Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

he's disappointing me...

fignon had 5 stage victories in 84. though most of them came late.

let's hope pog goes apesh!t on ventoux to get the stage victories rolling.

#fignon84

Hope you're right, but it could just be the 2nd ITT.

 

[BlueRoads]

The funny thing is that I don't think Pogacar is at his absolute physical peak. When you look at other top guys during GTs (i.e. Roglic and previously Froome or Contador) they are so skinny, almost no fat, absolutely peak shape. Maybe it's just me but I think Pogacar still has some reserves in body mass department, maybe a couple of kilos. If that's the case it's scary for his rivals but OTOH operating at a slightly higher fat level is healthier and enables an athlete to keep his form for longer (peak is fragile and short-lasting).

I don't know whether Pogacar is at his peak, but I think his race weight is just fine for him and he would lose power if he lost additional weight.

 

[Oldermanish]

Ulrich came up against a better organized force and his own demons...Schleck was fortunate Contador got banned, overworked his engine, and then came Skybots...Bernal was the "Masi" of cycling before anyone heard of Pogacar. Pogacar, by contrast, is confirming his dominance (as in his previous wins this year at Tirreno, LBL, etc.)

He is at the least the new Bernard Hinault, unless a bigger fish comes along, but I doub't it.

The rapid development of younger riders makes comparisons to the Old Guard difficult. There are so many young, strong and aggressive riders that train better. A few fans whine about the legitimacy of Pogacar's strength but he's the last strong rider standing after the rest day. Carapaz showed the willingness to fight on Stage 8 but he'd spent all of his bonus energy on prior stage attacks for glory....that gained nothing. That and Uran and Carapaz are the only guys in the top 10 that have flirted with the podium or a GT win. Geraint Thomas, Richie Porte, Primoz....all out of contention due to their own training or mishaps so Tadej emerges as the major benefactor over a beat-up peloton. He still has 2 weeks to go and is a mishap away from the same fate. Way to early to call anyone the new Badger.

 

[42x16ss]

Adding to this he did it by himself. No painful train where 5/7 best climbers in the race ride for the same team and you just get to watch the winding down of gc contenders slowly and painfully. This kid attacked with 30km to go and obliterated everyone with 1.5 mountains to go. If this spectacle wasn’t cool to watch I don’t get what people want from this sport. If people didn’t like this, chances are they’ve never liked a single of the great climbers of cycling history and perhaps should just stick to watching classics. These days it’s seems that only Pantani and Contador are allowed to have performed insanely without being called out negatively by most.

You do know that it's possible to praise a rider here and acknowledge their discrepancies in the clinic, right? Quite a few people have done it over the years, even with the likes of Vino.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Here is a good summary of the TdF so far:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1411329771338928130

View: https://twitter.com/JohanBruyneel/status/1411329771338928130

 

[TomBonnen2005]

The best gift Pogacar could do to cycling is to reiterate those performances in another team (away from ghosts from the past like Gianetti, Hauptman, and San Milan). Why such a talented kid is taking the risk to be compared to ricco, piepoli and Vinokourov while he could win the tour with a team part of the MPCC like DSM or EF? Money? We need to see legendary stuff like the 30km raid of Saterday, but above all we need to believe it's possible to break climbing records alone in bad weather and headwind the day after a 250km stage race at 45km/h. I hope he'll take the risk, for cycling.

 

[SafeBet]

The best gift Pogacar could do to cycling is to reiterate those performances in another team (away from ghosts from the past like Gianetti, Hauptman, and San Milan). Why such a talented kid is taking the risk to be compared to ricco, piepoli and Vinokourov while he could win the tour with a team part of the MPCC like DSM or EF? Money? We need to see legendary stuff like the 30km raid of Saterday, but above all we need to believe it's possible to break climbing records alone in bad weather and headwind the day after a 250km stage race at 45km/h. I hope he'll take the risk, for cycling.

He's not gonna leave millions on the table just to prove a point to a few internet sceptics.

