Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Berniece]

And MVDP was destroyed during Liege. Was very mediocre in Amstel, a race Pogacar dominated last year. We can continue this to the end of time, you see?

Pogacar has a wider range of classics he can win AND has shown to be even better than MVDP in the race that suits him the best on the calender.

And I still don’t see him as the best single day rider

 

[Valv.Piti]

And I still don’t see him as the best single day rider

Fair enough, obviously wrong, but fair enough.

 

[YavorD]

And he was destroyed during the WC RR

A course that was tailor made for MVDP (of course nothing wrong with that).
If WCRR next year has a Lombardia-like course is MVDP even in contention?

Hell, if Pogacar isn't toi tired for Zurich, he would destroy MVDP there already. So what? Both are great classic riders but while Pogacar can sometimes get close to MVDP on his own turf and sometimes even beat him, Van Der Poel isn't close to Pogacar in most of the hilly one day races (that doesn't have cobbles).

 

[Peyroteo94]

A course that was tailor made for MVDP (of course nothing wrong with that).
If WCRR next year has a Lombardia-like course is MVDP even in contention?

Hell, if Pogacar isn't toi tired for Zurich, he would destroy MVDP there already. So what? Both are great classic riders but while Pogacar can sometimes get close to MVDP on his own turf and sometimes even beat him, Van Der Poel isn't close to Pogacar in most of the hilly one day races (that doesn't have cobbles).

TY! And we can add Pogi was very tired after the Tour and didn't make an optimal preparation for Glasgow. The same can't be said about MVP.

 

[YavorD]

TY! And we can add Pogi was very tired after the Tour and didn't make an optimal preparation for Glasgow. The same can't be said about MVP.

Let's be honest, no. Even with an optimal preparation Pogacar wouldn't be close to VDP on that course.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Let's be honest, no. Even with an optimal preparation Pogacar wouldn't be close to VDP on that course.

You don't know. I still think MVP would win though

 

[scribers]

TY! And we can add Pogi was very tired after the Tour and didn't make an optimal preparation for Glasgow. The same can't be said about MVP.

I was stunned at how well pogi did at glasgow

 

[tobydawq]

And I still don’t see him as the best single day rider

Not insufferable debating style at all.

 

[Extinction]

Every sport demonstrate that. In the beginning of every sport, we had massive differences between riders/teams/clubs and the tendency is to this gap reduce with time.
We no longer see a player so dominant as Hendry or Steve Davis in snooker (or Joe Davis in the beginning of the sport)
We no longer see Real Madrid or big national teams win 10-0 regularly.
We no longer see a franchise like Celtics win and obliterate the NBA.
We no longer see a rider like Merckx in cycling that win every important race.
I have nothing against Merckx however we have a different sport now, a lot more competitive and balanced sport with way more professional riders.
For me Pogacar is the GOAT of "new cycling" (specialization era).

It comes down to genetics: if Merckx is superior to Pogacar then he does better, but between generations and all the tech/dddjyrvb advancements it's not possible to know. So going on palmares is futile, in so far as the gap between epochs is irreconciliable. For you would have to put Merckx in Pogacar's era and vice versa, which is impossible.

 

[Berniece]

Not insufferable debating style at all.

Haha. I don’t think there’s much to discuss, we named all the reasons why one is better than the other and we disagree.

 

[Nick2413]

View: https://youtu.be/p8_FOQ7-P30?si=8qWDla781oXAIuEd

 

[seasidehiking]

I don’t doubt Pogacar would beat a modern day Merckx with all the bells and whistles of today. But would Pogacar beat as many farmers as Merckx did if racing in that era’s conditions and preparation? Completely different ballgame and impossible to know.

How can you not know the one and totally have no doubt about the other??? The things you get to read here. There is simply not knowing when comparing generations.

 

[seasidehiking]

It comes down to genetics: if Merckx is superior to Pogacar then he does better, but between generations and all the tech/dddjyrvb advancements it's not possible to know. So going on palmares is futile, in so far as the gap between epochs is irreconciliable. For you would have to put Merckx in Pogacar's era and vice versa, which is impossible.

Your post makes too much sense in this forum! I love it!

