Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[bNator]

Except that FTP is not guaranteed to be sustainable for a hour (if calculated from 20 minute effort). It's individual and it could be sustained i.e. for 40 minutes or for 60 minutes. In case of pros it's probably closer to an hour. Still 6.58 w/kg FTP is incredible, even if measured/calculated at a sea level.

Of course. This correlation is very loose IMO - that's why I emphasised it's "supposed". The quotient (FTP / 20-min-max-avg-p) varies from person to person and probably even varies for the same athlete based on their fitness level. It seems intuitive that better fitness means bigger quotient...

 

[proffate]

Pogi cracked for one reason only - Vingegaard. There is no Vingegaard, hence, he is easily the best climber in the race, hence, no cracking.

Probably.

and pog still beat everyone not named Jonas even with the jour sans

 

[proffate]

It’s max sustained power over 1 hour. However, since 1 hour is inconveniently long time window to measure FTP, there is a supposed correlation between max 20 minute power average and FTP with FTP being 0.95 times best-20-min-power-average. That’s why FTP is often measured inside 20 minute time window.

Every definition of FTP is arbitrary. There is nothing magical about the 60 minute time span. FTP is just a number used to help guide structured training. It has been proposed to derive this number from a 60 minute test, a 20 minute test with a very specific pre-test interval, blood lactate testing, a ramp test, or several other ways.

But to answer the surprisingly clueless @Froome , yes, one hour. His max 20 minute power would be something 5-10% higher than that.

 

[AmRacer]

Every definition of FTP is arbitrary. There is nothing magical about the 60 minute time span. FTP is just a number used to help guide structured training. It has been proposed to derive this number from a 60 minute test, a 20 minute test with a very specific pre-test interval, blood lactate testing, a ramp test, or several other ways.

But to answer the surprisingly clueless @Froome , yes, one hour. His max 20 minute power would be something 5-10% higher than that.

37 minutes and 22 seconds is optimal for Teddy's body type.

 

[Froome]

Every definition of FTP is arbitrary. There is nothing magical about the 60 minute time span. FTP is just a number used to help guide structured training. It has been proposed to derive this number from a 60 minute test, a 20 minute test with a very specific pre-test interval, blood lactate testing, a ramp test, or several other ways.

But to answer the surprisingly clueless @Froome , yes, one hour. His max 20 minute power would be something 5-10% higher than that.

At the end of a stage, some cyclists are unable to achieve their maximum FTP in a 20-minute effort/climb, unlike in training, where they can achieve their FTP when they are fresh.

Talking about Pogacar, he can't do 6.58 w/kg in races during an hour, not even close(nobody can), but he can much higher than that in a 20 min effort, in low altitude.

 

[proffate]

At the end of a stage, some cyclists are unable to achieve their maximum FTP in a 20-minute effort/climb, unlike in training, where they can achieve their FTP when they are fresh.

Talking about Pogacar, he can't do 6.58 w/kg in races during an hour, not even close(nobody can), but he can much higher than that in a 20 min effort, in low altitude.

all measures of FTP assume sea level

max 20 minute power is 5-10% over FTP.

Pog is not necessarily at peak fitness or race weight.

This insider scoop could be total hogwash.

Lots of "if"s here.

 

[bNator]

Every definition of FTP is arbitrary. There is nothing magical about the 60 minute time span. FTP is just a number used to help guide structured training. It has been proposed to derive this number from a 60 minute test, a 20 minute test with a very specific pre-test interval, blood lactate testing, a ramp test, or several other ways.

But to answer the surprisingly clueless @Froome , yes, one hour. His max 20 minute power would be something 5-10% higher than that.

...surprisingly

 

[Froome]

all measures of FTP assume sea level

max 20 minute power is 5-10% over FTP.

Pog is not necessarily at peak fitness or race weight.

This insider scoop could be total hogwash.

Lots of "if"s here.

I understand that, i never saw a rider doing 6.58 w/kg in race during an hour on a climb. Maybe him and other top riders can do that fresh in training, but in races i never saw something like that.

"Max 20 minutes power is "5-10%" over FTP", well looking on engineer frederic portoleau calculations, he did 6.7 w/kg during almost 20 min on col marie blanque last year, 6.6 w/kg during 24 minutes on peyresourde in 2020, maybe fresh in training he can even do better, it makes sense on this perspective.

