Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Froome]

All this talk about Merckx... 99% of this forum didn't see him race... how can they tell Merckx would smoke MVP? Or lose to Pogacar? We don't know. But one thing I'm sure, Merckx would not win half of his wins if he was racing today. They are all professional cyclists nowadays.

How do you know that? How do you know Merckx would not even be more stronger with the access at all things the riders have today?

And no, Merckx wasn't beating farmers, unless you want to disrespect the legacy of super riders like ours Joaquim Agostinho.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I wouldn‘t be surprised if Merckx would hand Poulidor‘s grandson some second places.

He would give MVP some wins. He was too harsh to his grandpa.

 

[Peyroteo94]

How do you know that? How do you know Merckx would not even be more stronger with the access at all things the riders have today?

And no, Merckx wasn't beating farmers, unless you want to disrespect the legacy of super riders like ours Joaquim Agostinho.

Every sport demonstrate that. In the beginning of every sport, we had massive differences between riders/teams/clubs and the tendency is to this gap reduce with time.
We no longer see a player so dominant as Hendry or Steve Davis in snooker (or Joe Davis in the beginning of the sport)
We no longer see Real Madrid or big national teams win 10-0 regularly.
We no longer see a franchise like Celtics win and obliterate the NBA.
We no longer see a rider like Merckx in cycling that win every important race.
I have nothing against Merckx however we have a different sport now, a lot more competitive and balanced sport with way more professional riders.
For me Pogacar is the GOAT of "new cycling" (specialization era).

 

[Berniece]

For me Pogacar is the GOAT of "new cycling" (specialization era).

Sure, you can have that opinion. I’m not calling people GOAT’s when they are 25 and don’t have the palmares of people before them.

 

[yaf]

I wouldn‘t be surprised if Merckx would hand Poulidor‘s grandson some second places.

Some retro dudes still think their cannibal would beat jasper philipson in san remo sprint. Lmao
7 san remo🤣

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

I think Novak will be very good. Bjerg as well.

Grosschartner + Majka left for the final.

Oliveira and Laengen to pull on the flats.

Molano? No idea really.

Yeah exactly. I don't understand the comments regarding a weak team. Novak has been great all season and Bjerg has shown quite useful on all terrain in a GT. Grossschartner and Majka might not be Yates but all he needs is guys that can do a solid 2-5 minute effort above threshhold to launch his attacks and they will do.

Who even is here to attack from far out where you would (theoretically) need a strong team to cover? Thomas and Ineos are the most defensive negative racing combination there is, Uijtdebroekshas yet to put a single attack in WT level. Bardet has the grinta but thats one single guy to look out for, he'll be fine.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Sure, you can have that opinion. I’m not calling people GOAT’s when they are 25 and don’t have the palmares of people before them.

He clearly said about "new cycling", not 70s or 50s. While Pogacar is way behind old champions achievement-wise, he's already one of the best in last 30 years or so and probably on his way to be the most accomplished in this period.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Sure, you can have that opinion. I’m not calling people GOAT’s when they are 25 and don’t have the palmares of people before them.

You're right. IMHO he will be the Goat of new cycling.

 

[Berniece]

He clearly said about "new cycling", not 70s or 50s. While Pogacar is way behind old champions achievement-wise, he's already one of the best in last 30 years or so and probably on his way to be the most accomplished in this period.

He has 2 GT wins… Froome has 7. He has the same amount of monument wins as MVDP, and less than Boonen and Cancellara.

So no, he’s not the GOAT, yet. Not to mention he was destroyed the last 2 years in the biggest race.

 

[Offline]

He has 2 GT wins… Froome has 7. He has the same amount of monument wins as MVDP, and less than Boonen and Cancellara.

So no, he’s not the GOAT, yet. Not to mention he was destroyed the last 2 years in the biggest race.

*25 years old

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He has 2 GT wins… Froome has 7. He has the same amount of monument wins as MVDP, and less than Boonen and Cancellara.

So no, he’s not the GOAT, yet. Not to mention he was destroyed the last 2 years in the biggest race.

Not yet. He has 6 monuments and two TdF so he's probably ahead of Boonen and Cancellara but behind Froomey and a few other guys (Indurain probably has most impressive palmares in the new era of high level cycling, if we ignore Armstrong's TdF and WC wins).

 

[snipeheem]

He has 2 GT wins… Froome has 7. He has the same amount of monument wins as MVDP, and less than Boonen and Cancellara.

So no, he’s not the GOAT, yet. Not to mention he was destroyed the last 2 years in the biggest race.

How many monuments for froome? How many GT for boonen and cancellara?

 

[YavorD]

Every sport demonstrate that. In the beginning of every sport, we had massive differences between riders/teams/clubs and the tendency is to this gap reduce with time.
We no longer see a player so dominant as Hendry or Steve Davis in snooker (or Joe Davis in the beginning of the sport)
We no longer see Real Madrid or big national teams win 10-0 regularly.
We no longer see a franchise like Celtics win and obliterate the NBA.
We no longer see a rider like Merckx in cycling that win every important race.
I have nothing against Merckx however we have a different sport now, a lot more competitive and balanced sport with way more professional riders.
For me Pogacar is the GOAT of "new cycling" (specialization era).

Yet we see the likes of Hamilton and Verstappen obliterating F1
And we see Man City on it's way to win 4 PL titles in a row (not sure if it's been done ever..)
And we see Juventus and Bayern winning 11 or something in a row.
Not to mention that we see the like of Shifrin and JTB and Hirscher and so on in the winter sports.
And we see the big 3 in Tennis dominating ATP for nearly 2 decades, destroying most of the records.
And yes, O'Sullivan is more successful the Hendry and Davis only that over longer period.


