Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Froome]

I wouldn't necessarily take Vingegaard's improvements in prep races as a sign that he will definitely be better in the Tour, because he peaked only for the Tour in the past. I'm not saying it's impossible, but we will need to wait and see. For all we know, his broader focus and better performance early season could even cost him a few percentages in july. Again, not saying this is the case, but it is a possibility.

It may even happen that the preparation is messed up and he get's worse in the Tour, or maybe he get's even better this year, let's see in the future.

I was just comparing the level of Vingegaard (and Pogacar) from March last year, to March from this year, and he is clearly better this year. In July, let's see how it will be.

Pogacar in my opinion is at the same level from previous years.

The fact that he's seemingly been able to drop weight without losing power or explosiveness should still be a worry for his competitors. Also due to the weather and him not having to ride himself into the red at all to win the race, the numbers don't tell the full story of how dominant his racing last week was.

I don't know if that is true, but that situation can apply to the other riders.

If we look at Kuss, he is more far from his peak shape than Pogacar, because his main goals are between July and September. Pogacar's big goals start more soon.

 

[repre]

The real battle will be between Roglic and Pogi for 2nd. This is pole position for TDF win in case of clinic stuff with Vingo...

 

[Froome]

It's enough if smth happens with Vingo. If not, Vingo is a clear favourite with no real competition. Pogi understood this and chose to ride Giro instead to score a GT win this year. If he thought he could win against Visma, he would ride only TDF...

There's a reason on why Emirates will go with everything they have: Pogacar, Ayuso, Yates, Almeida and also top domestiques like sivakov.

 

[AmRacer]

I wouldn't have used the word seemingly if it was an undeniable fact.

Yes, no, no, yes

But it's a fact that he seemingly has so?

No, no, yes, yes

 

[AmRacer]

The real battle will be between Roglic and Pogi for 2nd. This is pole position for TDF win in case of clinic stuff with Vingo...

Rogla and Remco battle for 3rd.

 

[AmRacer]

It's enough if smth happens with Vingo. If not, Vingo is a clear favourite with no real competition. Pogi understood this and chose to ride Giro instead to score a GT win this year. If he thought he could win against Visma, he would ride only TDF...

This is a good year to do the Giro. He couldn't the past three years

 

[bNator]

It's enough if smth happens with Vingo. If not, Vingo is a clear favourite with no real competition. Pogi understood this and chose to ride Giro instead to score a GT win this year. If he thought he could win against Visma, he would ride only TDF...

What do you think he would do if he thought he could win the Giro and then beat Vingo at TDF? Ride both.

What do you think he would do if he thought him riding the Giro would help him prepare for TDF better? Ride both.

The fact he's riding both tells us nothing about what he thinks... That being said and knowing Pogs ambitions (best rider ever), I would personally lean towards either of the above mentioned rather than him hedging his chances because of insecurity. But I don't pretend to know what he thinks, just to be clear.

 

[SHAD0W93]

What do you think he would do if he thought he could win the Giro and then beat Vingo at TDF? Ride both.

What do you think he would do if he thought him riding the Giro would help him prepare for TDF better? Ride both.

The fact he's riding both tells us nothing about what he thinks... That being said and knowing Pogs ambitions (best rider ever), I would personally lean towards either of the above mentioned rather than him hedging his chances because of insecurity. But I don't pretend to know what he thinks, just to be clear.

Especially with how easy the route is for a double attempt. This isn’t like it’s the 2011 Giro.

 

[bNator]

Especially with how easy the route is for a double attempt. This isn’t like it’s the 2011 Giro.

I think that was the goal of Giro organisers this year. To encourage double attempts by Pog, Vinge or both…

 

[repre]

Rogla and Remco battle for 3rd.

Let's see if Remco can finish the GT in GC position first... If he can, then he can battle even for 2nd, potential is there.

 

[repre]

There's a reason on why Emirates will go with everything they have: Pogacar, Ayuso, Yates, Almeida and also top domestiques like sivakov.

Yes, they need plan A, B, C and even D for this race, cause besides Almeida there is no sure thing on this team (Pogi in second GT in a row is not sure thing for me yet, depends how much energy he will expend at Giro).

 

[repre]

What do you think he would do if he thought he could win the Giro and then beat Vingo at TDF? Ride both.

What do you think he would do if he thought him riding the Giro would help him prepare for TDF better? Ride both.

The fact he's riding both tells us nothing about what he thinks... That being said and knowing Pogs ambitions (best rider ever), I would personally lean towards either of the above mentioned rather than him hedging his chances because of insecurity. But I don't pretend to know what he thinks, just to be clear.

No way Giro is a preparation for TDF, even with easy route this year it's still a GT and he wіll need recovery period after this, when Vingo will be at Teide. Even Vingo wasn't at his max level at Vuelta last year...

He can aim to win both Giro and TDF, he is a competitive monster after all and i doubt he thinks he can't do it. But he probably doesn't expect to win TDF from himself after last two years and that's why he also rides Giro.

