Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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It’s a question of riding E3, GW, FVV, and P-R. And have the necessary lead out support necessary to ensure he can possibly win all four. And not creating a bus full of bitches too bitter to ride GTs too
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The problem is everyone wants a leadership but no one can really win big races. So it is unfair to Pogi too. Pogi could win all 3 Gts last year but one of the reasons he mentioned was that he needs to leave his domestiques shine too. What was the result? A truly disgrace in the Vuelta. This year, I believe the same will happen in the Giro. Ayuso is firing in all cylinders but last year he was very good too in March (and April).
 
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Pogacsa

Oct 21, 2024
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The plan was for Wellens, Narvaes and Del Toro to be the lead out on the Cipressa. Del Toro get caught up in the washing machine of the final approach (and no team got more than a couple of riders in the train). Laengen and Novak and Pollitt were there for the previous 260 km but weren't needed overly.

We can fantasise about Pogi getting a 5 man lead out, but given the overall strenght of the peloton, it is not realistic.
 
scribers

scribers

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Pogacsa said:
The plan was for Wellens, Narvaes and Del Toro to be the lead out on the Cipressa. Del Toro get caught up in the washing machine of the final approach (and no team got more than a couple of riders in the train). Laengen and Novak and Pollitt were there for the previous 260 km but weren't needed overly.

We can fantasise about Pogi getting a 5 man lead out, but given the overall strenght of the peloton, it is not realistic.
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Just look at the postion of Ganna and MVP and look at the results. If Pogi comes into the foot of the cipressa in those postions it is game over this year. If Pogi had come in a better position last year he would have found himself alone by the top of the Cipressa with a substantial lead on a small chase group and we know exactly how he would have handled it with likely results.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Just look at the postion of Ganna and MVP and look at the results. If Pogi comes into the foot of the cipressa in those postions it is game over this year. If Pogi had come in a better position last year he would have found himself alone by the top of the Cipressa with a substantial lead on a small chase group and we know exactly how he would have handled it with likely results.
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The problem wasn't Pogacar, it was Del Toro.
 
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scribers

scribers

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Peyroteo94 said:
The problem wasn't Pogacar, it was Del Toro.
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I don't even think the problem was Del Toro. Del Toro did what he could was to stay on the main chase group in case it closed on the front group. If pogi had turned to MVP after the Cipressa and said "I am not going a sprint with you because I can't win that. You enjoy the profit from my effort on the Cipressa and pull us and/or close coming attacks from the chase AND sprint against the chase". Pogi then would have had Del Toro to assist in attacking an MVP who had nose to the wind up until the poggio.

Wellens did an amazing job. He somehow came out of the bottleneck perfectly positioned and forced pressure on the field. He needed binoculars to find Pogi.

Narvaev did an amazing job dragging pogi out of the bottleneck and then shredding the field to launch pogi.

Problem here and always seems to be with team managment. Did not provide the necessary resources in tactics, personnel, and preparation. The team that showed up did what was expected of them and that's why it failed. Mou was telling us it was going to fail and he was right (again). He even told us why it was designed to fail. UAE does not value monuments. They want Pogi to win the tour principly and will sabotage everything else to ensure it is properly attended to by Pogi.
 
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YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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The team that showed up did what was expected of them and that's why it failed. Mou was telling us it was going to fail and he was right (again). He even told us why it was designed to fail. UAE does not value monuments. They want Pogi to win the tour principly and will sabotage everything else to ensure it is properly attended to by Pogi.
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Sorry but all that doesn't make sense. In what way the team benefits if Pogacar doesn't win San Remo?
It's actually the other way around. The team would benefit much more if Pogacar wins San Remo as if he doesn't win it, he'll come back next year with probably even bigger determination to win it, thus risking the Tour even more. Let alone that, I guess Pogacar isn't stupid (is he?), and if you and Mou can see his team trying to mess him up, he can see it as well, and if this is true he won't be too happy.

Care to explain, as you seem to be familiar with the UAE management, how does the team benefits when they make their star unhappy?


All of that is really common sense, but y'all seem to follow Mou rather than the common sense.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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I don't even think the problem was Del Toro. Del Toro did what he could was to stay on the main chase group in case it closed on the front group. If pogi had turned to MVP after the Cipressa and said "I am not going a sprint with you because I can't win that. You enjoy the profit from my effort on the Cipressa and pull us and/or close coming attacks from the chase AND sprint against the chase". Pogi then would have had Del Toro to assist in attacking an MVP who had nose to the wind up until the poggio.

Wellens did an amazing job. He somehow came out of the bottleneck perfectly positioned and forced pressure on the field. He needed binoculars to find Pogi.