 

[Offline]

The best gift Pogacar could do to cycling is to reiterate those performances in another team (away from ghosts from the past like Gianetti, Hauptman, and San Milan). Why such a talented kid is taking the risk to be compared to ricco, piepoli and Vinokourov while he could win the tour with a team part of the MPCC like DSM or EF? Money? We need to see legendary stuff like the 30km raid of Saterday, but above all we need to believe it's possible to break climbing records alone in bad weather and headwind the day after a 250km stage race at 45km/h. I hope he'll take the risk, for cycling.

I think Matxin Joxean Fernandez and Allan Peiper is some of the best advisor and innovative thinking people in cycling.

 

[Pantani_lives]

For a suspenseful race you need a climber who loses some in the time trials and takes back some in the mountains. Now we get someone who takes time on both terrains - bad for suspense. Somehow I still can't imagine that he's going to do this for the next ten years. It's going to easily. You can compare his current dominance to Hinault or even Merckx, but they had completely different personalities. They were fighters, hard workers. For Pogacar it seems to come without effort. He looks like a boy having a run at a scouts' camp. Will something stop him or will he continue like this for years? The future will tell.

 

[TomBonnen2005]

For a suspenseful race you need a climber who loses some in the time trials and takes back some in the mountains. Now we get someone who takes time on both terrains - bad for suspense. Somehow I still can't imagine that he's going to do this for the next ten years. It's going to easily. You can compare his current dominance to Hinault or even Merckx, but they had completely different personalities. They were fighters, hard workers. For Pogacar it seems to come without effort. He looks like a boy having a run at a scouts' camp. Will something stop him or will he continue like this for years? The future will tell.

Only the time trials taking place in July, the rest of the year he's slower than guys such as Tratnik, Polanc, Foss, Mcnulty, Berg, Bissegger, Latour, Bevin, ... Which is a bad news for the Ganna's of this world targeting the Olympic Gold on the 28th of... July

 

[KZD]

Only the time trials taking place in July, the rest of the year he's slower than guys such as Tratnik, Polanc, Foss, Mcnulty, Berg, Bissegger, Latour, Bevin, ... Which is a bad news for the Ganna's of this world targeting the Olympic Gold on the 28th of... July

Its Roglic that is scheduled for the Olympic TT rather than Pogačar. However I guess that this can still change due to his injury.

Still, he rode very good time trials in the UAE and especially in Tirreno Adriatico.

 

[Landeirovic]

Marc Soler no seguirà al Movistar i l'UAE podria ser el seu equip el 2022 - 05 juliol 2021

El vilanoví du set anys com a professional al conjunt navarrès, amb qui potser no corri més per les lesions

www.lesportiudecatalunya.cat

Marc Soler and Pedrero can go to Uae for Pogacar. DLC will go to Movistar

 

[Red Rick]

Marc Soler doesn't seem like the best get as a super domestique

 

[Offline]

Marc Soler doesn't seem like the best get as a super domestique

Money can probably do it. Ineos have created lots of good helpers there could have won big things themself.

 

[Oldermanish]

For a suspenseful race you need a climber who loses some in the time trials and takes back some in the mountains. Now we get someone who takes time on both terrains - bad for suspense. Somehow I still can't imagine that he's going to do this for the next ten years. It's going to easily. You can compare his current dominance to Hinault or even Merckx, but they had completely different personalities. They were fighters, hard workers. For Pogacar it seems to come without effort. He looks like a boy having a run at a scouts' camp. Will something stop him or will he continue like this for years? The future will tell.

Considering his actual racing experience the may be physically more mature than the boyish face indicates. That could also suggest his peak may be now, rather than in his late 20's. The rare exceptions like Valverde find inspiration to continue when they can't race at their historical peak. Tadej may hit that inspiration dead zone that ends his career, too. Again; Hinault and Merckx did it until either the pain was unavoidable (Merckx) or they met the next generation and were humbled (Hinault). Pogacar by all measure works super hard but he's strong enough to look fluid.
Watching Nairo in yesterday's stage the same attributes come to mind. He looked very much the strong and likely stage winner right up to the point he shut down and O'Conner went on to win the biggest race of his young career. The really good riders almost always look like they're not trying.

