Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Miss Violet Smith]

View: https://youtu.be/vWGdo-8jd7k?feature=shared


While I'm usually not a fan of team retrospectives ( sportswashing galore), I liked the tactics discussion around 3:20, even if staged.

Pogačar perfectly polite, but firm.

 

[Salvarani]

Like I said he isn’t a bad sprinter but he is actually less punchy than he used to be. You can tell by how he has been attacking, a lot more seated long attacks. He is still the best sprinter on a long hilly stage race because of his endurance.

He’s also much leaner this year for the classics than he was in 23.

Ok, I dont see it that way.

 

[Mina.S]

Ok, I dont see it that way.

Most people who know more than me (ie team consultant and strategists) seem to think this is exactly what he has done so I trust them.

 

[Salvarani]

Most people who know more than me (ie team consultant and strategists) seem to think this is exactly what he has done so I trust them.

Cool.

 

[rafa92]

pog today was at an event organized by beking and he was riding a bike I have never seen before, it might be due to the different paint job and so I might be completely wrong but to me it looks different from v4rs. It's clearly not an y1rs because the handlebars are traditional, not with that y shape. If you want to have a look at the bike check the instagram stories of beking events. I was expecting v5rs to come out in 2026 but pog might be using a protopipo version just like he did in 2022 when v4rs was not officially out yet but pog was already using the bike starting from may 2022. It would be time fo finally have an update for his all around bike, but again I migth be totally wrong, check the photos and tell what you think

https://www.bicidastrada.it/pogacar-usa-una-nuova-colnago-dopo-la-sanremo/ it seems like I was right, pog is trying a bike that could be the v5rs

 

[Peyroteo94]

Like I said he isn’t a bad sprinter but he is actually less punchy than he used to be. You can tell by how he has been attacking, a lot more seated long attacks. He is still the best sprinter on a long hilly stage race because of his endurance.

He’s also much leaner this year for the classics than he was in 23.

How do you know this?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Most people who know more than me (ie team consultant and strategists) seem to think this is exactly what he has done so I trust them.

I don't see his lack of explosivity.

 

[rafa92]

I don't see his lack of explosivity.

Me neither, he's as explosive as he has ever been, on cipressa in the first attack he reached 50 km/h on a 4% gradient. Another impressive stats, apart from the record on cipressa. is that he was able to set the fastest time in the first 1.8 km of poggio (from strava). In this 1.8 km he was 3 sec faster than the previous record (from 2024) while having to pull the entire segment in front. Also the overall time on poggio is impressive: 5.45, only 14 sec slower than the record of 2024, while pulling from the bottom for basically 95% of the 3.7 kms. Rewatching the last 30 kms you can see how basically mvdp used pog and ganna as domestiques. I say also ganna because in the most explosive effort of pog, the first attack on cipressa, vdp didn't pull for a sec, he let ganna do all the work and avoided a monster 45 sec effort. I rewatched that portion, ganna followed pog with vdp in his wheel for exactly 45 sec, then clearly ganna exploded and vdp after having benefitted from that huge draft was able to stay with pog. After that vdp continued to stay in the wheel while pog was basically riding always in front on the poggio to avoid ganna coming back. And this is the only mistake pog made, riding against ganna and not realizing that the only problem was vdp. Especially after poggio, pog should not have pulled for a single meter, let ganna come back and put the entire pressure on vdp, trying to play a tactical game

 

[jono]

MVD

Me neither, he's as explosive as he has ever been, on cipressa in the first attack he reached 50 km/h on a 4% gradient. Another impressive stats, apart from the record on cipressa. is that he was able to set the fastest time in the first 1.8 km of poggio (from strava). In this 1.8 km he was 3 sec faster than the previous record (from 2024) while having to pull the entire segment in front. Also the overall time on poggio is impressive: 5.45, only 14 sec slower than the record of 2024, while pulling from the bottom for basically 95% of the 3.7 kms. Rewatching the last 30 kms you can see how basically mvdp used pog and ganna as domestiques. I say also ganna because in the most explosive effort of pog, the first attack on cipressa, vdp didn't pull for a sec, he let ganna do all the work and avoided a monster 45 sec effort. I rewatched that portion, ganna followed pog with vdp in his wheel for exactly 45 sec, then clearly ganna exploded and vdp after having benefitted from that huge draft was able to stay with pog. After that vdp continued to stay in the wheel while pog was basically riding always in front on the poggio to avoid ganna coming back. And this is the only mistake pog made, riding against ganna and not realizing that the only problem was vdp. Especially after poggio, pog should not have pulled for a single meter, let ganna come back and put the entire pressure on vdp, tryng to play a tactical game

That's a whole lot of text to say that MVDP is the smarter racer.

 

[rafa92]

MVD

That's a whole lot of text to say that MVDP is the smarter racer.