I don't say you are not right, but i doubt it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

"Niso vse samo številke, temveč tudi, da se sam dobro počutiš"

Štiri desetletja že ni bilo takšne elitne enotedenske kolesarske dirke. Štiri etape, skupna zmaga in prednost večja od treh minut in pol. Tadej Pogačar verjame, da je naredil korak naprej in še bolj uživa na kolesu kot prej.

www.rtvslo.si

Considering Pogi has done something that wasn't done in decades, from the man himself:

Numbers are not everything it's important you feel good too.

Another interesting remark in the interview, he is happy that the team is holding him back, to prevent him from blowing up. So i guess they are taking this aspect into consideration, regardless on how it looks on TV. So i assume that at the Tour 2024 he will let Jonas take more initiative, compared to endless attacks while trying to crack him. And obvisuly the dynamics should be different in the first place, due to more favourites involved. We'll see.

 

[kn0s]

"Niso vse samo številke, temveč tudi, da se sam dobro počutiš"

Štiri desetletja že ni bilo takšne elitne enotedenske kolesarske dirke. Štiri etape, skupna zmaga in prednost večja od treh minut in pol. Tadej Pogačar verjame, da je naredil korak naprej in še bolj uživa na kolesu kot prej.

www.rtvslo.si

Considering Pogi has done something that wasn't done in decades, from the man himself:



Another interesting remark in the interview, he is happy that the team is holding him back, to prevent him from blowing up. So i guess they are taking this aspect into consideration, regardless on how it looks on TV. So i assume that at the Tour 2024 he will let Jonas take more initiative, compared to endless attacks while trying to crack him. And obvisuly the dynamics should be different in the first place, due to more favourites involved. We'll see.

The race was designed to make big time gaps. Can't remember anything quit like it recently. Dropping any one of the big boys in here was bound to make history.

 

[Froome]

"Niso vse samo številke, temveč tudi, da se sam dobro počutiš"

Štiri desetletja že ni bilo takšne elitne enotedenske kolesarske dirke. Štiri etape, skupna zmaga in prednost večja od treh minut in pol. Tadej Pogačar verjame, da je naredil korak naprej in še bolj uživa na kolesu kot prej.

www.rtvslo.si

Considering Pogi has done something that wasn't done in decades, from the man himself:



Another interesting remark in the interview, he is happy that the team is holding him back, to prevent him from blowing up. So i guess they are taking this aspect into consideration, regardless on how it looks on TV. So i assume that at the Tour 2024 he will let Jonas take more initiative, compared to endless attacks while trying to crack him. And obvisuly the dynamics should be different in the first place, due to more favourites involved. We'll see.

He will do altitude training camp before the Giro?

So, it wasn't true he was just going to altitude before the Tour.

 

[AmRacer]

He will do altitude training camp before the Giro?

So, it wasn't true he was just going to altitude before the Tour.

How much altitude can he manage between the Giro and Tour? He needs sofa time too.

 

[bNator]

No way Giro is a preparation for TDF, even with easy route this year it's still a GT and he wіll need recovery period after this, when Vingo will be at Teide. Even Vingo wasn't at his max level at Vuelta last year...

He can aim to win both Giro and TDF, he is a competitive monster after all and i doubt he thinks he can't do it. But he probably doesn't expect to win TDF from himself after last two years and that's why he also rides Giro.

I don't say you are not right, but i doubt it.

2020 Carapaz, 2023 Kuss, 2018 Froome&Dumo, 2020 Roglic... These are all examples of a very good second GT after riding two consecutive ones. Not neccesarily doubles... Now if Carapaz can stage hunt TDF and show up in spectacular form 3 weeks later to almost win la Vuelta, if Froome and Dumo can podium TDF after doing a really hard Giro, I'm sure Pog can manage that as well. He's better than all of them and if he measures his efforts on this uncharacteristically easy Giro route, he can use it as a preparation. If he does his usual Pog stuff (solos, sprints, attacks left and right) then I agree - he stands very little chance in TDF.

BTW if I had to bet my money, I would bet on him being a clown during the Giro and losing TDF, sadly… So far, he hasn't convinced me he can help himself.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It may even happen that the preparation is messed up and he get's worse in the Tour, or maybe he get's even better this year, let's see in the future.

I was just comparing the level of Vingegaard (and Pogacar) from March last year, to March from this year, and he is clearly better this year. In July, let's see how it will be.

Pogacar in my opinion is at the same level from previous years.

To be clear, and i edited my post, i meant better/worse in the Tour compared to last year in the Tour, not compared to this year in Tirreno. I hope that was clear.
As for Pogacar's level, like i said, according to Naichachacha he is better. Whether that is because he is doing a different prep towards the Giro, i don't know.

 

[proffate]

How much altitude can he manage between the Giro and Tour? He needs sofa time too.

what do they sit on at altitude?

 

[Froome]

To be clear, and i edited my post, i meant better/worse in the Tour compared to last year in the Tour, not compared to this year in Tirreno. I hope that was clear.
As for Pogacar's level, like i said, according to Naichachacha he is better. Whether that is because he is doing a different prep towards the Giro, i don't know.

