Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Great performance from Pogačar to win Clasica Jáen. May he never stop having racing like this. As for him riding Paris-Nice, I am a bit surprised especially given that the hilly stages in Tirreno would suit him really well and in Paris Nice there is a TTT so its going to be difficult for him to beat Vingegård

Because Vingegaard is a worldbeater early season?

 

[CyclistAbi]

They are arch rivals this season. From Pogi perspective it hence likely makes sense. Especially as the current form seem good. He needs some feedback on where things stand ATM. Obviously all geared towards the Tour.

 

[Salvarani]

They are arch rivals this season. From Pogi perspective it hence likely makes sense. Especially as the current form seem good. He needs some feedback on where things stand ATM. Obviously all geared towards the Tour.

Friends close, enemies closer right?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I wonder if Peiper had something to do with it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Friends close, enemies closer right?

Maybe bullying. We'll see.

 

[Red Rick]

Going to Paris-Nice instead of Tirreno seems very strange. You have no rest after Strade, which hardly helps, and you have the disadvantage of the TTT.

I don't think it's a scheduling improvement for the spring monuments or the Tour, so probably he just wants to diversify his palmares. That or ASO decided to grab some cash to change Pogs mind?

If he suddenly skips Strade and and Milano Sanremo we know he just has major beef with RCS now

 

[CyclistAbi]

Likely considered being in slight "disadvantage" is even preferred in this case. As imagine if Pogi cracks Jonas at PN. That would change things. If he fails in doing that. Then still it was PN and not the Tour. Regardless of the outcome alarms will go off. And there is no way Pogi won't try to win this race. Add the Rogla and Remco duel at Catalunya. This will likely be a rather special year. And i am rather thankful that this season i don't have to think about the ways on how one Slovenian could beat another one. Well. Maybe at Vuelta. We'll see.

All in all not much to complain about so far.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And when Pogi had a mechanical. We all knew in what position his bike was on the car.

P.S. Some teams still struggle a bit with that.

 

[KZD]

Because Vingegaard is a worldbeater early season?

Where did I say that Vingegård is a world beater in the early season?

However you seem to be underrating Vingegård's performances in the early season. Yes, he lost 2 minutes to Pogačar last season but it was a race with 2 hilly stages, a short flat TT and a double ascent to a roughly 20 minute climb in a very cold day, all things in which Pogačar is stronger than Vingegård. In contrast, Paris-Nice this season has a 32km TTT were Jumbo is more likely to gain time on UAE and a roughly 40 minute climb. Stage 4 and especially stage 8 could be interesting but its not going to be easy for Pogačar to drop Vingegård there either. Maybe he is just thinking in diversifying his palmares, but neither a Paris Nice win or another Tirreno win are going to add much to his career and if the goal is measuring himself against Vingegård earlier in the season, this is almost the worst route possible.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Where did I say that Vingegård is a world beater in the early season?

However you seem to be underrating Vingegård's performances in the early season. Yes, he lost 2 minutes to Pogačar last season but it was a race with 2 hilly stages, a short flat TT and a double ascent to a roughly 20 minute climb in a very cold day, all things in which Pogačar is stronger than Vingegård. In contrast, Paris-Nice this season has a 32km TTT were Jumbo is more likely to gain time on UAE and a roughly 40 minute climb. Stage 4 and especially stage 8 could be interesting but its not going to be easy for Pogačar to drop Vingegård there either. Maybe he is just thinking in diversifying his palmares, but neither a Paris Nice win or another Tirreno win are going to add much to his career and if the goal is measuring himself against Vingegård earlier in the season, this is almost the worst route possible.

You said it would be difficult to beat Vingegaard, while talking about a rider who has proven himself to be able to hit peak performances early in the season on all sorts of terrain. Strade, Flanders, Tirreno, UAE... Where as Vingegaard has never given the impression to be anywhere near his TDF form. Not saying he's bad, but no match for Pogacar. The TTT might be in favor of Vingegaard, but to conclude it would be difficult for Pog to beat Vingegaard seems rather optimistic (or pessimistic, depending on your point of view i guess).

