Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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yaf said:
Not really, for 2024 pog there is no direct rival & on flanders we will see clear & laugh on the best classics riders in mvdp,wva& pederson when he sweeps them away by 3 minutes. His biggest & only rival(indirect) for 2025 season is philipsen b/c he would be the only one who could snatch a win from pog or make other riders win by making sanremo a tactical race. I will be incredibly surprised If mvdp takes the gamble of working with pog in the valley down cipressa with poggio ahead.
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MVDP is the key person, since he can impact the race. Either by attacking like he won the race in 2023 or sacrificing himself to chase like he did in 2024, for his teammate.

MVDP is the key person. Not Philipsen.

Philipsen is not the one that can impact the race by himself, but he can definitely win it if the right scenario plays out for him. The attackers are brought back and he is in the group for a sprint.

And I definitely believe MVDP would like the odds in 1 vs 1 in a sprint against Pog, at last a great chance to win, if either cant go solo from each other but everyone else is left behind. It would be a great fight nonetheless.

If MVDP is able to stay with Pog and it is just the two of them in the valley... I would be surprised if MVDP just sits on. Then he is not interested in winning, which I would be surprised with, if such a scenario plays out. Then he would just be marking Pog.

I can only see MVDP chase if the scenario is like last year. Philipsen shortly behind in a small first group, where he is the best sprinter. Then MVDP likely sacrifces himself. Not if him and Pog are solo.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Salvarani said:
MVDP is the key person, since he can impact the race. Either by attacking like he won the race in 2023 or sacrificing himself to chase like he did in 2024, for his teammate.

MVDP is the key person. Not Philipsen.

Philipsen is not the one that can impact the race by himself, but he can definitely win it if the right scenario plays out for him. The attackers are brought back and he is in the group for a sprint.

And I definitely believe MVDP would like the odds in 1 vs 1 in a sprint against Pog, at last a great chance to win, if either cant go solo from each other but everyone else is left behind. It would be a great fight nonetheless.

If MVDP is able to stay with Pog and it is just the two of them in the valley... I would be surprised if MVDP just sits on. Then he is not interested in winning, which I would be surprised with, if such a scenario plays out. Then he would just be marking Pog.

I can only see MVDP chase if the scenario is like last year. Philipsen shortly behind in a small first group, where he is the best sprinter. Then MVDP likely sacrifces himself. Not if him and Pog are solo.
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You are talking about MVP but Pogi can't drop WVA too
 
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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

Jul 7, 2013
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Peyroteo94 said:
So it is a feeling. I think he didn't get worse. There were plenty of races where he completely shattered the race with his acceleration.
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Because others were dead by then while his superior engine enabled him to demolish the competition in the finale. Then again, I'm not comparing his explosivity with other GC guys (he's much better OFC) but the problem could be a guy like MVP in a race with little climbing.
 
Miss Violet Smith

Miss Violet Smith

Mar 26, 2023
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Lequack said:
What did he do to his hair?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856449753350914283
View: https://twitter.com/SapFred18/status/1856449753350914283


GcIp7iuWsAAleZU

GcIBot0WUAAyhnv
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The only possible explanation.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/DCUcDFBu6GW/?igsh=cmQ1c2E2Y21kcmd5
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Krzysztof_O said:
Because others were dead by then while his superior engine enabled him to demolish the competition in the finale. Then again, I'm not comparing his explosivity with other GC guys (he's much better OFC) but the problem could be a guy like MVP in a race with little climbing.
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Cycling is an endurance sport, even sprinters are not "pure sprinters". They still need to endure 180 km before sprinting. Pure sprinters are on track.
Pogacar never was the most explosive guy in the peloton. Not in 2023, not in 2022.
 
yaf

yaf

Mar 12, 2024
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Salvarani said:
MVDP is the key person, since he can impact the race. Either by attacking like he won the race in 2023 or sacrificing himself to chase like he did in 2024, for his teammate.

MVDP is the key person. Not Philipsen.

Philipsen is not the one that can impact the race by himself, but he can definitely win it if the right scenario plays out for him. The attackers are brought back and he is in the group for a sprint.

And I definitely believe MVDP would like the odds in 1 vs 1 in a sprint against Pog, at last a great chance to win, if either cant go solo from each other but everyone else is left behind. It would be a great fight nonetheless.

If MVDP is able to stay with Pog and it is just the two of them in the valley... I would be surprised if MVDP just sits on. Then he is not interested in winning, which I would be surprised with, if such a scenario plays out. Then he would just be marking Pog.

I can only see MVDP chase if the scenario is like last year. Philipsen shortly behind in a small first group, where he is the best sprinter. Then MVDP likely sacrifces himself. Not if him and Pog are solo.
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Our definitions of "a key person" is totally different. I see a person as key when he has a better chance to win the race or has the lion share of deciding the outcome.

In our case of msr no matter how strong mvdp is if we get pogacar on 2024 world championships form then mvdp has no chance if the race opens on cipressa b/c the pog i saw in WC his power didn't drop throughout his 100km solo raid which mvdp also said he has never seen such a performance & also said pogs era has only started

My conclusion is mvdp will not gamble on working with pog in the valley of cipressa with philipsen being his card. But if as you say mvdp works with pog down in the valley of cipressa with poggio waiting ahead it would be suicide for him.
 
