Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Maxss]

As a Vingegaard fan, I can't believe some people are writing Tadej off for TDF. He's the best rider in the world, no one in their right mind can claim otherwise.

Last 2 TDF's Tadej faced a superior team with a deplited team (2022) and a superior rider while he himself didn't have the optimal preparation (2023).

While it's impossible to assess their development over the next year (Jonas and Tadej), it's safe to say UEA are gonna be stronger next year. they have added Sivakov and they could potentially throw in Almeida/Ayuso as well (Both have a GT podium). Adam Yates performed superbly this year and will probably only get better.

I'm not saying he's the favourite, but to write him off completely is insane IMO.

 

[veganrob]

If he loses more weight, he can lose power, things don't work like that. He already is very light.

Seemed to work ok for your anorexic namesake. All he had to do was lose the weight, right? hahaha

 

[Elos Anjos]

Pogacar will not win TdF again whole Jonas is present. Jonas has his number. Simple as that.

For small minds, holding an hammer means everything becomes hammerable.

 

[Panda Claws]

Word salad

I wasn't too sure at first but you've convinced me now. It would be foolish to doubt such intimate knowledge.

In recorded cycling history it has almost never happened that a TDF champion, especially one winning more thab once, managed to later beat the upstart that dethroned him. Let alone when it happened twice.

What'll definitely never happen imo is that Vingegaard, Pogacar and Evenepoel (which granted it's not certain that he'd get to the necessary GT level) will distribute TDF wins between them. One, and likely two, of them will be left largely empty-handed.

Winning TDF is way more about consistent watts than monuments.

Wrist argument doesn't work for me because of Vingegaard's stunning ITT. Not sure Pogacar would even be capable of that.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I wasn't too sure at first but you've convinced me now. It would be foolish to doubt such intimate knowledge.

In recorded cycling history it has almost never happened that a TDF champion, especially one winning more thab once, managed to later beat the upstart that dethroned him. Let alone when it happened twice.

What'll definitely never happen imo is that Vingegaard, Pogacar and Evenepoel (which granted it's not certain that he'd get to the necessary GT level) will distribute TDF wins between them. One, and likely two, of them will be left largely empty-handed.

Winning TDF is way more about consistent watts than monuments.

Wrist argument doesn't work for me because of Vingegaard's stunning ITT. Not sure Pogacar would even be capable of that.

This can be a statistical outlier but of course it has some bearing. I'm not up to scrutinize the cases that make it up, but I'll just say that some of them are certainly age-related. One young rider was ascending, the other rider is on the decline from his ceiling. This is not the case with Pogi and Vingo.

I would go to Giro-Vuelta if was Pogacar. Making Vingo comfortable, not making the TDF an obssession that "spoils" the calendar. I think Pogi is also a star in the way he manages the pressure and granted that he has a choice in what races he goes to, it's much more interesting to vary his palmares right now than to go all-in to the TdF. Of course he has two good points in both of the TdFs he lost that give him a psychological cushion: huge tactical errors when pursuing Roglic (2022) and lack of base preparation + bad TT reading + possible illness.

 

[kn0s]

This can be a statistical outlier but of course it has some bearing. I'm not up to scrutinize the cases that make it up, but I'll just say that some of them are certainly age-related. One young rider was ascending, the other rider is on the decline from his ceiling. This is not the case with Pogi and Vingo.

I would go to Giro-Vuelta if was Pogacar. Making Vingo comfortable, not making the TDF an obssession that "spoils" the calendar. I think Pogi is also a star in the way he manages the pressure and granted that he has a choice in what races he goes to, it's much more interesting to vary his palmares right now than to go all-in to the TdF. Of course he has two good points in both of the TdFs he lost that give him a psychological cushion: huge tactical errors when pursuing Roglic (2022) and lack of base preparation + bad TT reading + possible illness.

I'm curious about this "illness". I always thought the Mnt Blanc stage was a little strange, but never really figured out what happened. Any significant problems is probably not really realistic, when looking at his performance through the race, as I didn't see a block of underperforming, just instances.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'm curious about this "illness". I always thought the Mnt Blanc stage was a little strange, but never really figured out what happened. Any significant problems is probably not really realistic, when looking at his performance through the race, as I didn't see a block of underperforming, just instances.

