Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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James M said:
Last topic I’m replying to you—there’s no point. But it’s Roubaix weekend, so let’s keep the vibes happy! Not once have I disrespected MvdP. Im as big a fan of MvdP as I am of Pogacar(and everyone else who should become that great, I just prefer greatness). Show me one time where I disrespected MvdP here? by saying A isn’t hard and doesn’t necessarily mean B, why do you jump to that conclusion?

It’s very obvious that MvdP has never ridden the bergs faster than he did this edition—in fact, he did it several times, natuarly that takes its toll even on a champion like MvdP. But at the same time, you’re saying he wasn’t at his best? And yet, expect me to take you seriously? If anything, MvdP deserves nothing but praise. He rode brilliantly, and I’ve given him credit all along for the true champion he is. It really isnt hard to admit one rider is better than the other.
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You should do like me and click the magical button.
But I fully agree with your post. Without Pogacar, MVP would win RVV easily since he was dropping the rest wherever he wanted.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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James M said:
Last topic I’m replying to you—there’s no point. But it’s Roubaix weekend, so let’s keep the vibes happy! Not once have I disrespected MvdP. Im as big a fan of MvdP as I am of Pogacar(and everyone else who should become that great, I just prefer greatness). Show me one time where I disrespected MvdP here? by saying A isn’t hard and doesn’t necessarily mean B, why do you jump to that conclusion?

It’s very obvious that MvdP has never ridden the bergs faster than he did this edition—in fact, he did it several times, natuarly that takes its toll even on a champion like MvdP. But at the same time, you’re saying he wasn’t at his best? And yet, expect me to take you seriously? If anything, MvdP deserves nothing but praise. He rode brilliantly, and I’ve given him credit all along for the true champion he is. It really isnt hard to admit one rider is better than the other.
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Where did I say you disrespected MVDP? I’m indeed saying he wasn’t at his best, because he was sick the week before and even still after. He had a crash. And he finished together with Stuyven. Not so hard to see that he wasn’t as good as he could’ve been.
 
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JoãoRamos

JoãoRamos

Mar 28, 2025
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James M said:
Last topic I’m replying to you—there’s no point. But it’s Roubaix weekend, so let’s keep the vibes happy! Not once have I disrespected MvdP. Im as big a fan of MvdP as I am of Pogacar(and everyone else who should become that great, I just prefer greatness). Show me one time where I disrespected MvdP here? by saying A isn’t hard and doesn’t necessarily mean B, why do you jump to that conclusion?

It’s very obvious that MvdP has never ridden the bergs faster than he did this edition—in fact, he did it several times, natuarly that takes its toll even on a champion like MvdP. But at the same time, you’re saying he wasn’t at his best? And yet, expect me to take you seriously? If anything, MvdP deserves nothing but praise. He rode brilliantly, and I’ve given him credit all along for the true champion he is. It really isnt hard to admit one rider is better than the other.
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What I observe from Van der Poel himself, his family, and his team leadership, is a consistent effort to downplay Pogacar’s victory. These are comments that, frankly, don’t need to be made.

In his post-Ronde van Vlaanderen interview, Van der Poel brought up his illness—something he didn’t necessarily need to mention. He continues to state in interviews: “I felt really under the weather. I ended up on antibiotics, and during Flanders, I still wasn't at 100%.”

His parents have commented on the crash, suggesting that if it hadn’t happened, Van der Poel would have won. And immediately after the race, Alpecin-Deceuninck’s head DS, Christoph Roodhooft, also came out with excuses.

While it’s fair to acknowledge challenges, repeatedly bringing them up comes across as diminishing the achievement of another rider. Pogacar’s win was brilliant and deserved to be celebrated on its own merit.
 
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James M

James M

Jun 17, 2024
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Berniece said:
Where did I say you disrespected MVDP? I’m indeed saying he wasn’t at his best, because he was sick the week before and even still after. He had a crash. And he finished together with Stuyven. Not so hard to see that he wasn’t as good as he could’ve been.
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Maybe I would take it more seriously if there wasn’t a long-running pattern here. I’m sure you know what I mean. And I’ve also never said that MvdP maybe couldn’t have been slightly better have I —even here, you’re jumping to a conclusion. Just as A doesn’t always mean B in one case, it’s the same here. I said he never ridden bergs better in any edtion which evidently again from his numbers are just objectively correct and naturally riding so many KOM's berg as he did takes a toll, no? from a objectively standpoint?

