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Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Dec 15, 2023
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Yeah, after last year's showing that's exactly what I'm saying. Someone new could come along, or someone might make a jump in his progression (Pogacar or Evenepoel), and obviously there are some youngsters that might in the future. But now, I don't think Pogacar stood a chance against a Vingegaard that is perfectly prepared.
How did Vingegaard come back to win two consecutive tours after getting destroyed by Pogačar in 2021? It sure seemed impossible at that time.
 
Yes, by far.
But why? I know a hard Giro can cause "Giro legs" which can be observed in the 3rd week of TdF. But an easy Giro shouldn't cause that effect or at least much less. I mean even if they are training they will typically do a stage-per-day at this point, the only difference is they don't completely drain themselves during training - which is also true for easy Giro. There is some indication from the past a Giro can be a good prep for the Tour. Indurain, for instance, even Armstrong...

Doing classics programme, on the other hand, there are some conflicting goals regarding optimum weight, muscle mass, anaerobic vs. aerobic efficiency, etc.
 
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But why? I know a hard Giro can cause "Giro legs" which can be observed in the 3rd week of TdF. But an easy Giro shouldn't cause that effect or at least much less. I mean even if they are training they will typically do a stage-per-day at this point, the only difference is they don't completely drain themselves during training - which is also true for easy Giro. There is some indication from the past a Giro can be a good prep for the Tour. Indurain, for instance, even Armstrong...

Doing classics programme, on the other hand, there are some conflicting goals regarding optimum weight, muscle mass, anaerobic vs. aerobic efficiency, etc.
Timing. As easy as it may seem for Pogi to win the Giro, the workload is not easy here. They've had much better weather this year so far, but that can change. And then there's the risk of illness and crashes on top.

Indurain faded towards the end of the 1994 Tour. The next year he skipped the Giro, and was at his best ever in the Tour. It's always a compromise.
 
Lots of fun here...

Pogacar and the Giro has all to do with him wanting to win the Giro, nothing to do with Vingegaard being at the Tour. Pogacar takes on Van der Poel and Van Aerts in Flanders, or was he just doing that to have an excuse in case he was beaten by Remco in Liège and Lombardia? So trying Sanremo and Flanders as insurance policy? Of course not, what it shows is that Pogacar wants to win everything he has a realistic chance of winning. Giro might have happened already last year had he won the Tour in 22. Or not, first going for Flanders. That's done, so this year Giro, next year Flanders and Roubaix (you know, Roubaix just in case he can't beat Mathieu in Flanders....) then Tour.

The tactic or strategy changed now? Did it? Easy Giro now. Is it? No and no.

Change of strategy: He has won 3 stages, tried for 4 but was beaten by Narvaez on day 1. Except for that, it's pretty much what we expected. There's 0 indication so far that he's taking it easy, or easier than if Vingegaard was there 100% in July. Almost riding Thomas off your wheel in Fossano sure doesn't sound like taking it easy. And why would Pogacar and UAE change strategy anyway? That doesn't even make sense. Vingegaard will be at the Tour=ok, let's go crazy at the Giro, after all no need to stay fresh for the Tour, Vingegaard will win anyway! That's what they thought at UAE? Damn, they must be retards. Vingegaard there in July or not, 100% there or just 50%, changes nothing in the approach to the Giro for Pogacar. He wants to win the double, that means first do enough to win the Giro, then recovery time without losing the form. It's what happens between the Giro and the Tour that will decide how well the Tour goes, much less how he rides the Giro.
Easy Giro? No. Not even Pogacar can afford to just go at 90%. If others attack, even if it's "only" O'Connor, Tiberi, Thomas, Martinez, he will still have to follow. And no, he can't follow at 90%. He's good, but not superhuman. Will he go into the ultra-red zone every day? Probably no, but mostly because he would pay for that during the Giro, not during the TdF.
 
Tomorrow will be interesting. I have been looking to this time trial as the real test of Pogacar's ability in TT. I knew he would beat fairly easy Ganna in the first TT but this flat one will be thrilling to judge his aerodynamic position. It will be a good result if he ends up losing just 20 seconds to Ganna. However, I want to see if he can beat Ganna or am I being unrealistic?
 
Tomorrow will be interesting. I have been looking to this time trial as the real test of Pogacar's ability in TT. I knew he would beat fairly easy Ganna in the first TT but this flat one will be thrilling to judge his aerodynamic position. It will be a good result if he ends up losing just 20 seconds to Ganna. However, I want to see if he can beat Ganna or am I being unrealistic?
Beating Ganna would be a shocking unless the weather helped him out a lot.
 
Tomorrow will be interesting. I have been looking to this time trial as the real test of Pogacar's ability in TT. I knew he would beat fairly easy Ganna in the first TT but this flat one will be thrilling to judge his aerodynamic position. It will be a good result if he ends up losing just 20 seconds to Ganna. However, I want to see if he can beat Ganna or am I being unrealistic?
Special one told us about tt coach , aero position , expect Pogi is being better than remco in tts this year so we will see about that tomorrow
 
Tomorrow will be interesting. I have been looking to this time trial as the real test of Pogacar's ability in TT. I knew he would beat fairly easy Ganna in the first TT but this flat one will be thrilling to judge his aerodynamic position. It will be a good result if he ends up losing just 20 seconds to Ganna. However, I want to see if he can beat Ganna or am I being unrealistic?
If he wins, he should think about going for the double at the WC this year.
 
I don't think Pogacar can beat Ganna on this course but he will be closer than many here are giving credit. In the first TT it was clear he held back on the flatter part of the course to demolish the climb and he did. Well there is no climb on this stage.

I think this stage and tomorrow Pogacar seals the Giro. he can ride tempo for the remainder of the Giro and focus on not crashing. He isn't going to fade and who is realistically going to have the ability, let alone confidence to attack him?
 
He will not beat Ganna, but get some time on other GC contenders.

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How did Vingegaard come back to win two consecutive tours after getting destroyed by Pogačar in 2021? It sure seemed impossible at that time.

It didn't seem impossible to be honest.
He was at least equally strong in the second half of that Tour and he seemed like someone still improving. Whereas Pogacar didn't really improve in the Mountains since..2020?
 
It didn't seem impossible to be honest.
He was at least equally strong in the second half of that Tour and he seemed like someone still improving. Whereas Pogacar didn't really improve in the Mountains since..2020?
Yet despite what briefly happened on the Ventoux stage in 2021, curious why nobody had Vingegaard listed as a serious threat before the 2022 TdF? In fact, that was the case right up until the Granon stage.

Everyone seems wise in hindsight. Betting markets in early July 2022 confirmed this. Pogacar was stupidly over confident in 2022 and IMO in 2023 was affected by his LBL crash.

Also, in 2021, it is a stretch to say Vingegaard was "at least equally strong in the second half of that Tour".

Stage 17 - Saint-Lary-Soulan, Pogacar took 3 seconds on Vingegaard
Stage 18 - Luz Ardiden - Pogacar took 2 seconds on Vingegaard

After Luz Ardiden Pogacar had a 5'45" lead on Vingegaard.

Stage 20 TT, Vingegaard took back 25 seconds when the Tour was done and dusted.