Pogacar had a great threshold w/kg during the Tour, no doubts about it. His performances started to deteriorate from Mt Blanc stage though (the weakness wasn't exposed then yet but he cracked totally on Loze). His preparation, influenced by the broken wrist, could've been the cause.

 

[Froome]

Pogacar had a great threshold w/kg during the Tour, no doubts about it. His performances started to deteriorate from Mt Blanc stage though (the weakness wasn't exposed then yet but he cracked totally on Loze). His preparation, influenced by the broken wrist, could've been the cause.

The performance of pogacar on Mt blanc was good in terms of numbers, just like he did a great ITT. If it wasn't for vingegaard he would have won the TT with a margin of 1 min and 13s to van aert.
He only had one bad day, because on stage of vosges , three days later, he was good and won the stage.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The performance of pogacar on Mt blanc was good in terms of numbers, just like he did a great ITT. If it wasn't for vingegaard he would have won the TT with a margin of 1 min and 13s to van aert.
He only had one bad day, because on stage of vosges , three days later, he was good and won the stage.

Joux-Plane was the last time Pogacar managed to get any gap on Vinge. Afterwards he attacked only once (Vosges) but totally lacked punch by then. It's clear that he worsened after JP (his ITT was still decent but Vinge's ITT was incredible).

 

[Nick2413]

I’d like to see a comparison of w/kg in 3rd week vs 1st week. I’m still not bought into the theory that Vinge is winning by having less fatigue deep into a GT but rather that he’s at his absolute best at that point in the race. Yes Pog blowing on Loze and Granon is an example of fatigue/attrition but overall Vingegaard is his strongest at that point in the race it seems.

 

[Froome]

I’d like to see a comparison of w/kg in 3rd week vs 1st week. I’m still not bought into the theory that Vinge is winning by having less fatigue deep into a GT but rather that he’s at his absolute best at that point in the race. Yes Pog blowing on Loze and Granon is an example of fatigue/attrition but overall Vingegaard is his strongest at that point in the race it seems.

Les watts du duel Vingegaard/Pogacar sur le TdF 2023, par Frédéric Portoleau

Sur le Tour de France 2023, le duel Vingegaard-Pogacar pour le classement général fut très indécis jusqu'au contre-la-montre de Combloux avec une lutte intense sur chaque étape de montagne. Cet article synthétise les performances réalisées par les 2 coureurs sur ce Tour 2023 ainsi qu'une...

www.chronoswatts.com

 

[Offline]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715253481328505102

View: https://twitter.com/puertoapuerto_/status/1715253481328505102

 

[Rob5091]

2023 start in Spain, 2024 start in Portugal (according to the rumours) -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...in-portugal-at-the-figueira-champions-classic
Although he may not have secured himself his main goal of a third Tour de France title in 2023, Tadej Pogacar had a very impressive season regardless. In 2024, there are rumours of a change in goals and reportedly the UAE Team Emirates leader will begin his campaign in Portugal.

According to the Portuguese outlet, A Bola, "a source close to UAE Team Emirates," has told them that the current Slovenian National Champion will begin his 2024 season at the Figueira Champions Classic (10th of February) and the Volta ao Algarve (from 14 to 18 February).

 

[Offline]

2023 start in Spain, 2024 start in Portugal (according to the rumours) -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...in-portugal-at-the-figueira-champions-classic
Although he may not have secured himself his main goal of a third Tour de France title in 2023, Tadej Pogacar had a very impressive season regardless. In 2024, there are rumours of a change in goals and reportedly the UAE Team Emirates leader will begin his campaign in Portugal.

According to the Portuguese outlet, A Bola, "a source close to UAE Team Emirates," has told them that the current Slovenian National Champion will begin his 2024 season at the Figueira Champions Classic (10th of February) and the Volta ao Algarve (from 14 to 18 February).

If that's true he skips UAE Tour again.
If it was up to me he should just start with Strade Bianche with altitude training before.

 

[Lequack]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715253481328505102

View: https://twitter.com/puertoapuerto_/status/1715253481328505102

Nice. Algarve is when he first burst onto the pro scene with a stage and GC victory, in 2019. Certainly more varied than UAE Tour.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

If that's true he skips UAE Tour again.
If it was up to me he should just start with Strade Bianche with altitude training before.