But as I said before the race, it doesn’t matter. It has nothing to do with MvdP or how great he is. How do you expect him to deal with this? Pogacar averaged 50 km/h from the Paterberg to Oudenaarde like it was nothing, after prior setting 6-7 relentless ridicilous times. You don’t need to be a die-hard fan of anything to acknowledge that reality.

Even if you disguise your opinions as only die-hard Pogacar fans being able to claim he’s the best level weve ever seen from a cyclist ever or the strongest in RVV at his current level, it isnt. It’s common sense! And by saying this, it’s nothing against MvdP—he’s an all-time great himself. By your logic when I say MvdP is the favorite for Roubaix should Pogacar fans jump at me and claim im pissing on him ?
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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James M said:
Maybe I would take it more seriously if there wasn’t a long-running pattern here. I’m sure you know what I mean. And I’ve also never said that MvdP maybe couldn’t have been slightly better have I —even here, you’re jumping to a conclusion. Just as A doesn’t always mean B in one case, it’s the same here. I said he never ridden bergs better in any edtion which evidently again from his numbers are just objectively correct and naturally riding so many KOM's berg as he did takes a toll, no? from a objectively standpoint?

But as I said before the race, it doesn’t matter. It has nothing to do with MvdP or how great he is. How do you expect him to deal with this? Pogacar averaged 50 km/h from the Paterberg to Oudenaarde like it was nothing, after prior setting 6-7 relentless ridicilous times. You don’t need to be a die-hard fan of anything to acknowledge that reality.

Even if you disguise your opinions as only die-hard Pogacar fans being able to claim he’s the best level weve ever seen from a cyclist ever or the strongest in RVV at his current level, it isnt. It’s common sense! And by saying this, it’s nothing against MvdP—he’s an all-time great himself. By your logic when I say MvdP is the favorite for Roubaix should Pogacar fans jump at me and claim im pissing on him ?
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I agree with most of what you are saying, my problem is with this:

“MvdP is awesome, but this Pogacar is just a different level even in RVV.”

The uniqueness of Pogacar and why he is one of the best riders ever, is because he is one of the best in every terrain, but imo not necessarily the best in all terrains. Here you are saying MVDP isn’t at Pogacar’s level, while I believe he is. He wasn’t able to show this due to crash and illness. Just like I believe Vingegaard is at Pogacar’s level in GT’s just not last year due to bad prep.

Pogacar is the best of his generation because he does it all, I just don’t agree with the narrative that he’s the best at everything.
 
James M

James M

Jun 17, 2024
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Berniece said:
“MvdP is awesome, but this Pogacar is just a different level even in RVV.”
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You’re wrong again, but I don’t care anymore—who cares. Just enjoy it however you like. Do you. He’s not the best at sprinting; heaps of riders are better. And in TT, Remco—who already possesses some greatness overall and has a technique that’s nothing short of a work of art—is the king of the hill, along with a few others who are also better. See, saying A doesn’t need to mean B—it’s not hard.

The numbers speak for themselves—they’re not partial, and it isn’t even close, no matter how big of a fan I am of MvdP as well. Undermining the reality of these numbers—an outlier of this current version of Pogacar—just doesn’t hold up. Disguising it as though only Pogacar fans are allowed to state these simple facts is honestly quite strange. Do I need to say more? It also completely contradicts your initial objection.

The guy is unreal—not because I say so, but because the numbers make it undeniably obvious. And it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone—at least, in my opinion.
It’s crazy town numbers. It takes an incredible amount of wishful thinking to cook up any other scenario objectively. As for the mountains? They’re not even worth debating objectively. It’s fine to disagree, do you champ whatever makes you happy.—now let’s enjoy Roubaix weekend and keep the vibes happy!
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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James M said:
You’re wrong again, but I don’t care anymore—who cares. Just enjoy it however you like. Do you. He’s not the best at sprinting; heaps of riders are better. And in TT, Remco—who already possesses incredible greatness overall and has a technique that’s nothing short of a work of art—is the king of the hill, along with a few others who are also better. See, saying A doesn’t need to mean B—it’s not hard.

