Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[yaf2]

You can definitely have more control of the race in PR than MSR, but for Pogi specifically MSR still have gradients and here he will very often have an advantage over his closet competition. I'm fairly sure PR has never been won by a rider under 70kg if what I have been told is correct. So dropping MvdP in MSR is definitely not the same as in PR. The advantage will in some respects go the other way.

Vdp is the greatest puncheur of his generation especially in a low kilojoule day like msr its difficult to drop him where as in Roubaix you can make it an attrition race by opening the race early. At least roubaix is the hardest race of the two

 

[Peyroteo94]

He can also descend well but it's what happens on the flat section that will decide his victory or not.

He will not lose 30 seconds on the flat section. Peloton will be shattered in pieces for sure.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Well, if pog drops vdp and goes solo in msr i don't see why he wont do the same in roubaix. Winning msr is more difficult than roubaix b/c everything has to fall in place for him especially for the battle of position on start of cipressa

The problem is not him, is his team. He needs his team to be all well positioned.

 

[No Excuses]

When will he launch today?

 

[Peyroteo94]

When will he launch today?

Sante Marie but a little bit later (2 km later).

 

[kn0s]

Vdp is the greatest puncheur of his generation especially in a low kilojoule day like msr its difficult to drop him where as in Roubaix you can make it an attrition race by opening the race early. At least roubaix is the hardest race of the two

Not really seeing any particular weakness in attritional races from MvdP. But it would be an interesting dynamic for sure.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vdp is the greatest puncheur of his generation especially in a low kilojoule day like msr its difficult to drop him where as in Roubaix you can make it an attrition race by opening the race early. At least roubaix is the hardest race of the two

Since you said this, I wanna ask you who was the best puncheur between Sagan, Gilbert and Valverde.

 

[Red Rick]

Not really seeing any particular weakness in attritional races from MvdP. But it would be an interesting dynamic for sure.

He's been poor in Amstel the last years.

Basically any time there is attrition on climbs longer than 1-2 minutes he gets worse quickly.

Glasgow was 30 second uphill sprint reps - and he killed everyone by attrition. Ronde is mostly ~10 one minute reps with a few longer ones and he got popped on the 4 minute one.

If a climb gets slightly longer, he definitely gets worse with attrition

 

[Peyroteo94]

He's been poor in Amstel the last years.

Basically any time there is attrition on climbs longer than 1-2 minutes he gets worse quickly.

Glasgow was 30 second uphill sprint reps - and he killed everyone by attrition. Ronde is mostly ~10 one minute reps with a few longer ones and he got popped on the 4 minute one.

If a climb gets slightly longer, he definitely gets worse with attrition

Everything longer than 1.5 km and MVP loses his kick

 

[hayneplane]

He's been poor in Amstel the last years.

Basically any time there is attrition on climbs longer than 1-2 minutes he gets worse quickly.

Glasgow was 30 second uphill sprint reps - and he killed everyone by attrition. Ronde is mostly ~10 one minute reps with a few longer ones and he got popped on the 4 minute one.

If a climb gets slightly longer, he definitely gets worse with attrition

Stop start on the Poggio definitely suits MVDP more than a bottom to top all out TT effort which it would have to be if Pogacar had a 15-20 second gap at the foot of the Poggio.

 

[kn0s]

He's been poor in Amstel the last years.

Basically any time there is attrition on climbs longer than 1-2 minutes he gets worse quickly.

Glasgow was 30 second uphill sprint reps - and he killed everyone by attrition. Ronde is mostly ~10 one minute reps with a few longer ones and he got popped on the 4 minute one.

If a climb gets slightly longer, he definitely gets worse with attrition

We where discussing PR and my statement was towards that kind of effort. My original point was exactly to the effects of gradient in the context of a particular Pogacar advantage.

 

[Red Rick]

Stop start on the Poggio definitely suits MVDP more than a bottom to top all out TT effort which it would have to be if Pogacar had a 15-20 second gap at the foot of the Poggio.

What's this scenario? Cipressa attack with scattered chase in small groups? That seems about the worst case for MvdP.

If it's a full peloton chasing Pogacar down then Pogacar needs more than 15 seconds at the bottom. Poggio is just too flat to favor a solo rider over a peloton, unless Pogacar gets Leo van Vliet levels of assistance.

 

[hayneplane]

What's this scenario? Cipressa attack with scattered chase in small groups? That seems about the worst case for MvdP.

If it's a full peloton chasing Pogacar down then Pogacar needs more than 15 seconds at the bottom. Poggio is just too flat to favor a solo rider over a peloton, unless Pogacar gets Leo van Vliet levels of assistance.

An all or nothing Cipressa attack that leaves very few domestiques left to pace a chase. Agree that you can’t stay clear solo if the field hasn’t already been decimated significantly on the Capi and then Cipressa. If you can get it down to a composition where group 2 dynamics can kick in you have a small chance of staying clear.

 

[Berniece]

Everything longer than 1.5 km and MVP loses his kick

That’s why he was able to drop Pogacar on the Pogio?

 

[yaf2]

Since you said this, I wanna ask you who was the best puncheur between Sagan, Gilbert and Valverde.

Its sagan for me. I would have loved to see mvdp and sagan at their peak race each other in the classics.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Stop start on the Poggio definitely suits MVDP more than a bottom to top all out TT effort which it would have to be if Pogacar had a 15-20 second gap at the foot of the Poggio.

Poggio is a 3.9% climb. Even if it is raced hard, Pogacar can't drop MVP. MSR is not an attritional race which means MVP has the upperhand against Pogacar.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It is very hard to say who is the best puncheur. When we talk about "puncheur" are we talking about riders able to win in hills like 2023 Glasgow? Races like AGR with Cauberg? Or finishes in Mur de Huy? I have a hard time to classify who is the best puncheur.

 

[jono]

Poggio is a 3.9% climb. Even if it is raced hard, Pogacar can't drop MVP. MSR is not an attritional race which means MVP has the upperhand against Pogacar.

I don't think an attritional race necessarily gives the advantage to Pog (see Worlds 2023 for example). It depends on the course as well, and RVV is about the tipping point in terms of climbing where it begins to favor Pog.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't think an attritional race necessarily gives the advantage to Pog (see Worlds 2023 for example). It depends on the course as well, and RVV is about the tipping point in terms of climbing where it begins to favor Pog.

Pogacar was far from his best shape in Glasgow meanwhile MVP was in peak shape.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't know if he will win but what a rider. A true classicomano!

 

[CatchyH]

Well he's definitely not riding Roubaix after today... he was lucky to come out of it without a serious injury.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Today he learned a valuable lesson. Distance your rivals sooner than later.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Truly remarkable performance for various reasons! Chapeau!

 

[KZD]

Greatness personified!

Just hope that there are no further injures apart from those nasty cuts.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Greatness personified!

Just hope that there are no further injures apart from those nasty cuts.

Yup. He will be sore for at least 3 or 4 days