Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

The problem is that the only rider capable of matching/exceeding Pogs uphill acceleration is a better descender and sprinter (Mvp). Plus there are a few guys both very fast and very good descenders who can catch Pog and beat him at the end. MSR is really a difficult puzzle but Lets see how an improved (since last summer) version of Pog handles it. Demolishing Poggio once more or Cipressa?

MVP will not last forever and I wouldn't underrate Pogacar's descending skills. He is good (not worldclass) and he knows those roads very well. His TT last year in Nice shows how good he can be in roads he knows with his eyes closed.

 

[Poursuivant]

Pretty mad to read competitors talking like this:




"We have to be realistic, there's nothing we can do. Pogačar can race without calculating his effort. Van der Poel can too, but us humans have got to think carefully about every effort we make in a race," Bettiol said.

"I hope Pogačar attacks early on Saturday, after UAE hurt everyone on the San Martino in Grania sector with 100km to race. He can clear off, do his thing, and things fall into place.

"That's safer for him, he can avoid any crashes and pace his effort. If he gains a minute, he can have the team car with him in case he punctures. For the rest of us it'll then be fast and furious behind as we race for second place. I like our chances for a place on the podium alongside Pogačar.

"That's still a result anyone and everyone should be proud of. Being beaten by Pogačar is not a dishonour, it's a 'success' to remember and cherish when we are old and retired and talk to our kids about our career and we understand just how good Pogačar was during his career."

 

[Peyroteo94]

2 days for the second Pogenheimer!
We didn't see anythibg in UAE Tour to be honest. But in SB, we can finally compare him with 2024 Pogacar.

 

[Cookster15]

The problem is that the only rider capable of matching/exceeding Pogs uphill acceleration is a better descender and sprinter (Mvp). Plus there are a few guys both very fast and very good descenders who can catch Pog and beat him at the end. MSR is really a difficult puzzle but Lets see how an improved (since last summer) version of Pog handles it. Demolishing Poggio once more or Cipressa?

I think Cipressa makes more sense for Pogi? If he uses his team to attack and get a decent gap on MvP there that would neutralize the Poggio. And in being forced to chase, by the Poggio, MvP's legs will lose their snap.

It depends on what level Pog is at but based upon his rides at SB, LBL, worlds (especially) and most other one day races he destroyed in 2024 he won't have any problem staying away. So descending Poggio and any disadvantage to better descenders/sprinters is taken out of the equation.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pretty mad to read competitors talking like this:




"We have to be realistic, there's nothing we can do. Pogačar can race without calculating his effort. Van der Poel can too, but us humans have got to think carefully about every effort we make in a race," Bettiol said.

"I hope Pogačar attacks early on Saturday, after UAE hurt everyone on the San Martino in Grania sector with 100km to race. He can clear off, do his thing, and things fall into place.

"That's safer for him, he can avoid any crashes and pace his effort. If he gains a minute, he can have the team car with him in case he punctures. For the rest of us it'll then be fast and furious behind as we race for second place. I like our chances for a place on the podium alongside Pogačar.

"That's still a result anyone and everyone should be proud of. Being beaten by Pogačar is not a dishonour, it's a 'success' to remember and cherish when we are old and retired and talk to our kids about our career and we understand just how good Pogačar was during his career."

Who said these quotes?

 

[Cookster15]

Who said these quotes?

Alberto Bettiol

 

[Peyroteo94]

Alberto Bettiol

Another one showing too much respect for the 2nd Great One

 

[snipeheem]

Another one showing too much respect for the 2nd Great One

I wish we have someone like Pantani in todays cycling , a man who just dont give a ****

 

[yaf2]

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Who heard it better? I guess its +100 kms out😳

 

[jono]

Another one showing too much respect for the 2nd Great One

Showing too much respect, or being realistic in order to achieve a better race result?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It depends on what level Pog is at but based upon his rides at SB, LBL, worlds (especially) and most other one day races he destroyed in 2024 he won't have any problem staying away. So descending Poggio and any disadvantage to better descenders/sprinters is taken out of the equation.

MSR is not an attrition race where Pogi gains "virtual" gap even when all guys ride together so when he attacks none has a chance and the gap explodes. Between Cipressa and Poggio he will spend more energy riding alone than the chasers behind and it can affect him in the finale. We will see but it's the most difficult race to win for him IMO.

 

[Poursuivant]

MSR is not an attrition race where Pogi gains "virtual" gap even when all guys ride together so when he attacks none has a chance and the gap explodes. Between Cipressa and Poggio he will spend more energy riding alone than the chasers behind and it can affect him in the finale. We will see but it's the most difficult race to win for him IMO.

I think waiting for the Poggio would be a mistake and he’s on record as saying he will try something different this year, which can only mean the Cipressa.

 

[Berniece]

2 days for the second Pogenheimer!

