Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Rackham]

absolutely. i do not disagree. perhaps the extent of the gap between them would not end up as much ultimately, but it would be waaaaaay wider than last year.

i posted elsewhere -- it is silly to think Rog would be much (if any) improved on last year. meanwhile the only variable likely to be in ascendence is an amazing 21 year old, now 22.

this has been the history of cycling forever. and for the umpteenth time I suggest you look at the difference between the manner of Fignon's two wins.

On the age factor (i.e. young riders getting better) you could be correct, but I'm a bit burned on that particular aspect of cycling after I spent years following (& supporting) Andy Schleck in the Tour.

The "he'll get better, he's young!" promise turned seriously sour by the end. So I'm not a total believer in young riders automatically improving with age. Likewise Roglic is an interesting case of someone who has reached huge heights but always had some mitigated circumstances which explained losses (like his pre-Tour dauphiné crash last year).

In Basque Country both Roglic & Pogacar were very evenly matched, so I based my assumption & predictions on that.

 

[solo80k]

...a poster here has been saying that for quite a while... ;-)

even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'd say he's in a form of his life. Just imagine 40+ km ITT. It would be AX3/PSM like knockout for GC guys with 2:30-3 minutes behind Pog.

 

[SafeBet]

Struggling to find many people that said "If Pogacar beats everyone in that first Tour ITT then they should definitely pick Roglic"

He was always the one who could give you a shot at the gold medal. Roglic not so much.
There's a clear difference in ceiling between the two. And as I previously said, I would never base my selection on consistency or floor.

 

[Big Doopie]

...after I spent years following (& supporting) Andy Schleck in the Tour.

The "he'll get better, he's young!" promise turned seriously sour by the end.

i think you have to be a little careful about comparing anything with the approx. 1991-2010 era -- lots of late-blooming riders in that era and not many young riders (other than Schleck and Ullrich perhaps). those two decades went against the norm in many ways.

i think rog is a great champion. but it is not just the youth thing. he also gives the impression of working very hard (kind of like Cadel Evans). Pog is regal, everything seems easy and fluid. and (beating a dead horse here), he reminds me of how Fignon rode in 1984. Fignon actually said he "laughed" when Hinault attacked towards L'Alpe, because he knew how superior his own form and capabilities were that Tour.

that is the impression Pog exudes.

 

[KZD]

Now tell me again it doesn't make sense to pick him for the Olympics TT.

He will probably be one of the favourites for that event too if he goes.

 

[jmdirt]

Great ride young man!

 

[IndianCyclist]

66 kg vs 83 kg. a david vs goliath story and goliath lost

 

[Gigs_98]

I'm genuinely more impressed by this performance than the PdBF TT. I could put a lot of that down to him simply being a better climber than the TT specialists. Like considering their respective shape if there had been a road stage finishing there nobody would have been surprised if Pogacar had put that amount of time on Dumoulin and Van Aert on that climb. Of course that win was a lot more meaningful and all of that, but this today is something I simply didn't think he could do despite already having witnessed last years performance. Honestly, what on earth can stop this guy? Have we reached the point where climbing is a bigger weakness of his than his TT?

 

[Red Rick]

I'm genuinely more impressed by this performance than the PdBF TT. I could put a lot of that down to him simply being a better climber than the TT specialists. Like considering their respective shape if there had been a road stage finishing there nobody would have been surprised if Pogacar had put that amount of time on Dumoulin and Van Aert on that climb. Of course that win was a lot more meaningful and all of that, but this today is something I simply didn't think he could do despite already having witnessed last years performance. Honestly, what on earth can stop this guy? Have we reached the point where climbing is a bigger weakness of his than his TT?

Sample sizes are still really low. And for his big performance on Prato di Tivo, he gained as much on the puny climbers in the 10km flat ITT if not more.

In the Tour last year he sure as hell won it more in the ITT than uphill vs Roglic too.

Still, sample sizes are ridiculously small in GTs for him still and we still have to see the big climbing stages this Tour.

 

[Bolder]

Tbf to his rivals they're battered and bruised right now. But I also think that staying out of harm's way is a skill in its own right.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Looks like this is settled now.

The real Eddy.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

reminded me of the TT Contador produced in 09 beating Cancellara. Will we see a similarly dominating performance in the mountains?

 

[jmdirt]

I just saw TP's post race interview that he stopped so that he could accept congrats from MvdP!