Figeuira Classic + Algarve is basically the exact same start as Jaen classic + Andalucia. And that seemed to work quite well? He dosen't crash in LBL and he wins Paris-Nice + Flanders + Amstel + Fleche + Liege

 

[Salvarani]

Pog/Almeida for the Giro

Yates/Ayuso for the Tour

 

[bNator]

Pog/Almeida for the Giro

Yates/Ayuso for the Tour

Why? Me being Rogla fan, Giro is just not a real satisfaction when won. It can be a beautiful race with great mountains and amazing scenery. But if you want to see who’s who, you’re doing the Tour…

 

[Salvarani]

Why? Me being Rogla fan, Giro is just not a real satisfaction when won. It can be a beautiful race with great mountains and amazing scenery. But if you want to see who’s who, you’re doing the Tour…

I dont really care about your satisfaction.

 

[bNator]

I dont really care about your satisfaction.

You will care next year while witnessing two of the most boring GTs in last 20 years…

Pog doing Giro and skipping Tour is a terrible idea and I fail to see anyone benefitting from that - except maybe TJV and Vingegaard.

 

[Salvarani]

You will care next year while witnessing two of the most boring GTs in last 20 years…

Pog doing Giro and skipping Tour is a terrible idea and I fail to see anyone benefitting from that - except maybe TJV and Vingegaard.

No, I truly wont.

I think a Giro-win would a good thing for Pog, if he can win. He has been going twice against Vingegaard now and lost. Let someone else give it a go. Pog is young enough to win another Tour later, he has already won it twice anyway. Lets see what they decide. He could still end up going. Why do you care?

Is Roglic not good enough, eh? You dont believe in your guy?

Stop being so pessimistic. The race is not until about 10 months from now. Anything could happen.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Why? Me being Rogla fan, Giro is just not a real satisfaction when won. It can be a beautiful race with great mountains and amazing scenery. But if you want to see who’s who, you’re doing the Tour…

Giro is the most epic grand tour and every one of the best GT riders wants it in their palmares. Its a real satisfaction when it is won by a proper GT rider like Contador, Nibali, Froome, Pogacar , vingegard, pantani etc. Maybe not when it is contested by weak wheelsuckers like roglic, gerant Thomas and Almida

 

[Froome]

No, I truly wont.

I think a Giro-win would a good thing for Pog, if he can win. He has been going twice against Vingegaard now and lost. Let someone else give it a go. Pog is young enough to win another Tour later, he has already won it twice anyway. Lets see what they decide. He could still end up going. Why do you care?

Is Roglic not good enough, eh? You dont believe in your guy?

Stop being so pessimistic. The race is not until about 10 months from now. Anything could happen.

He knows deep inside that roglic can't beat Vingegaard in the Tour......even pogacar can't.

It was almost "hilarious" roglic going full gas on angliru and vingegaard even without being in tour france's shape, could follow him without major problems.

 

[Froome]

Giro is the most epic grand tour and every one of the best GT riders wants it in their palmares. Its a real satisfaction when it is won by a proper GT rider like Contador, Nibali, Froome, Pogacar , vingegard, pantani etc. Maybe not when it is contested by weak wheelsuckers like roglic, gerant Thomas and Almida

It was one of the main reason why the giro 2023 wasn't that good. The route wasn't good, but also 3 wheelsuckers that can't attack and don't want to give some entertainment......

 

[bNator]

He knows deep inside that roglic can't beat Vingegaard in the Tour......even pogacar can't.

It was almost "hilarious" roglic going full gas on angliru and vingegaard even without being in tour france's shape, could follow him without major problems.

I don’t have to go very deep inside to know Roglic has a slim chance of winning the Tour. Just because I’m a fan doesn’t mean I’ve lost my touch with reality. Still, as long as there’s a chance, he should go for it. As should Pog.

Luckily the riders we are talking about are fighters and won’t see Tour being reduced to 3 week long Vingegaard parade to Champs Elysees.

As per your Angliru comment, I will never understand the inclinations behind mocking a rider for attacking and winning the hardest climb in the Vuelta. You are only showing your lack of character to give credit where credit is due…