Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Krzysztof_O]

Do we have a route for MSR?

No idea but I wouldn't expect a revolution. Teddy vs the rest + not enough gravity.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Dropping pogacar? right now vingegaard isn't thinking about dropping pogacar, he is trying to not get dropped

Right now he is trying to get better of his old self like Pogacar.
One thing I notice is Vingegaard is way more bulky in his legs. You can underestimate him how many times you want, but nothing will change the fact that Pogi was beaten twice by Vingo. I think Pogi is the best GT rider but the gap between them is not big at all. I can be wrong but right now, evidence shows they are very similar with 2-2 in the Tour. For me stage 7 is where Vingegaard can drop Pogi, I don't think he will at all but all other stages are favouring Pogacar a lot compared to Vingegaard.

 

[James M]

It's still very far away and a lot of things can happen in the meantime (crashes, injuries, change of schedule etc)
MSR and RVV are races I'm most excited about in the first part of the season and I'm not looking past them.

Tour is just 3 weeks and most of the cycling season is not in summer, so much great stuff before that indeed. (If Pog dont crash Tour gonne be over really fast anyway..most of the tour excitment is the build up)

Would be awesome if Vingegaard was better at classics, I would love it but unfortunately he isnt, If Vingegaard showed up at the ardennes and out of the blue performed my respect for him would greatly intensify.

 

[James M]

I can be wrong but right now, evidence shows they are very similar with 2-2 in the Tour. For me stage 7 is where Vingegaard can drop Pogi, I don't think he will at all

Man your overestimating him alot,

Vingegaard 2 GT, 4 Tour stages, 6 GT stages overall his entire career.

Pogacar 2 GT, 6 Tour stages, 12 GT stages in (+ 2 monuments + a WC) in 1 year..

 

[yaf]

Right now he is trying to get better of his old self like Pogacar.
One thing I notice is Vingegaard is way more bulky in his legs. You can underestimate him how many times you want, but nothing will change the fact that Pogi was beaten twice by Vingo. I think Pogi is the best GT rider but the gap between them is not big at all. I can be wrong but right now, evidence shows they are very similar with 2-2 in the Tour. For me stage 7 is where Vingegaard can drop Pogi, I don't think he will at all but all other stages are favouring Pogacar a lot compared to Vingegaard.

The chance of Vingegaard beating or dropping pogacar in a 1 week race is like the odds of the sun rising in the west and setting in the east. Never gonna happen even for the old pog

 

[Monsi]

I'd be careful not to underestimate a fully prepared Jonas. I still think Pogi will be able to handle him but if there's a guy I wouldn't underestimate, it's Jonas.

 

[yaf]

I'd be careful not to underestimate a fully prepared Jonas. I still think Pogi will be able to handle him but if there's a guy I wouldn't underestimate, it's Jonas.

What happened to the fully prepared jonas in 2023 tour? He constantly got spanked for 2 weeks by the under prepared pog only with the last week pogs engine died and lost too much time which plays into peoples mind that ving was better that year.

To understand that in a more vivid pic just look at what happened to un under prepared ving the last tour, he did his best numbers for 2 weeks like pog did but run out of engine at the start of 3rd week. By the way he was so lucky that there were no decisive back to back stages at the start of the 3rd week like in 2023 TT cambloux & col de la loze b/c in 2024 after the 2nd rest day it was a flat stage and back to back breakaway stages. If u saw him at the 17th stage where carapaz won he was on his limit and could have lost too much time to remco but he had another day to recover before isola. So what i would say is ving didn't win in 2023 b/c of his 3rd week dominance but pog was just unlucky that the most decisive back to back days were located on the period where he needed to reset

 

[yaf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885425990697885923

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1885425990697885923?t=nSVXzuzhQ4dfhFkDOXCeAw&s=19

Confirmed and i would bet jonas will not be at the start of la vuelta!
mark it✍️

 

[James M]

I think Pogi is the best GT rider but the gap between them is not big at all. I can be wrong

In every numbers Vingegaard is closer to Evenepoel than he is Pogacar in performance numbers,thats just facts, Now will he get better indeed I think so (but so will others likely etc,) still remains to be seen kinda thing if he can catch up still.

