Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Armchair Cyclist]

Ending up on the front wasnt smart going into the sprint, but he did well from that position.

However, he won the sprint because he was the strongest/best in that sprint. Not really because he was "smart".

If he was able to win from the front, with the advantage of that drift to get a view, then being at the front wasn't un-smart.

But if we're not going to agree, there's little point in simply repeating the fact that we don't agree.

 

[Salvarani]

Unless the level of either one changes drastically the main problem is to get MVP out of the slipstream. Pog would probably be 5-10s faster than MVP on Cipressa in a TT but as long as MVP can just follow his wheel that's not going to happen.

He was close to drop him on Cipressa. You could see when MVDP was struggling, that he was close to dropping, and when drafting started to play out. He got back in the wheel, where he could sit down again.

They both did amazingly and Ganna as well for fighting like he did.

 

[Extinction]

If he was able to win from the front, with the advantage of that drift to get a view, then being at the front wasn't un-smart.

But if we're not going to agree, there's little point in simply repeating the fact that we don't agree.

After circa 300 kms, being at the front or not doesn't matter if you have the legs for a long sprint.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Time to rest up and prepare RVV. From what I saw today, I would be very surprised if he didn't win RVV.
His team is too good and will not let anyone to plays a tactical game with them.

 

[Fos]

Pogacar always had a overrated sprint, even Vingegaard beat him in a sprint during the Tour France, and Vingegaard is probably one of the worst sprinters in the world.

With this logic Jonas can beat Pedersen and Van Aert sprinting.

 

[Salvarani]

If he was able to win from the front, with the advantage of that drift to get a view, then being at the front wasn't un-smart.

But if we're not going to agree, there's little point in simply repeating the fact that we don't agree.

I am talking up the sprint straight-up.

It isnt smart to be on the front and it is not smart to start the sprint from 250m out.

He was the strongest/best in that sprint. Thats why he won and deservedly so. Not because he was "smart".

 

[Red Rick]

Unless the level of either one changes drastically the main problem is to get MVP out of the slipstream. Pog would probably be 5-10s faster than MVP on Cipressa in a TT but as long as MVP can just follow his wheel that's not going to happen.

Would be more than 5-10 seconds unquestionably. But drafting is just that important on Cipressa.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Would be more than 5-10 seconds unquestionably. But drafting is just that important on Cipressa.

Way more. Pogacar is a beast in shallow gradients.

 

[Extinction]

I am talking up the sprint straight-up.

It isnt smart to be on the front and it is not smart to start the sprint from 250m out.

He was the strongest/best in that sprint. Thats why he won and deservedly so.

But it is very damn smart if you know your rivals think you want a short sprint, because that's where MvDP excels, to then go long. He knew he would win by opening up the sprint from the front. He wasn't stupid.

 

[Peyroteo94]

His time in Cipressa was 8'46". One day, he will be under 8'30"

 

[Salvarani]

But it is very damn smart if you know your rivals think you want a short sprint, because that's where MvDP excels, to then go long. He knew he would win by opening up the sprint from the front. He wasn't stupid.

He didnt have a choice to wait here though, so I cant say it or view it as smart. Nor that it was stupid, nobody has claimed that either. Just that he was insanely great today and performance worthy of a real champion like he is.

Pogs attempt made him having to start the sprint. He then won because he was the strongest/best and didnt let the others get close to him.

 

[Extinction]

He didnt have a choice to wait here though, so I cant say it or view it as smart. Nor that is is stupid, nobody has claimed that either. Just that he was insanely great today and performance worthy of a real champion like he is.

Pogs attempt made him having to start the sprint. He then won because he was the strongest/best and didnt let the others get close to him.

Actually, I think he played it quite smart. He knew Pog's legs were cooked from all his insane attacking and indeed countered him at the top of the Poggio. You don't do that if you are on the limit. Pippo was dropped so, even coming back on heroically as he did, MVDP in his mind, I believe, thought to himself: "I can go long from the front and they won't be able to come around me", which is, after all, the most garaunteed way not to lose. It's only dumb if you didn't have the legs he had.

 

[Salvarani]

Actually, I think he played it quite smart. He knew Pog's legs were cooked from all his insane attacking and indeed countered him at the top of the Poggio. You don't do that if you are on the limit. Pippo was dropped so, even coming back on heroically as he did, MVDP in his mind, I believe, thought to himself: "I can go long from the front and they won't be able to come around me", which is, after all, the most garaunteed way to not lose. It's only dumb if you didn't have the legs he had.