Narvaev did an amazing job dragging pogi out of the bottleneck and then shredding the field to launch pogi.

Problem here and always seems to be with team managment. Did not provide the necessary resources in tactics, personnel, and preparation. The team that showed up did what was expected of them and that's why it failed. Mou was telling us it was going to fail and he was right (again). He even told us why it was designed to fail. UAE does not value monuments. They want Pogi to win the tour principly and will sabotage everything else to ensure it is properly attended to by Pogi.
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Pogi always raced what he wanted. The problem with UAE is how they manage their riders, specially guys like Narvaez, Vermeersch. They promised leadership in classics to these guys. Not monuments but races like E3, AGR, Omloop, etc
 
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scribers

scribers

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Kinda. But if you look at Narvaez, He rode great for pogi at this MSR. I can understand if he doesn't want to do this 100% of the time. Although there is a place in history for 1st lieutenants in what is unfolding in front of us.

Vermeersch rode for a top 10 result just days earlier at a much lesser race. Is that better than contributing to an MSR victory? A lot of folks said he would have been perfect in the positioning train.
 
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scribers

scribers

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YavorD said:
Sorry but all that doesn't make sense. In what way the team benefits if Pogacar doesn't win San Remo?
It's actually the other way around. The team would benefit much more if Pogacar wins San Remo as if he doesn't win it, he'll come back next year with probably even bigger determination to win it, thus risking the Tour even more. Let alone that, I guess Pogacar isn't stupid (is he?), and if you and Mou can see his team trying to mess him up, he can see it as well, and if this is true he won't be too happy.

Care to explain, as you seem to be familiar with the UAE management, how does the team benefits when they make their star unhappy?


All of that is really common sense, but y'all seem to follow Mou rather than the common sense.
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They don't benefit. They are poorly managed and the consequences of this are for all to see. The solution is a change in management, one way or the other.
 
scribers

scribers

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YavorD said:
So why would they sabotage him, as you claimed, if they don't benefit?

Seems like the forum isn't just full of doctors now, but conspiracy theorists as well.
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Look at INEOS team and compare to UAE for this race. Not giving Pogi the tools to succeed is sabotage. But then again, maybe the tools weren't available because management is promising strong riders leadership in all parts of the calendar. Poor management. Both things can be true at the same time.

There is a video floating around where pogi is describing in a team meeting where he wants to attack on the cipressa. Of course, the conversations about the lead up to the cipressa are missing. Probably because it was so ridiculous and embarrassing to management.
 
YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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Look at INEOS team and compare to UAE for this race. Not giving Pogi the tools to succeed is sabotage. But then again, maybe the tools weren't available because management is promising strong riders leadership in all parts of the calendar. Poor management. Both things can be true at the same time.

There is a video floating around where pogi is describing in a team meeting where he wants to attack on the cipressa. Of course, the conversations about the lead up to the cipressa are missing. Probably because it was so ridiculous and embarrassing to management.
Click to expand...


Ineos' team (and any other for that matter) isn't built with the purpose to destroy Cipressa, so your comparasion isn't exactly right. With 2 riders for the first 250 kilometres and 3 riders (Del Toro, Narvaez and Wellens) to destroy Cipressa there aren't exactly many riders left to help with positioning.
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Pogacsa said:
The plan was for Wellens, Narvaes and Del Toro to be the lead out on the Cipressa. Del Toro get caught up in the washing machine of the final approach (and no team got more than a couple of riders in the train). Laengen and Novak and Pollitt were there for the previous 260 km but weren't needed overly.

We can fantasise about Pogi getting a 5 man lead out, but given the overall strenght of the peloton, it is not realistic.
Click to expand...
EF entered Cipressa with Honoré (2nd), Albanese (6th), Mihkels (12th), Sweeny (16th) and Powless (35th) before Pogi (42nd) and Narváez (51st).
 
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scribers

scribers

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Let me type this slowly so that folks can comprehend it.

Ganna and MVP were well positioned at the base of the climb. This is because of their teams.

Because Pogi was not well positioned, also because of his team, it allowed Ganna and MVP to react to the intial attack Pogi.

Pogi wasted energy coming from so far back. His team wasted energy too and was ineffective.

Ganna and MVP took 1st and 2nd in the race because of this precise moment in the race in addition to their general fitness and condition (they were both leaders of their excellent squads)
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Heston said:
The expectations for UAE seem a bit unrealistically high. Wellens and Narvaez did a great job on Cipressa and you cannot expect much more than that. You're not gonna get a prime Sky mountain train with 7 riders on Cipressa.
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But it is unacceptable when your team is nowhere near the front while Ineos and other teams had 3 or 4 riders in the front.
 
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