 

[Nick2413]

How can you not know the one and totally have no doubt about the other??? The things you get to read here. There is simply not knowing when comparing generations.

I agree, that’s basically what I’m saying, the main difference being cycling is a much more international sport now with far more potential candidates, so it is harder to be the best now than in the past. But still not possible to know for sure how things would shake out.

 

[Fos]

Why wouldn't Vingegaard be better than Pogacar on the Giro? I actually think the old hard routes of the Giro, especially in the third week, would benefit even more Vingegaard, because the famous long plus steep climbs with altitude like colle delle Finestre, Gavia, mortirolo, fauniera, Stelvio are even more better for Vingegaard than climbs like the usual climbs of the Tour who normally are less steep with some exeptions.

Vingegaard is also good in the cold, no problem about that.

But Tadej is not as good as Jonas in heat above 30º, and we have seen that in recent Tours (even on the famous hot Ventoux day). So if conditions are equal...

 

[Peyroteo94]

UAE looks scary good this season. They are winning many races with a large variety of riders.
Other thing I have been noticing is how better they are in TT.

 

[Peyroteo94]

[deleted content]

Yes, Pogi is what we thought Remco would be. I am a massive fan of Remco but he needs to leave Quickstep and step up his game, specially in GT's.

 

[Froome]

But Tadej is not as good as Jonas in heat above 30º, and we have seen that in recent Tours (even on the famous hot Ventoux day). So if conditions are equal...

In a traditional route of the Giro, with mountain stages >4000 vertical meters, even with cold and snow, in long, steep climbs with altitude like Gavia, Mortirolo, Finestre, Stelvio, i would bet always on Vingegaard.

He will have always advantage on that type of stages because he weighs less 7 kg than Pogacar, even if they have almost the same height. He has advantage in the KJ thing.

 

[Froome]

Yes, Pogi is what we thought Remco would be. I am a massive fan of Remco but he needs to leave Quickstep and step up his game, specially in GT's.

Remco doesn't need to leave Quickstep. It would be a big mistake.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Remco will likely do MSR and Flanders next year. I think this is perfect for Pogi. Another rider to make the race agressive and hard, specially in Cipressa.

 

[velaso montador]

Just saw Geraint Thomas said that Pogacar was on par with Merckx all over Insta he was qoted saying ''Pogacar is on par with Merckx. The wins he has and how he races ist just phenomenal. Pog is GOAT status. Ureal''

Pretty insane when active riders among the peleton even says that, it really show how special he is, just wow.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Just saw Geraint Thomas said that Pogacar was on par with Merckx all over Insta he was qoted saying ''Pogacar is on par with Merckx. The wins he has and how he races ist just phenomenal. Pog is GOAT status. Ureal''

Pretty insane when active riders among the peleton even says that, it really show how special he is, just wow.

I think whenever Thomas sees anyone attack he thinks they‘re riding like Merckx. He seems to not be the no.1 expert. Also, no active cyclists have actually seen Merckx race so they can‘t compare them that well.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Just saw Geraint Thomas said that Pogacar was on par with Merckx all over Insta he was qoted saying ''Pogacar is on par with Merckx. The wins he has and how he races ist just phenomenal. Pog is GOAT status. Ureal''

Pretty insane when active riders among the peleton even says that, it really show how special he is, just wow.

I don't think it's that insane. Riders often highlight riders they've either ridden with/against or some they were fans of growing up. Merckx has been neither in G's case, and speaking too highly of riders from the past isn't necessarily a smart move either these days.

 

[scribers]

lol riders who make statements as such tower over those who try to denigrate their opinion.

Merckx himself referred to pogi abilities and achievement in context to his own. Anyone care to pick apart Merckx’s assessment?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

lol riders who make statements as such tower over those who try to denigrate their opinion.

Merckx himself referred to pogi abilities and achievement in context to his own. Anyone care to pick apart Merckx’s assessment?

I'm just saying that riders can have horrible and/or very biased takes at times (much like myself). We've just seen De Vlaeminck's comments, for instance.

And with Pogačar's current dominance in mind, it's to be expected that the media will pick up on it whenever someone praises him or does the opposite.