I think he played it well, but not smart in just talking about the sprint.

He wasnt the one starting the sprint from far out, which he had to have done to be able to give him that credit. He reacted to Pog, which made it a long sprint and was the strongest/best. It didnt matter.

 

[Jack_89]

Next year plan's ready : hard pace on Berta +1 more man to help Wellens and Narvaez.

 

[Extinction]

I think he played it well, but not smart in just talking about the sprint.

He wasnt the one starting the sprint from far out, which he had to have done to be able to give him that credit. He reacted to Pog, which made it a long sprint and was the strongest/best. It didnt matter.

Ah, but as it is so often said, the MSR sprint is no ordinary sprint. If you know you have the legs to outpower them in a long sprint, as he certainly did, when they are almost dead, then going from the front actually makes sense.

 

[Salvarani]

Next year plan's ready : hard pace on Berta +1 more man to help Wellens and Narvaez.

They could be in trouble on the flat section between Berta and Cipressa, but who knows.

 

[Salvarani]

Ah, but as it is so often said, the MSR sprint is no ordinary sprint. If you know you have the legs to outpower them in a long sprint, as he certainly did, when they are almost dead, then going from the front actually makes sense.

So he won because he was the strongest/best in this sprint. Not because he was smart.

And as he wasnt the one starting the sprint, he reacted, he wasnt being smart.

He was just the best/strongest in the sprint... which you often have to be at the end of a race like this... when it was raced in this way.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Next year plan's ready : hard pace on Berta +1 more man to help Wellens and Narvaez.

Yup, he figured it out. Hard pace on Berta with one climber (Del Toro) to tire the peloton and then Vermeersch and Politt to lead Wellens, Narvaez and Pogacar.
Narvaez was a beast today!

 

[Peyroteo94]

Actually, I think he played it quite smart. He knew Pog's legs were cooked from all his insane attacking and indeed countered him at the top of the Poggio. You don't do that if you are on the limit. Pippo was dropped so, even coming back on heroically as he did, MVDP in his mind, I believe, thought to himself: "I can go long from the front and they won't be able to come around me", which is, after all, the most garaunteed way to not lose. It's only dumb if you didn't have the legs he had.

He was on the limit, this is why his attack was not able to drop Pogacar and maitain the gap for more than 2 seconds.

 

[Salvarani]

Yup, he figured it out. Hard pace on Berta with one climber (Del Toro) to tire the peloton and then Vermeersch and Politt to lead Wellens, Narvaez and Pogacar.
Narvaez was a beast today!

But how will guys like Politt and the others deal with a hard pace from Del Toro there? I just dont see it as of now... how it would be beneficial.

You risk losing a couple of guys and then maybe Wellens has to work on the flat section already.

 

[Sciatic]

MSR is only great because of Pogi and other people are trying to convince me, it is great no matter what... dellusional

That wasn't your argument: your argument was that it's only 15 min of excitement. That hasn't been the case for many years prior to Pog's arrival. If you're going to complain couldn't you at least keep it consistent?

 

[Monsi]

But how will guys like Politt and the others deal with a hard pace from Del Toro there? I just dont see it as of now... how it would be beneficial.

You risk losing a couple of guys and then maybe Wellens has to work on the flat section already.

Probably need one more good leadout before Narvaez takes over. If they nuke Berta (which they should), I think Wellens will have to takeover on the flat to keep the pace going.

 

[Salvarani]

Probably need one more good leadout before Narvaez takes over. If they nuke Berta (which they should), I think Wellens will have to takeover on the flat to keep the pace going.

Maybe Christen or Morgado could do Wellens part, that he did today, in the future. They are inexperienced, as of now, though.

 

[Sciatic]

He started his sprint in the perfect moment. Ganna wasn't ready. Pog was too far behind trying to come out of Ganna's slipstream.
In my opinion that doesn't change the outcome. It was a smart sprint. And looking at the gap he created also a really strong sprint. Produced by far the best numbers.

Agreed. in addition MVDP has such snap in those 1st few pedal strokes, so that plus Ganna having to cross the road to get on his wheel sealed the deal.

 

[Peyroteo94]

But how will guys like Politt and the others deal with a hard pace from Del Toro there? I just dont see it as of now... how it would be beneficial.

You risk losing a couple of guys and then maybe Wellens has to work on the flat section already.

I don't believe Del Toro can drop in 1.8 km Politt and Vermeersch.