Hopefully the second one is more exciting than the first one

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

My expectation is that he will need to have at least one rider ahead in the break to wait for him if he gains a gap on the Cipressa. If he's alone, then I think it will be very difficult to hold off the chasers. But, of course, if UAEs are in the break, other teams will expect the attack and act accordingly.

 

[Cookster15]

MSR is not an attrition race where Pogi gains "virtual" gap even when all guys ride together so when he attacks none has a chance and the gap explodes

Agree its more difficult for Pogi to win MSR but not sure I understand your logic, why not? At the worlds he attacked 51km from the finish. Rival teams threw the kitchen sink at him and couldn't close him down despite the gap never blowing out.

MSR is nearly 300km - over 6 hours racing. So if someone attacks at the foot of Cipressa (28km to go) it certainly will become attritional. That suits Pogi more than anyone else.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Agree its more difficult for Pogi to win MSR but not sure I understand your logic, why not? At the worlds he attacked 51km from the finish. Rival teams threw the kitchen sink at him and couldn't close him down despite the gap never blowing out.

MSR is nearly 300km - over 6 hours racing. So if someone attacks at the foot of Cipressa (28km to go) it certainly will become attritional. That suits Pogi more than anyone else.

WC had a big total amount of climbing so a superior w/kg engine like him managed to stay away. But I'm not saying he can't do it if he shows his absolute peak like in the second half of the last year. Just saying that it's simply more difficult in this race. Maybe he will finally succeed this year, who knows?

 

[Froome]

Fernando Pessoa is the best writer ever. I invite everyone to read his poems. He was fluent in English too.

Fernando is not even the best portuguese writer, for gods sake.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I wish we have someone like Pantani in todays cycling , a man who just dont give a ****

Pantani was an one dimensional rider. He would be irrelevant in most classics

 

[Peyroteo94]

Fernando is not even the best portuguese writer, for gods sake.

Different opinions.

 

[Cookster15]

Pantani was an one dimensional rider. He would be irrelevant in most classics

That's a bit harsh. Sure he never seriously contested one day races but Pantani was heroic in taking down Jan Ullrich in securing the last Giro-Tour double. Still the greatest climber the sport has ever seen IMO. Remember he achieved his feats on an aluminium bike in 1998.

 

[Red Rick]

MSR is not an attrition race where Pogi gains "virtual" gap even when all guys ride together so when he attacks none has a chance and the gap explodes. Between Cipressa and Poggio he will spend more energy riding alone than the chasers behind and it can affect him in the finale. We will see but it's the most difficult race to win for him IMO.

If it explodes into small groups there is maybe a chance, but I can't even remember if that ever happened.

If the peloton stays together, they can literally just give Pogacar a minute.

That is assuming there won't be an insane moto draft in the coast section.

 

[Peyroteo94]

That's a bit harsh. Sure he never seriously contested one day races but Pantani was heroic in taking down Jan Ullrich in securing the last Giro-Tour double. Still the greatest climber the sport has ever seen IMO. Remember he achieved his feats on an aluminium bike in 1998.

Best climber is Pogacar or Vingegaard. Pantani was mythical because of his panache, charisma and ability to climb but his "death increased his aura". Just like Senna.

 

[Cookster15]

Best climber is Pogacar or Vingegaard. Pantani was mythical because of his panache, charisma and ability to climb but his "death increased his aura". Just like Senna.

Did you watch Pantani? His ability to climb was matched by the stopwatch which doesn’t lie. He was the David who beat the time trialist Goliaths Indurain and Ullrich. Sure nearly 30 years later against the stop watch Pogi and Vingo were faster at PdB but Pantani is still significantly faster at the Alpe. And that was 30 years ago using slower equipment.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Did you watch Pantani? His ability to climb was matched by the stopwatch which doesn’t lie. He was the David who beat the time trialist Goliaths Indurain and Ullrich. Sure nearly 30 years later against the stop watch Pogi and Vingo were faster at PdB but Pantani is still significantly faster at the Alpe. And that was 30 years ago using slower equipment.

Forget the slower equipment. They are way quicker than Froome for example and equipment was worse in the Froome or Contador era?
Pantani didn't win a GT against Indurain. He made him lose one, it is different (IIRC,1994 Giro). Seriously, I am/was a big fan of Ullrich but he was so sloppy, too much talent for a very small brain. Ullrich was always very prone to big craks because his preparation was always suboptimal. We are talking about a guy who was constantly gaining 5-8 kg in the off season.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Did you watch Pantani? His ability to climb was matched by the stopwatch which doesn’t lie. He was the David who beat the time trialist Goliaths Indurain and Ullrich. Sure nearly 30 years later against the stop watch Pogi and Vingo were faster at PdB but Pantani is still significantly faster at the Alpe. And that was 30 years ago using slower equipment.

Probably the best climber before the current era but I think both Pogacar and Vingegaard are in the same tier as him now.