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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yaf said:
Our definitions of "a key person" is totally different. I see a person as key when he has a better chance to win the race or has the lion share of deciding the outcome.

In our case of msr no matter how strong mvdp is if we get pogacar on 2024 world championships form then mvdp has no chance if the race opens on cipressa b/c the pog i saw in WC his power didn't drop throughout his 100km solo raid which mvdp also said he has never seen such a performance & also said pogs era has only started

My conclusion is mvdp will not gamble on working with pog in the valley of cipressa with philipsen being his card. But if as you say mvdp works with pog down in the valley of cipressa with poggio waiting ahead it would be suicide for him.
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I bet my house MVP would be happy in working with Pogacar. He beats Pogi 9/10 in a sprint.
 
S

Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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yaf said:
Our definitions of "a key person" is totally different. I see a person as key when he has a better chance to win the race or has the lion share of deciding the outcome.

In our case of msr no matter how strong mvdp is if we get pogacar on 2024 world championships form then mvdp has no chance if the race opens on cipressa b/c the pog i saw in WC his power didn't drop throughout his 100km solo raid which mvdp also said he has never seen such a performance & also said pogs era has only started

My conclusion is mvdp will not gamble on working with pog in the valley of cipressa with philipsen being his card. But if as you say mvdp works with pog down in the valley of cipressa with poggio waiting ahead it would be suicide for him.
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Ok, fair enough. We can agree to disagree.

Both on your definition of "key person" and the other parts.
 
S

Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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AmRacer said:
Or gets dropped before the sprint.
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Plausible, but if Pog attacks and MVDP can respond... even as early as Cipressa and they get a gap to a peloton that has exploded... I think MVDPs best chance to win the race is working with Pog and try to hold on in Poggio. He knows it or he is just not riding to win for himself. Unless it is on Poggio and Philipsen is 5 seconds behind going into the descent. Just like last year.

Because sitting on and allowing others to come back... thats not good for MVDP either.

Doesnt seem like the guy that would do that either, if being in a duo that has left everyone else behind.
 
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YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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yaf said:
Our definitions of "a key person" is totally different. I see a person as key when he has a better chance to win the race or has the lion share of deciding the outcome.
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But that fits MVDP perfectly and excludes Philipsen. Philipsen cant decide the outcome on his own, doesn't hava a chance to stay with Pog and can't win solo. MVDP can do all of this. The only way of Jasper winning is if somebody catches (MVDP) Pogacar for him. But then the likes of Pedersen/WVA/Matthews are very likely to be on the group as well and any of them beasts Pog in a sprint, so I don't see how you can claim that Philipsen is the one deciding the outcome.

Cipressa is a very easy climb where a peloton of 30 may be 5-10 seconds behind Pogacar. And as strong as his engine is, I see no chance of him holding a dedicated group of domestics. I don't think it's fair to compare MSR to any race Pogacar won this year.
 
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YavorD

YavorD

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Peyroteo94 said:
RAI says Pogacar will race Tour-Vuelta next year. Just put Angliru there to see my boy smash Heras's climbing record
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I wouldn't put Vuelta as a sure thing even he announces that he is 100% there.
A lot will depend on how he comes out of the Tour. If it's a very hard battle (say like 2022), I can see him skipping the Vuelta to prepare for the Worlds
 
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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YavorD said:
I wouldn't put Vuelta as a sure thing even he announces that he is 100% there.
A lot will depend on how he comes out of the Tour. If it's a very hard battle (say like 2022), I can see him skipping the Vuelta to prepare for the Worlds
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Vingegaard almost won the Vuelta after being at home with his familly in 2023. And that Tour wasn't a walk in the park. Pogacar will race the Vuelta, this new coach knows what he is doing (not saying San Millan was a bad coach. I'm not an expert to assess that).
 
YavorD

YavorD

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Peyroteo94 said:
Vingegaard almost won the Vuelta after being at home with his familly in 2023. And that Tour wasn't a walk in the park. Pogacar will race the Vuelta, this new coach knows what he is doing (not saying San Millan was a bad coach. I'm not an expert to assess that).
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Vingegaard has nothing in common as he didn't care about the Worlds.
Pogacar does and he will most probably have to fight Vingegaard in the Vuelta as well. So (depending on the balance between the 2) Pogacar would have 2 GT's fought hard against Vingegaard before the WC. That's hardly a good preparation.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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YavorD said:
Vingegaard has nothing in common as he didn't care about the Worlds.
Pogacar does and he will most probably have to fight Vingegaard in the Vuelta as well. So (depending on the balance between the 2) Pogacar would have 2 GT's fought hard against Vingegaard before the WC. That's hardly a good preparation.
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That's my wet dream. Pogi vs Fisherman rivalry 2 times in the same year
 
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Extinction

Extinction

Jan 8, 2020
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Oldermanish said:
Better to give it a shot than accept staying in the field for top 20 in my book. But I raced like an amateur against pros so no dignity was lost when it came to nothing. It also gave me some breathrough results which the current state of the peloton desperately needs to counter Pogacar.
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I too raced against pros, but it depends on the race, both tactically and in terms of the terrain. In a flat crit you go whenever and with whoever the opportunity arrises and on occasion beat national champs and fetted pros. By contrast, in a 200 km race over mountains in Abruzzo you settle for 15th place against Di Luca, because all you could do was follow until getting dropped. If they did not attack Pogacar, it's because they weren't able too.
 
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