 

[Colonel]

Pogacar chamboule ses habitudes de reprise et reste en Espagne en février

Le Slovène Tadej Pogacar, qui a étonnamment choisi de zapper l'UAE Tour, effectue sa reprise ce lundi sur les chemins de terre d'une semi-classique andalouse. Avant d'autres surprises pour la suite de son programme ?

www.lequipe.fr

l'Equipe are quite sure he will do the unfathomable double of Strade > Paris-Nice, and that his presence in the latter is to remain a secret between UAE and ASO for God knows what reason(s).

I mentioned this in December wrt to Paris Nice in the schedule - it’s good and a change to the Tour prep is good sometimes also

 

[Roku]

It's great he races Paris Nice. The race is a bit more relevant than Tirreno, which he has already won twice anyways.

Vingegaard won't have neither Van Aert nor Roglic. He won't have such a strong team and I don't think they open an insurmountable lead after the TTT.

 

[Extinction]

... Where as Vingegaard has never given the impression to be anywhere near his TDF form. Not saying he's bad, but no match for Pogacar. The TTT might be in favor of Vingegaard, but to conclude it would be difficult for Pog to beat Vingegaard seems rather optimistic (or pessimistic, depending on your point of view i guess).

I guess that depends on how winning the Tour has or hasn't changed him. In theory Vingegaard will have grown, physically and mentally, from the experience of winning the Tour and beating Pogacar. How badly or not Vingegaard would want to win PN is also significant. If he's using it as a training race then obviously his level won't be sufficient, but if he plans to be competative for the win then his level should be very good. Still, the way Pog makes dominating look so easy in the early season Vingegaard will need very good legs indeed to beat him.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I guess that depends on how winning the Tour has or hasn't changed him. In theory Vingegaard will have grown, physically and mentally, from the experience of winning the Tour and beating Pogacar. How badly or not Vingegaard would want to win PN is also significant. If he's using it as a training race then obviously his level won't be sufficient, but if he plans to be competative for the win then his level should be very good. Still, the way Pog makes dominating look so easy in the early season Vingegaard will need very good legs indeed to beat him.

The TTT might make it more interesting in that regard. It should be a closer race than without it.

 

[Nick2413]

Likely considered being in slight "disadvantage" is even preferred in this case. As imagine if Pogi cracks Jonas at PN. That would change things. If he fails in doing that. Then still it was PN and not the Tour. Regardless of the outcome alarms will go off. And there is no way Pogi won't try to win this race. Add the Rogla and Remco duel at Catalunya. This will likely be a rather special year. And i am rather thankful that this season i don't have to think about the ways on how one Slovenian could beat another one. Well. Maybe at Vuelta. We'll see.

All in all not much to complain about so far.

Has there been any word about Vingegaard’s priorities this season? Obviously Tour, but does he plan to branch out a bit or be more aggressive outside of the Tour?

 

[Salvarani]

Going to Paris-Nice instead of Tirreno seems very strange. You have no rest after Strade, which hardly helps, and you have the disadvantage of the TTT.

I don't think it's a scheduling improvement for the spring monuments or the Tour, so probably he just wants to diversify his palmares. That or ASO decided to grab some cash to change Pogs mind?

If he suddenly skips Strade and and Milano Sanremo we know he just has major beef with RCS now

He basically did the same in Jaen as he did in Strade last year.

He has won both these gravel races now. Maybe he wont try to defend his win in Strade.

Ride P-N, because it would be a great race to add to his palmares, and then line-up for MSR. There is only really MSR and the Giro left for him to win in Italy, out of the biggest races.

I would not go as far as saying "we know" that there has been a beef. I think that is getting ahead of yourself. Maybe just negotiation tactics starting early to line up a lucrative offer to have him at the Giro in 2024.

 

[KZD]

You said it would be difficult to beat Vingegaard, while talking about a rider who has proven himself to be able to hit peak performances early in the season on all sorts of terrain. Strade, Flanders, Tirreno, UAE... Where as Vingegaard has never given the impression to be anywhere near his TDF form. Not saying he's bad, but no match for Pogacar. The TTT might be in favor of Vingegaard, but to conclude it would be difficult for Pog to beat Vingegaard seems rather optimistic (or pessimistic, depending on your point of view i guess).