 

[Froome]

Armstrong once said he had a FTP of 6.8 w/kg, if i'm right, but i don't know if is really true.

 

[Sciatic]

Armstrong once said he had a FTP of 6.8 w/kg, if i'm right, but i don't know if is really true.

Armstrong once said a lot of things . . .

 

[shadowrider]

haters are such a joy to watch. You forget how easily pog dropped vingegagrd in PN when he wasnt injured last year in fact Vingegaard has never beaten Pogacar when Pogacar didnt have a legitimate reason not to win(vingegaard in same position and circumstances wuldnt even be top 3 so stop the narrative choosing) Pogacar is the far best rider anyone thinking anything else ill put in the same section as the earth is flat category its at this point just that stupid...not a single GT or race have vingegaard outmatched pog when pog was fresh pog crushed him everytime vingegaard only won when pog wasnt able to train or beat himself vs rog and vinge, thats facts wether you like it or not.

I usually come in here to say a few things now and then and my latest reports are from Pog camp that hes stronger than last year prepare for something unique this season. The guy say pog somewhat in every test has become stronger so its really only a injury who can stop him again ofc when he rides the giro wins a 2-3 monuments again and maby loose the TDF cause riding the giro the same trolls as this ppantheer92 will still not able to see it for what it is (Always some ppl who ppl the earth is flat too...same ppl properly)

Have a nice week you all and i do believe Pog will win strade too with ease. Oh and also Van aert unfortunately this year too will only come second fiddle to MVDP hate or love it dont cry to the messenger. Bye.

Vingegaard was maybe not at his best in P-N. Also Pogacar wasn't during the Tour. But even if I think Pogacar has more talent than Vingegaard, I'm the more convinced Vingegaard is the better of the two in a hard three weeks race. We'll see in july. Although I fear that the Pogacar fans already have their excuses ready. After participating to the Giro, Poga won't be at his best in the Tour. But that's his choice and no excuse at all.

 

[proffate]

I understand that, i never saw a rider doing 6.58 w/kg in race during an hour on a climb. Maybe him and other top riders can do that fresh in training, but in races i never saw something like that.

"Max 20 minutes power is "5-10%" over FTP", well looking on engineer frederic portoleau calculations, he did 6.7 w/kg during almost 20 min on col marie blanque last year, 6.6 w/kg during 24 minutes on peyresourde in 2020, maybe fresh in training he can even do better, it makes sense on this perspective.

Aside from the effect of fatigue accumulated over the previous hours or weeks, most hour long climbs also finish at an altitude that really starts to bite into one's aerobic capacity, e.g. Mt Ventoux at 1910m, which should take off a few percent even for an acclimated rider. Both the climbs you quoted are high enough to have a measurable impact.

But the point being made by the leaker is that Pog is really strong already, so it's not a surprise if this number (taken at face value) is higher than you expected.

 

[bNator]

Don’t forget that FTP would be measured when doing an evenly distributed effort for the duration of the measurement (whatever time window we are talking about). In racing conditions, that is rarely the case. There are tactics, accelerations, going into red, etc. In racing conditions, FTP value in my opinion can almost never be reached…

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Don’t forget that FTP would be measured when doing an evenly distributed effort for the duration of the measurement (whatever time window we are talking about). In racing conditions, that is rarely the case. There are tactics, accelerations, going into red, etc. In racing conditions, FTP value in my opinion can almost never be reached…

Absolutely. Cyclists almost never do a 1-hour steady max effort on the road and those long climbs aren't done a bloc from the bottom to the top, unless they are part of a TT (i.e. Mayo's incredible MtVentoux effort), which is rarely the case. Plus, additional wattage are added due to near sea level elevation (which most labs are at) compared to higher elevations of cols.

I understand that, i never saw a rider doing 6.58 w/kg in race during an hour on a climb. Maybe him and other top riders can do that fresh in training, but in races i never saw something like that.

"Max 20 minutes power is "5-10%" over FTP", well looking on engineer frederic portoleau calculations, he did 6.7 w/kg during almost 20 min on col marie blanque last year, 6.6 w/kg during 24 minutes on peyresourde in 2020, maybe fresh in training he can even do better, it makes sense on this perspective.

Mayo's MtVentoux TT was the strongest near 1-hour climbing effort in this century. Understandably it was done during the TT when the whole climb was done optimally (instead of uneven, growing tempo by the peleton). Plus elevation effect can't be neglected. Cyclists have great engines capable of processing huge amount of oxygen - so they can profit even more from the sea level elevation (lab tests) vs mountain cols than an average Joe.