 

[Lui98]

I want to share my thoughts about Pogačar here and not on the Clinic because I think he really is a level above the others GC contenders. He is a kind of rider that I didn't think I would have witnessed in my lifetime, a true all-rounder that gives us spectacular performances that only the absolute greatest of the sport did in the past.
I don't know if he is going to grow, or If this is his peak level, but to me, as a cycling fan this is nothing short of an amazing thing to see. I hope he can continue to show this kind of level for the years to come, because I am sincerely happy to witness the performances of this kid.

 

[Mayofan]

Pogi is Thermo Nuke but the field weak

The 3 best climbers in the world are sadly Not in Form or Here ..

MAL ( in his best Days)
Bernal
Rogla

Are the ones who would Fight ..

Well,i guess U would Need, 99 Giro Pantani,98 Jaba or Armstrong to catch Up

But, atleaat Rogla with that Form vinegaarrd, and Prime Kuss ( to me 2020 was the best mountain Dom since Heras , with some Props to poels,Froome,Porte)

 

[Landeirovic]

Landa is here not to.

 

[Mayofan]

Landa with Some Bahrain "extra" , maybe.

But hast shown nothing since Giro 2015 that would suggest He would just Drive with the Rest tbh

 

[Netserk]

For a suspenseful race you need a climber who loses some in the time trials and takes back some in the mountains. Now we get someone who takes time on both terrains - bad for suspense. Somehow I still can't imagine that he's going to do this for the next ten years. It's going to easily. You can compare his current dominance to Hinault or even Merckx, but they had completely different personalities. They were fighters, hard workers. For Pogacar it seems to come without effort. He looks like a boy having a run at a scouts' camp. Will something stop him or will he continue like this for years? The future will tell.

You just need vulnerability and a worthy rival. Like in 2003.

 

[Ranagazoo]

It's odd that Pog doesn't get anywhere close to the same worship as the likes of Contador or even Pantani, other climbers who loved to attack and were on a different planet to everyone else on their day.

Actually this Tour reminds me a bit of the 2011 Giro where Contador was taking minutes every time the road went up but we had some great stages anyway. And that Giro seems popular around here, I bet this Tour won't be

 

[Roku]

Pogacar reminds me in terms of riding to 2009 Contador - Bold and a class of his own. Personality-wise seems much more appealling (which is very easy)

On the other hand, with the level he is showing, i don't think a healthy Roglic or Bernal could match him.

 

[OlavEH]

Anyone who has numbers of Pogacar's climbs the last days? Either VAM or climbing time compared to earlier years. I'm pretty sure he is on par with or better than the best performances from Contador, Froome and Quintana. But the distance to the rest of the GC contenders this year could imply that is doing something more unique than any of those three. I'm not sure that is the case though. The quality of the closest contenders this year (after Roglic and Thomas crashed) seems pretty mediocre. If Pog were to crash now, we would (IMO) have the weakest winner in many, many years.

 

[Lequack]

Fun fact: on the last stage he was wearing his big wristwatch (most likely sponsorship deal), which added some 50-100 grams to the weight as well. Didn't seem to affect him though.

 

[Oldermanish]

Anyone who has numbers of Pogacar's climbs the last days? Either VAM or climbing time compared to earlier years. I'm pretty sure he is on par with or better than the best performances from Contador, Froome and Quintana. But the distance to the rest of the GC contenders this year could imply that is doing something more unique than any of those three. I'm not sure that is the case though. The quality of the closest contenders this year (after Roglic and Thomas crashed) seems pretty mediocre. If Pog were to crash now, we would (IMO) have the weakest winner in many, many years.

I'd agree. Each Tour has a need for some parity to be "entertaining" and losing Roglic, Thomas and Ineos demonstrating for a second Tour a big deficit of depth makes it one dimensional. Carapaz tries and most everyone else just flinches because they're afraid of losing more time. If no rider is willing to chase Tadej he is free to totally bury himself like a TT and gain maximum time. Absent challenges that is going to be a dull situation. Between UAE and DQS the pack has been rendered impotent with only the Bahrain raiders taking risks.