Just so were clear Vingegaard obviously is byy far the closest in GT, but its not particular close in numbers like you say, thats just straight up wrong, the gap in all metrics is not like something weve seen in recent years.

I'd be careful not to underestimate a fully prepared Jonas. I still think Pogi will be able to handle him but if there's a guy I wouldn't underestimate, it's Jonas.

Indeed it would be foolish im not as big Jonas guy like someone else and thats fine, (last year Roglic, Evenepoel everyone woulda beat Pog and I personally just think some people overrate that fact,)Nvm this Pog is not comparable to that anyway but just as to why i think it to some degree.

THAT said I agree with you, Vingegaard is a monster, underestimating him would be foolish, he did once in 22 and paid dearly. Jonas is great, and if he can get close to these Pog climbing numbers has now then all honor to him seriously.

He is a monster and doubt anyone would underestimate him, he is one of the best climbers of all time, but its still levels to things and with the current gap just since( i wouldnt put to much into it if not) but its so huge its a looong shoot and has to improve so much to manage to not even get dropped nvm drop.

But TLDR if anyone can get close to his climbing numbers next few years I obviously also think its gonne be Jonas.

 

[hayneplane]

The ego thing is fascinating but Pogacar makes everyones job crystal clear and easy obv but even in races without him I suspect just cause they have so many, literally stacked and everyone knows it.

The ego thing becomes a little less detrimental - they know its top riders left, right and center and therefor nothing is given but earned, and dont bruise their ego in the same way if was not given a chance in lets say Lotto, you get my point. Just cause its so many stars there, the ego dont get harmed the same way i suspect. They know what they signed up for and who their teammates are and therefor nothing is given but earned on the day and they have the benefit often of numbers.

They really impressed in RVV last year, that was special even and even PR and Kurne, E3, Suisse etc they did really good.

Catalunya 2 years ago was the ultimate example of too many cooks spoiling the broth as Ayuso pushed hard at the front on a descent whilst Almeida was being dropped at the back due to his iffy descending abilities.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'd be careful not to underestimate a fully prepared Jonas. I still think Pogi will be able to handle him but if there's a guy I wouldn't underestimate, it's Jonas.

This. No one is saying Vingegaard will win but he can challenge Pogi

 

[James M]

Catalunya 2 years ago was the ultimate example of too many cooks spoiling the broth as Ayuso pushed hard at the front on a descent whilst Almeida was being dropped at the back due to his iffy descending abilities.

Indeed but Ayuso is the exception and obviously a rat. In general terms its good to have numbers in finals, they did a awesome job last year on several occasion at least and in theory its an advantage to have more than not.

But for me definitely the ego part which I btw agree on (obv alot of em and every top rider in the sport has it to some degree and they should) I think its less detrimental when your on a team with that many top riders it somewhat less detrimental and dont bruise your ego that much when its so many stacked riders left and right than to lets say Lotto.

 

[scribers]

I might be the outlier in that I like the antihero drama Ayuso brings to these races. Memes of fat people trying to hide behind trees as Ayuso trying to hide at the back of the selection group is comedy gold.

 

[James M]

WC plan B if things escalate etc.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885394413674791354

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1885394413674791354

 

[hayneplane]

WC plan B if things escalate etc.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885394413674791354

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1885394413674791354

I would very much hope that Rwanda will still go ahead as it is an important step for the global cycling community.

That said, it was hugely disappointing to lose this WC to Covid. The first climb likely would not do anything much other than drop the continental level riders but this is highly likely to be well over 7 hours in the saddle with 7 hill repeats of 3.8km at 10.5% gradient in the second half of the race.

 

[Peyroteo94]

WC plan B if things escalate etc.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885394413674791354

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1885394413674791354

This route is even more tailormade to Pogacar than WC in Rwanda

 

[Peyroteo94]

But I also hope to see a WC in Africa. It would be a great event to bring cycling to Africa's radar

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Right now he is trying to get better of his old self like Pogacar.
One thing I notice is Vingegaard is way more bulky in his legs. You can underestimate him how many times you want, but nothing will change the fact that Pogi was beaten twice by Vingo. I think Pogi is the best GT rider but the gap between them is not big at all. I can be wrong but right now, evidence shows they are very similar with 2-2 in the Tour. For me stage 7 is where Vingegaard can drop Pogi, I don't think he will at all but all other stages are favouring Pogacar a lot compared to Vingegaard.