Naichacha is just a young guy who loves some sensationalism, he is not reliable, always overestimates the perfomances of everybody.

The article i posted is from Frederic Portoleau, an engineer with formation in physics who does calculations since 20 years ago about professional riders. Chronoswatts.

Yes, i understood what you said, i was just saying he is at the moment better, than he was last year in March.

 

[repre]

2020 Carapaz, 2023 Kuss, 2018 Froome&Dumo, 2020 Roglic... These are all examples of a very good second GT after riding two consecutive ones. Not neccesarily doubles... Now if Carapaz can stage hunt TDF and show up in spectacular form 3 weeks later to almost win la Vuelta, if Froome and Dumo can podium TDF after doing a really hard Giro, I'm sure Pog can manage that as well. He's better than all of them and if he measures his efforts on this uncharacteristically easy Giro route, he can use it as a preparation. If he does his usual Pog stuff (solos, sprints, attacks left and right) then I agree - he stands very little chance in TDF.

BTW if I had to bet my money, I would bet on him being a clown during the Giro and losing TDF, sadly… So far, he hasn't convinced me he can help himself.

TDF and Vuelta double is not the same as Giro-TDF as nobody from top riders are aiming and peaking for Vuelta, so requirements there is not the same as for standart Giro or TDF. Correct way for comparison is only doing Giro-TDF double, cause Pogi will do this and not TDF-Vuelta.

So from your list only Kuss and Dumo qualify. Kuss was 14th and 12th as a dom (not the same as GC threat), and Dumo was 2nd at both Giro and TDF. Which is great for Dumo and probably greatest attempt for the double in recent seasons, but won't qualify as success for Pogi.

You are not really gonna find the guy who has won Giro and TDF the same year in modern cycling. And there is a reason for this.

As i recall, nobody won Giro and TDF the same year after Pantani in 1998, so nobody at all in modern era. Which is why i said that Pogi aiming for Giro win is almost a white flag for TDF battle against Vingo. He can try, this is not bad at all, he already did things that were unimaginable in his career.

But chances to win both GTs are minimal even for him.

 

[Red Rick]

Gauging level by W/kg estimates from completely different climbs makes no sense. It makes more sense if you have similar climbs, it's preferable to have the exact same climb, and even then the gap to the competition is a better metric still.

In that regard, Pogacar is at a similar level as in 2022 and 2023 IMO. Crushing Tirreno/PN/Catalunya, very strong, but couldn't make the difference in Sanremo each year. Taking big time on the climbs that suit him, at quite similar rates IMO. Compare San Isidre to Col d'Eze. Maybe 2022 was a bit weaker with the smaller gap in Strade and the difficulty he had beating Yates in UAE, but that's about it. I wouldn't lose my mind over Strade cause a rainy 220km Strade is the #1 perfect race for Pog and he probably wins that hungover.

I'm inclined to say the same of Vingegaard, who is probably around the same level as last year. The fluctuations in their winning gaps are very heavily down to the parcourses they race in the stage races.

 

[Red Rick]

TDF and Vuelta double is not the same as Giro-TDF as nobody from top riders are aiming and peaking for Vuelta, so requirements there is not the same as for standart Giro or TDF. Correct way for comparison is only doing Giro-TDF double, cause Pogi will do this and not TDF-Vuelta.

So from your list only Kuss and Dumo qualify. Kuss was 14th and 12th as a dom (not the same as GC threat), and Dumo was 2nd at both Giro and TDF. Which is great for Dumo and probably greatest attempt for the double in recent seasons, but won't qualify as success for Pogi.

You are not really gonna find the guy who has won Giro and TDF the same year in modern cycling. And there is a reason for this.

As i recall, nobody won Giro and TDF the same year after Pantani in 1998, so nobody at all in modern era. Which is why i said that Pogi aiming for Giro win is almost a white flag for TDF battle against Vingo. He can try, this is not bad at all, he already did things that were unimaginable in his career.

But chances to win both GTs are minimal even for him.

I maintain that the #1 reason that we haven't seen the Giro-Tour double is that only one rider has actually tried it while at the peak of his dominance, and that was Contador doing the sickest Giro route in 2011 and then he proceeded to crash hard in the Tour and lose 1'30 doing so before blowing himself up trying to get that all back.

Contador had a window to do it. Froome had a window to do it. Pogacar had a window to do it before. I believe it's entirely possible. Both Vingegaard and Pogacar can do it IMO

 

[CyclistAbi]

He will do altitude training camp before the Giro?

Yes, Sierra Nevada for three weeks, then Belgium, a bit of rest and then preparation for LBL, after preparation for Giro. This year he hasn't done altitude training yet.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I believe it's entirely possible. Both Vingegaard and Pogacar can do it IMO

It's possible but not likely to happen anytime soon. Said that i take it seriously if Rogla, Pogi or Jonas decide to do it. Seriously in the sense that i look forward to it to potentially happen and seeing history in the making. Although knowing the chances are low.