer than Quintana and could fight for victory in Strade Bianche. I realize Quintana was very good, but Bernal was more complete. Bernal won the Tour and Giro, so it's arguable Quintana was the better Grand Tour rider, who won Giro and Vuelta. It's feasable that peak Bernal could go mano a mano against Vingo and Poggi, but alas back problems and the crash will likely never let us know.

 

[Froome]

But Bernal was 22 years-old when he won the Tour and was the new "Messi". He was a better TTer than Quintana and could fight for victory in Strade Bianche. I realize Quintana was very good, but Bernal was more complete. Bernal won the Tour and Giro, so it's arguable Quintana was the Better Grand Tour rider.

He was the "new messi" for his boss 😅

Quintana also appeared with 22/23 years in the Tour 2013, the difference is that he faced Froome. Bernal faced his teammate Thomas.

Quintana was always more dominant in the mountains if we compare to the dominance of Bernal.

Prime quintana in a good day was almost unbeatable in the mountains.

 

[Extinction]

He was the "new messi" for his boss 😅

Quintana also appeared with 22/23 years in the Tour 2013, the difference is that he faced Froome. Bernal faced his teammate Thomas.

Quintana was always more dominant in the mountains if we compare to the dominance of Bernal.

Prime quintana in a good day was almost unbeatable in the mountains.

Well, Froome has since showed his true colors, whereas Thomas has shown his resistance, thus I don't think your comparison holds weight. Prime Quintana, if anything, showed a reckless disregard of etiquite on that neutralized descent of the Giro to win the Maglia Rosa. At any rate, Bernal uphill, were it not for his misfortunes, would likely have had the oppurtunity to write new climbing feats. And notice I wrote "new Messi" in quotation marks.

 

[Cookster15]

He was the "new messi" for his boss 😅

Quintana also appeared with 22/23 years in the Tour 2013, the difference is that he faced Froome. Bernal faced his teammate Thomas.

Quintana was always more dominant in the mountains if we compare to the dominance of Bernal.

Prime quintana in a good day was almost unbeatable in the mountains.

Bernal wasn’t around long enough for you to form this opinion. Yet despite his career cut short with the crash and back problems he still managed to win two grand tours including the big one. Credit where due.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I vividly remember the old Evenepoel vs Bernal vs Pogacar thread where Pogacar was getting the short end of the stick around 2020 Dauphine time

At the time of Dauphiné 2020, Pogacar had won this long list of impressive GC's: Algarve, California and Valencia. The end.
He also finished 3rd in the Vuelta behind grandpa Valverde, who was neither in his prime, nor a GT powerhouse to begin with.

At that same time, Bernal - being only a year and a half older, had won: Tour de France, Tour de Suisse, Paris Nice, California, Occitanie.
Btw, Bernal won the Tour when he was 22 and a half years old. Pogacar won his Tour the day before turning 22.

Even Evenepoel at that time, and being a year and a half younger, had won: Belgium Tour, Algarve, Burgos, Pologne and San Juan.

So Pogacar getting the short end of the stick at that time, would simply mean people applying common sense. But hindsight 20/20 rules obviously. That said, i just scrolled through that topic, and i can't really see any ridiculous claims either way in the first few pages.

 

[Lequack]

Today Tadej Pogačar passed the UCI WCC team and he said even 'Ciao'

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749486661140873688

View: https://twitter.com/lucasaganronald/status/1749486661140873688?s=20

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Today Tadej Pogačar passed the UCI WCC team and he said even 'Ciao'

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749486661140873688

View: https://twitter.com/lucasaganronald/status/1749486661140873688?s=20

Psychological warfare has just started: Skeletor is shaking in his boots knowing that the same will happen to him in July.

 

[Lequack]

Psychological warfare has just started: Skeletor is shaking in his boots knowing that the same will happen to him in July.

Time for Vinge to find some slow riders while training and smoke them.

 

[johnymax]

Time for Vinge to find some slow riders while training and smoke them.

Like Remco and Rogla for example.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Psychological warfare has just started: Skeletor is shaking in his boots knowing that the same will happen to him in July.

Robovingo is immune to the psychology warfare, it won't work, he has the advantage. Pogacar is desperately trying all mind games, but deep down he knows that when grisca neirmann activates the password, 'today you the world who is the strongest', Robovingo is unstoppable.

Pogacar took the biggest mental victory in 2023 Paris Nice, he decimated Vingegard, but it is not Jonas Vingegard that goes to le tour, it is RoboVingo

 

[sam6]

Robovingo is immune to the psychology warfare, it won't work, he has the advantage. Pogacar is desperately trying all mind games, but deep down he knows that when grisca neirmann activates the password, 'today you the world who is the strongest', Robovingo is unstoppable.

Pogacar took the biggest mental victory in 2023 Paris Nice, he decimated Vingegard, but it is not Jonas Vingegard that goes to le tour, it is RoboVingo

Indeed, you can't play mind games with a skeleton!!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Robovingo is immune to the psychology warfare, it won't work, he has the advantage. Pogacar is desperately trying all mind games, but deep down he knows that when grisca neirmann activates the password, 'today you the world who is the strongest', Robovingo is unstoppable.

Pogacar took the biggest mental victory in 2023 Paris Nice, he decimated Vingegard, but it is not Jonas Vingegard that goes to le tour, it is RoboVingo

Leaked photo from recent JV training camp.

 

[Froome]

Robovingo is immune to the psychology warfare, it won't work, he has the advantage. Pogacar is desperately trying all mind games, but deep down he knows that when grisca neirmann activates the password, 'today you the world who is the strongest', Robovingo is unstoppable.

Pogacar took the biggest mental victory in 2023 Paris Nice, he decimated Vingegard, but it is not Jonas Vingegard that goes to le tour, it is RoboVingo

@Samu Cuenca the best idea to vingegaard's thread title.

 

[scribers]

They trained him to smile. Must be a new marketing strategy to appeal to Red Bull

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749778912123437243

View: https://twitter.com/lucasaganronald/status/1749778912123437243


Boys will be boys.

 

[Mina.S]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749778912123437243

View: https://twitter.com/lucasaganronald/status/1749778912123437243


Boys will be boys

Urska goes to training camp for a week and this happens? 😅
I guess maybe this year he needs to upgrade the tufts to win the tour….

 

[Oldermanish]

I don't agree with this. He could fight for position all terains, despite his slim build,he was a Monster.

I don't think Quintana was/is more talented than Bernal. Brailsford called Bernal "the Messi of cycling". But then Pogacar and Vingegaard arrived and a new benchmark was established.

Bernal was a good tactician, descender and similar to Quintana in many ways which is explainable largely by the Columbians' route to Europe. A few agents controlled the talent and looked for the same qualities.
Quintana had the misfortune of racing against the Sky Machine. Bernal had the benefit of having Sky ride for him. That polarity makes direct comparisons a bit tough.
Also; Brailsford only released information for tactical reasons while riders were competitive that suited their agenda. What he said usually was as revealing as a Bill Belichick post game press conference.

But in Pogi's world he tends to own up to his ups and downs with few excuses. I don't know if it was a Columbian tendency or their respective teams' policy but neither Nairo or Egan seemed comfortable in the big stage press for the few interviews I had the chance to see.