There are two factors:

1) It's obvious Vingo wasn't at his best during the last Tour due to a serious crash. One can speculate how much better he could've been but IMO the gap would've been significantly smaller.

2) Motivation factor: Vingo is super motivated to come back stronger than ever after the defeat: the way Pogacar was last year. We should not underestimate this. OTOH Pogacar had a dream season and maybe his motivation will be slightly lower this time, slightly less hungry (even if only 1% less, whatever it means).

To sum up Pogacar is #1 favourite but Vingo is also a realistic potential TdF winner (not as big underdog as some here think). Vingo winning the Tour wouldn't be surprising to me. No realistic chance for the rest or riders IMO. Battle of the mutants, chapter 5 incoming.

 

[Peyroteo94]

There are two factors:

1) It's obvious Vingo wasn't at his best during the last Tour due to a serious crash. One can speculate how much better he could've been but IMO the gap would've been significantly smaller.

2) Motivation factor: Vingo is super motivated to come back stronger than ever after the defeat: the way Pogacar was last year. We should not underestimate this. OTOH Pogacar had a dream season and maybe his motivation will be slightly lower this time, slightly less hungry (even if only 1% less, whatever it means).

To sum up Pogacar is #1 favourite but Vingo is also a realistic potential TdF winner (not as big underdog as some here think). Vingo winning the Tour wouldn't be surprising to me. No realistic chance for the rest or riders IMO. Battle of the mutants, chapter 5 incoming.

I agree with you. However I don't think Pogacar will relax this year. What can make Pogacar lose the Tour is his preparation. He will only practise long climbs in May and June when Vingegaard is preparing his all season to be at his best in the Tour.

 

[KZD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885425990697885923

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1885425990697885923?t=nSVXzuzhQ4dfhFkDOXCeAw&s=19

Confirmed and i would bet jonas will not be at the start of la vuelta!
mark it✍️

Pogačar can win 10 stages in this Vuelta but he will probably take it easier because of the Worlds.

I wonder how the TT route will be if the Worlds are changed to Switzerland.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogačar can win 10 stages in this Vuelta but he will probably take it easier because of the Worlds.

I wonder how the TT route will be if the Worlds are changed to Switzerland.

Depends what happens in the Tour. If he wins it without exhausting himself then Vuelta is on the cards. If he goes too deep then I think he will skip it to focus on the WC.

 

[AmRacer]

Depends what happens in the Tour. If he wins it without exhausting himself then Vuelta is on the cards. If he goes too deep then I think he will skip it to focus on the WC.

Pogi needs the Vuelta to complete the GT's

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogi needs the Vuelta to complete the GT's

Vuelta enables schedule flexibility. If he feels gassed after the Tour then they will decide to rest and focus on the WC defence instead of going tired to the Vuelta (with a bigger chance of losing) and missing WC peak. Tour is not the Giro (as Vingegaard is not Thomas), the fatigue will be considerably bigger.

 

[KZD]

Depends what happens in the Tour. If he wins it without exhausting himself then Vuelta is on the cards. If he goes too deep then I think he will skip it to focus on the WC.

I agree that he should only ride the Vuelta if he feels ready for it, however if the Worlds are moved to Switzerland, the likelihood of him riding the Vuelta increases as he would lose less time in travel and to acclimatise.

 

[YavorD]

Vuelta enables schedule flexibility. If he feels gassed after the Tour then they will decide to rest and focus on the WC defence instead of going tired to the Vuelta (with a bigger chance of losing) and missing WC peak. Tour is not the Giro (as Vingegaard is not Thomas), the fatigue will be considerably bigger.

And not just that. With Vingegaard going to the Vuelta don't see how he would go through 2 hard battles with Vingegaard. before the WC.

Now if Vingegaard didn't go to the Vuelta, he would win it easily and even after a hard Tour wouldn't be massive problem IMHO