Well I like to support my arguments, and I wouldn't say that MVDP is the smarter racer, I would say that everything is a lot easier when you have a better sprint, the only tactic you need is to follow a wheel. I guarantee you that if pog was the stronger sprinter between the two, he would look a lot smarter since he would be winning every single race in which they both take part

 

[Netserk]

After that vdp continued to stay in the wheel while pog was basically riding always in front on the poggio to avoid ganna coming back.

After that, Van der Poel comes through and takes a pull on the Cipressa, but as he grabs a bottle, Pogi immediately attacks him again. Why would you take a pull again after that when you know he will attack you?

 

[scribers]

After that, Van der Poel comes through and takes a pull on the Cipressa, but as he grabs a bottle, Pogi immediately attacks him again. Why would you take a pull again after that when you know he will attack you?

Because you don’t want to fend off attacks from the group of 40 behind for the win?

 

[Netserk]

Because you don’t want to fend off attacks from the group of 40 behind for the win?

That was a moot threat when they started Poggio.

 

[scribers]

So you’re saying he would pull if pogi had shut’er down?

Are we entering the Viking vortex here??

 

[Netserk]

So you’re saying he would pull if pogi had shut’er down?

Are we entering the Viking vortex here??

Did you read the post I responded to? At least one of us seem to be on the wrong track.

Yes, I think that he would pull with Ganna if Pogi waited for him to return after his failed attack on Poggio. But he wouldn't need to do any hard pulls to keep the peloton behind them.

 

[scribers]

He would pull with ganna because of a water bottle?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Did you read the post I responded to? At least one of us seem to be on the wrong track.

Yes, I think that he would pull with Ganna if Pogi waited for him to return after his failed attack on Poggio. But he wouldn't need to do any hard pulls to keep the peloton behind them.

Yup, the situation was tactically pretty clear for MVP: just stay with Pogi on Poggio and beat him in the sprint. The gap over the peleton was comfortable enough at that stage. They cooperated on the flat well to preserve it.

 

[Unchained]

Yup, the situation was tactically pretty clear for MVP: just stay with Pogi on Poggio and beat him in the sprint. The gap over the peleton was comfortable enough at that stage. They cooperated on the flat well to preserve it.

Strange to me that people think race and racers at MSR were harder than they actually were..
On flats parity with Pogacar is obvious. Pog could get up and jump, simply ride MVP and Ganna off his wheel with overwhelming power and speed. He tried..
Where was he to play his hand? Going uphill..
He did repeatedly and to his disgust, he got out of the saddle went very hard and even his best attacks didn't yield much.. and someone forgot to tell Ganna that the little gap created from the battle of 3 was the end. It wasn't MVP and Pogacar's best effort wasn't enough to keep Ganna from recovering, to the point were he was able to muster a decent sprint.
Pog rode a good race, made high percentage moves that on other days work, but in this mix, MVP, Ganna and Poggio didn't work. Certainly no massive misses.. He gave it his best shot, got beat by better riders that day.

 

[scribers]

I am going to be an outlier here and the top two places owe their podium spots to pogi, full stop. It was at least as much about tactics, in particular dismal team tactics by UAE management, than it was about strength of prevailing riders. Pogi made the payments that MVP and Ganna profited from. Now we gotta read about water bottle attacks explainers.

 

[kn0s]

I am going to be an outlier here and the top two places owe their podium spots to pogi, full stop. It was at least as much about tactics, in particular dismal team tactics by UAE management, than it was about strength of prevailing riders. Pogi made the payments that MVP and Ganna profited from. Now we gotta read about water bottle attacks explainers.

Don't think MvdP owe pogi the win here. Without him he goes over the top of the Poggio and wins anyway.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's easy to race against Pogacar (on paper). Just wait for his attack and give everything you had to keep his pace. Races are very predictable with Pogacar, everyone knows when and where he will attack.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Don't think MvdP owe pogi the win here. Without him he goes over the top of the Poggio and wins anyway.

Lol. And where would MVP gain time to the peloton in Cipressa?

 

[kn0s]

Lol. And where would MVP gain time to the peloton in Cipressa?

What? Why would MvdP need time on Cipressa? Pogi needed that. The statement was the MvdP and Ganna got there 1-2 because of pogi. I said the in my mind MvdP would win no problem without pogi in the race.

 

[Peyroteo94]

What? Why would MvdP need time on Cipressa? Pogi needed that. The statement was the MvdP and Ganna got there 1-2 because of pogi. I said the in my mind MvdP would win no problem without pogi in the race.

MVP can't drop everyone in the Poggio. In 2023, he took advantage of Pogacar's attack.

 

[kn0s]

MVP can't drop everyone in the Poggio. In 2023, he took advantage of Pogacar's attack.

Hard disagree.