To put it like that, nowadays we have as many people/teams dominating sports, as we've had before. It's far from certain that Merckx wouldn't win as much or even more nowadays.

 

[Netserk]

You're right. IMHO he will be the Goat of new cycling.

GOAT = Greatest of all time.

It does not make sense to declare a GOAT of a generation, it's a contradiction in terms.

I think it's quite defensible to declare him (expected to be) "Greatest of recent/modern/contemporary time".

Yet we see the likes of Hamilton and Verstappen obliterating F1
And we see Man City on it's way to win 4 PL titles in a row (not sure if it's been done ever..)
And we see Juventus and Bayern winning 11 or something in a row.
Not to mention that we see the like of Shifrin and JTB and Hirscher and so on in the winter sports.
And we see the big 3 in Tennis dominating ATP for nearly 2 decades, destroying most of the records.
And yes, O'Sullivan is more successful the Hendry and Davis only that over longer period.


To put it like that, nowadays we have as many people/teams dominating sports, as we've had before. It's far from certain that Merckx wouldn't win as much or even more nowadays.

And the fact that there were no dominators to the same extend before Merckx. A relatively recent rider like Hinault was more consistently dominant than Coppi, and certainly far more dominant than any rider before Bartali.

 

[Berflamand]

GOAT = Greatest of all time.

It does not make sense to declare a GOAT of a generation, it's a contradiction in terms.

I think it's quite defensible to declare him (expected to be) "Greatest of recent/modern/contemporary time".

So GORT, GOMT or GOCT.

Hmm, for some reason I don't think this will catch on.

 

[snipeheem]

GOAT = Greatest of all time.

It does not make sense to declare a GOAT of a generation, it's a contradiction in terms.

I think it's quite defensible to declare him (expected to be) "Greatest of recent/modern/contemporary time".

I think he has to beat jonas one more time in tdf and after that he is the greatest since eddy

 

[Berniece]

Not yet. He has 6 monuments and two TdF so he's probably ahead of Boonen and Cancellara but behind Froomey and a few other guys (Indurain probably has most impressive palmares in the new era of high level cycling, if we ignore Armstrong's TdF and WC wins).

He is still behind them. If he crashes and can’t race anymore he’ll never surpass them. My point being you can’t be the GOAT when you don’t have the palmares yet, age doesn’t matter.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I‘m once again asking you to recognize the BOAT title.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He is still behind them. If he crashes and can’t race anymore he’ll never surpass them. My point being you can’t be the GOAT when you don’t have the palmares yet, age doesn’t matter.

I agree with you partly. Palmares is obviously very important but the way of racing and winning is important too. Valverde's wins can't be compared to Pogacar’s wins. One gives a show for the fans with long range attacks, the other wins uphill sprints.

 

[Blanco]

However, despite his achievements, De Vlaeminck does not spare some rough words: "Pogacar is a top rider and by far the best in the world, with Mathieu van der Poel a close second. Unfortunately, Mathieu can't keep up in the mountains. That would have been an exciting duel. But Pogacar isn't even half the rider Merckx was."

"If Merckx were to race in the same Giro as Pogacar, Pogačar would be five minutes behind in the general classification

No rough words there. The man is right.

 

[Berniece]

I agree with you partly. Palmares is obviously very important but the way of racing and winning is important too. Valverde's wins can't be compared to Pogacar’s wins. One gives a show for the fans with long range attacks, the other wins uphill sprints.

Yes, but when you look at Movistar it’s like riding in the past.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

'You have to get the notion that he’s unbeatable out of your head' - Nibali calls on Tadej Pogačar's Giro rivals to be inventive

The two-time champion stresses that the Giro is a marathon, not a sprint

www.cyclingnews.com

does this constitute voodoo?

“You have to be perfect for 21 days, 20 isn’t enough,” Nibali said. “Now, I don't wish any misfortune on Tadej, of course not. But speaking in general, a single bad day, which can happen to anyone, can change a lot of things.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

GOAT = Greatest of all time.

It does not make sense to declare a GOAT of a generation, it's a contradiction in terms.

I think it's quite defensible to declare him (expected to be) "Greatest of recent/modern/contemporary time".

And the fact that there were no dominators to the same extend before Merckx. A relatively recent rider like Hinault was more consistently dominant than Coppi, and certainly far more dominant than any rider before Bartali.

Coppi's and Bartali's achievements took a major hit due to the WWII i.e. 7 TdF editions weren't held and many other races as well. Otherwise they would be comfortably ahead of all guys not named Merckx (and maybe Hinault) despite both riding in the same era. Coppi would likely be a double-digit GT and monuments winner (which only Merckx could achieved), possibly ending up with palmares comparable to Merckx.

 

[Sciatic]

GOAT = Greatest of all time.

It does not make sense to declare a GOAT of a generation, it's a contradiction in terms.

I think it's quite defensible to declare him (expected to be) "Greatest of recent/modern/contemporary time".

And the fact that there were no dominators to the same extend before Merckx. A relatively recent rider like Hinault was more consistently dominant than Coppi, and certainly far more dominant than any rider before Bartali

In the US sports scene yelling “Goat!” Is getting ubiquitous and meaningless—just something hyperbolic people shout for even short stretches of excellence. I think folks get caught up in using it without even thinking about the acronym.

 

[Netserk]

In the US sports scene yelling “Goat!” Is getting ubiquitous and meaningless—just something hyperbolic people shout for even short stretches of excellence. I think folks get caught up in using it without even thinking about the acronym.

Yes, it's common to use words with the sole purpose of conveying "yay!" or "booh!".