There is no doubt that Pogačar is better in stage one week stage racer than Vingegård but a stage race with a long TTT plus a long MTF shifts the balance towards Vingegård. Not that I think its impossible for Pogačar to win it and its good that he tries to win different races but given the route, the fact that he will race in Italy before and after PN and the possibility of given a morale boost to Vingegård if the Dane wins, I think Tirreno would have been a better choice.

 

[Red Rick]

He basically did the same in Jaen as he did in Strade last year.

He has won both these gravel races now. Maybe he wont try to defend his win in Strade.

Ride P-N, because it would be a great race to add to his palmares, and then line-up for MSR. There is only really MSR and the Giro left for him to win in Italy, out of the biggest races.

I would not go as far as saying "we know" that there has been a beef. I think that is getting ahead of yourself. Maybe just negotiation tactics starting early to line up a lucrative offer to have him at the Giro in 2024.

I don't think Paris Nice is worth skipping Strade for by any stretch.

The RCS thing was a joke lol

 

[Extinction]

The TTT might make it more interesting in that regard. It should be a closer race than without it.

Right I only wish It were an ITT, because in the event it were a tight GC, I wouldn't want a TTT to decide the victor.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Has there been any word about Vingegaard’s priorities this season? Obviously Tour, but does he plan to branch out a bit or be more aggressive outside of the Tour?

He's going to do pretty much the same as usual with the exception that he won't ride the Ardennes, so don't expect fireworks before July.

But he has been improving every year so far, so perhaps he'll still be quite strong in the races before the Tour. We'll see when he starts his season in Spain next week.

 

[Extinction]

Going to Paris-Nice instead of Tirreno seems very strange. You have no rest after Strade, which hardly helps, and you have the disadvantage of the TTT.

I don't think it's a scheduling improvement for the spring monuments or the Tour, so probably he just wants to diversify his palmares. That or ASO decided to grab some cash to change Pogs mind?

If he suddenly skips Strade and and Milano Sanremo we know he just has major beef with RCS now.

To the bolded, why would he have a major beef with RCS? Did something happen that I missed? As far as I recall, he's always been treated well in Italy and RCS races. I agree that doing Strade Bianche and then PN is risky if he intends, as undoubtedly he will, win the French race.

 

[Red Rick]

He's going to do pretty much the same as usual with the exception that he won't ride the Ardennes, so don't expect fireworks before July.

But he has been improving every year so far, so perhaps he'll still be quite strong in the races before the Tour. We'll see when he starts his season in Spain next week.

Vingegaard being bad outside July is overblown in my opinion. In 2021 he won a stage in UAE, won Settimana, then got 2nd in Itzulia. Last year he was 2nd in Tirreno and was battling for the podium in Itzulia as well.

He was literally winning 1.1 races in February last year, like Pog is doing now.

 

[hfer07]

Gotta love & respect a GT rider willing to start his season so competitive since day one Kudos to Pogačar

 

[Nick2413]

Vingegaard being bad outside July is overblown in my opinion. In 2021 he won a stage in UAE, won Settimana, then got 2nd in Itzulia. Last year he was 2nd in Tirreno and was battling for the podium in Itzulia as well.

He was literally winning 1.1 races in February last year, like Pog is doing now.

Sort of, but for how big of a world beater he is at the Tour, the disparity is jarring.

 

[Andy schleck]

I guess that depends on how winning the Tour has or hasn't changed him. In theory Vingegaard will have grown, physically and mentally, from the experience of winning the Tour and beating Pogacar. How badly or not Vingegaard would want to win PN is also significant. If he's using it as a training race then obviously his level won't be sufficient, but if he plans to be competative for the win then his level should be very good. Still, the way Pog makes dominating look so easy in the early season Vingegaard will need very good legs indeed to beat him.

If vingegaard improved even more physically, that would be even more scary to his opponents.