 

[Sybrand]

Absolutely. Cyclists almost never do a 1-hour steady max effort on the road and those long climbs aren't done a bloc from the bottom to the top, unless they are part of a TT (i.e. Mayo's incredible MtVentoux effort), which is rarely the case. Plus, additional wattage are added due to near sea level elevation (which most labs are at) compared to higher elevations of cols.



Mayo's MtVentoux TT was the strongest near 1-hour climbing effort in this century. Understandably it was done during the TT when the whole climb was done optimally (instead of uneven, growing tempo by the peleton). Plus elevation effect can't be neglected. Cyclists have great engines capable of processing huge amount of oxygen - so they can profit even more from the sea level elevation (lab tests) vs mountain cols than an average Joe.

It would be really nice to have such a mountain TT in the coming years in a race like the Dauphiné. Than we would have more of a clue where todays peloton stands in regards to that era, and the differences between today's top riders.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It would be really nice to have such a mountain TT in the coming years in a race like the Dauphiné. Than we would have more of a clue where todays peloton stands in regards to that era, and the differences between today's top riders.

Yup, imagine the last Tour's TT was done on Alpe d'Huez. Skeletor could've beaten 38' barrier, methinks.

 

[Netserk]

It would be really nice to have such a mountain TT in the coming years in a race like the Dauphiné. Than we would have more of a clue where todays peloton stands in regards to that era, and the differences between today's top riders.

I dream of the Ventoux one-day race to be held as an ITT. Start from Bédoin, like they used to do in Dauphiné.

With the same format as Chrono des Nations, you can have both men & women and all age groups on the same day. Could possibly even turn a dime by allowing amateurs in the morning.

 

[Extinction]

I dream of the Ventoux one-day race to be held as an ITT. Start from Bédoin, like they used to do in Dauphiné.

With the same format as Chrono des Nations, you can have both men & women and all age groups on the same day. Could possibly even turn a dime by allowing amateurs in the morning.

The Bédoin side is 22 klm of pure inferno, as I recall into the luner landscape.

 

[cogwheel]

Where Tadej is opening the season? Strade Bianche?

 

[Extinction]

Where Tadej is opening the season? Strade Bianche?

Yes

 

[mou]

On Saturday I'm not really thinking about my own result, no,” says Wellens. “The most important thing is that the victory remains within the team. The intention is to start the final with as many pawns as possible around Tadej. Pogacar remains our best chance of winning. Suppose I get to the front with a promising group, then I will certainly not participate as long as Pogacar is not connected. Tadej can come after me at any time.”

 

[mou]

On Saturday I'm not really thinking about my own result, no,” says Wellens. “The most important thing is that the victory remains within the team. The intention is to start the final with as many pawns as possible around Tadej. Pogacar remains our best chance of winning. Suppose I get to the front with a promising group, then I will certainly not participate as long as Pogacar is not connected. Tadej can come after me at any time.”

While I was suffering during my block training, he quickly followed me in the wheel. Joking and guffawing and making videos. In short, Tadej is on another level. I have no qualms about sacrificing myself for such a rider. Not even for a teammate, by the way. The general level within UAE Emirates is extremely high. Completing training with teammates is really impressive. The average speeds we then achieve…”

I showed you the current data from pogacar's training the other day, be prepared for more material in the future, so these Welens' words will not be a surprise to you

 

[CyclistAbi]

Lets hope for a successful season opener.

 

[mou]

I gave you the current pogacar's FTP-431W, current weight 65.5 kg, calculate w/kg yourself 😉, I gave you what "Inigo san Millan famous "zone 2" means, which is 5.0-5.5 w/kg, now I'm giving you info that Pogačar trains 3 times a week on a much improved Colnago T1 bike and I can tell you that he improved on the UAE test track in Valencia at 30 km compared to last year by 45 seconds (Remco, fisherman watch out), in short Pogačar 2024 is fear and trembling for everyone, it is still questionable how he will solve the problem with the heat on the Tour, that is still being worked on, the new coach Sola and the best expert in that field (his name is kept secret) will be at the altitude training after the Giro and will try to implement new techniques in training for the Tour, stay well everyone, pozz

 

[joseph89]

Everyone going to strade thinking they have a chance is absolute giggles. Is pog not doing Tirreno?