EDIT: OK, either twitter or CN isn't playing nice with links?

 

[perico]

Yeah but Roglic is crippled.

I mean a mummified crippled Roglic only lost 44 seconds today, so that "convincing Pogacar win" scenario only came about because Roglic went into the ditch. That was not predictable.

2013 Froome meanwhile was inherently head & shoulders above all his rivals. He was in 2014 as well, but he himself went into a ditch & had a DNF which made Nibali look like a Terminator.

Just some food for thought.

This isn’t the thread to debate 2014, but Contador had been just as strong as Froome that entire season, and perhaps even a bit stronger considering that Froome finished behind Contador in every GC race they rode the entire season, including the Vuelta that they both started banged up.

 

[Pantani_lives]

If you want to compare him to someone from the past I would say Greg LeMond. He's the relaxed, flamboyant guy, very good at a very young age, it seems to come easily, and he took yellow in the final time trial. I advise him to avoid hunting parties.

 

[johnymax]

He surprised me yesterday, I have to admit. I didn't expect him to be that strong. Top5 yes, but not a convincing win like that.

 

[yaco]

Based on hit ITT form in 2021, reckon Pogacar did about 30 to 40 seconds better than expected - Stage 20 ITT may not be a guide because he may have an unassailable lead by that time.

 

[Gargamel35]

From now on, every GC contender will first check Pogačars timetable for a season ahead and then go race elsewhere.

 

[SafeBet]

I'm genuinely more impressed by this performance than the PdBF TT. I could put a lot of that down to him simply being a better climber than the TT specialists.

He was already top2 in the flat part if I'm not mistaken.
Perhaps we should start consider him as an elite TTer at least for GTs.

Sample sizes are still really low. And for his big performance on Prato di Tivo, he gained as much on the puny climbers in the 10km flat ITT if not more.

In the Tour last year he sure as hell won it more in the ITT than uphill vs Roglic too.

Very true.
But I believe we have yet to see the best from Pog, his career trajectory points to him being better than last year (as it should be for a 22 years old rider).

 

[Jan the Man]

Exceptional performance yesterday to beat specialists in a TT which suited them.

Whereas it looks pretty difficult to see anyone competing with him this year we haven’t had a mountain stage yet, so we should not jump to conclusions until after the Alps/Ventoux.

 

[Bolder]

If you want to compare him to someone from the past I would say Greg LeMond. He's the relaxed, flamboyant guy, very good at a very young age, it seems to come easily, and he took yellow in the final time trial. I advise him to avoid hunting parties.

As a French-American, I approve this comparison. LeMond was on the way to a legendary career had he not gotten shot. As it was he merely had an incredible one.

I can't argue with any of the superlatives attached to Pogacar, but I'd say only that he's not yet been as dominant as he could be. He barely won the Tour last year, he hasn't won this Tour yet with crippled rivals, and Roglic has looked just as good in weeklong races, and has won a few big one-days. And recall that Bernal was on a similar GT trajectory (TT notwithstanding), got injured but still has 2 of the 3 GT prizes at age 24.

But yeah, all things being equal and barring bad backs, errant road furniture, clinic issues or hunting accidents, he's on his way to a better palmares than anyone I can think of in recent memory, because there's a lot of classics he can win -- and he seems to like them -- plus (at this point) as many GTs as he wants...surely he'll get a RR WC, maybe even an ITT WC...

 

[Lequack]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1410253121578733573

View: https://twitter.com/DeGendtThomas/status/1410253121578733573

 

[Red Rick]

But I believe we have yet to see the best from Pog, his career trajectory points to him being better than last year (as it should be for a 22 years old rider).

Basically don't know until later because he didn't get a decent spring campaign in last year.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

Struggling to find many people that said "If Pogacar beats everyone in that first Tour ITT then they should definitely pick Roglic"

With all respect for Roglic, Tadej seems the best option to pick for it at the moment.

He suprised me yesterday but his explanations “I started to hard at NC and Basque country) make indeed sense. He had good first time spots there.

But still no word on the slovenian selection. The relationship between Rog and Pog is well below freezing point so not sure how they will work together for the olympics.

And the national coach is Hauptman

 

[The pet snake of Froome]

however to be fair -- there were reasons for that (froome and contador out), even if you think nibali would have still won...

Which he wouldn’t have