The numbers speak for themselves—they’re not partial, and it isn’t even close, no matter how big of a fan I am of MvdP as well. Undermining the reality of these numbers—an outlier of this current version of Pogacar—just doesn’t hold up. Disguising it as though only Pogacar fans are allowed to state these simple facts is honestly quite strange. Do I need to say more? It also completely contradicts your initial objection.

The guy is unreal—not because I say so, but because the numbers make it undeniably obvious. And it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone—at least, in my opinion.
It’s crazy town numbers. It takes an incredible amount of wishful thinking to cook up any other scenario objectively. As for the mountains? They’re not even worth debating objectively. It’s fine to disagree, do you champ whatever makes you happy.—now let’s enjoy Roubaix weekend and keep the vibes happy!
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Not sure what all of that has to do with MVDP being sick after E3 and that he crashed during RVV.
 
James M

James M

Jun 17, 2024
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Berniece said:
Not sure what all of that has to do with MVDP being sick after E3 and that he crashed during RVV.
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I just replied to your comment. Me neither, and once again for the record never implied he couldnt be maybe slightly better who knows. wouldnt change anything.

As for the initial reply, you’re disguising the idea that you have to be a Pogacar fan to state the mere obvious based on simple facts, which is already, well, questionable. Simultaneously implying that MvdP was at the same level as Stuyven in RVV, I hope you see the irony. btw which is like reading the title of a book and nothing else—and yet, you expect me to take you seriously, Now moving on, enjoy champ, happy roubaix weekend. Happy times.
 
JoãoRamos

JoãoRamos

Mar 28, 2025
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Salvarani said:
That is just amazing.
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It will be quite something if Pog wins tomorrow and we once again hear from VDP, his team, his family, etc., that it's because he’s still not fully recovered from the flu he supposedly caught during MSR.
Yes, he already stated he got it there.

At this point, it’s starting to sound like the most persistent flu in cycling history. The GOAT of all flus, perhaps.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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Cookster15

Cookster15

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Berniece said:
The uniqueness of Pogacar and why he is one of the best riders ever, is because he is one of the best in every terrain, but imo not necessarily the best in all terrains. Here you are saying MVDP isn’t at Pogacar’s level, while I believe he is. He wasn’t able to show this due to crash and illness. Just like I believe Vingegaard is at Pogacar’s level in GT’s just not last year due to bad prep.

Pogacar is the best of his generation because he does it all, I just don’t agree with the narrative that he’s the best at everything.
Click to expand...

As has now been pointed out ad nauseam, in the 2024 Tour data shows Vingegaard climbed the best we have ever seen him at PdB at the start of the 3rd week. So better than he climbed at Granon in the 2022 Tour and better than on Loze in the 2023 Tour. In the final Nice TT he still came second after three weeks of racing and even beat Remco. Not bad for bad prep?

You can mount an argument bad prep started costing Vingegaard on the last three stages. But with normal prep I don't see him closing the enormous gap - he would still be below Pogacar's new level in GTs. It means with good prep Vingegaard would still have lost the Tour by maybe 3 minutes instead of 6.
 
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Froome

Froome

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Cookster15 said:
As has now been pointed out ad nauseam, in the 2024 Tour data shows Vingegaard climbed the best we have ever seen him at PdB at the start of the 3rd week. So better than he climbed at Granon in the 2022 Tour and better than on Loze in the 2023 Tour. In the final Nice TT he still came second after three weeks of racing and even beat Remco. Not bad for bad prep?

You can mount an argument bad prep started costing Vingegaard on the last three stages. But with normal prep I don't see him closing the enormous gap - he would still be below Pogacar's new level in GTs. It means with good prep Vingegaard would still have lost the Tour by maybe 3 minutes instead of 6.
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Pogacar was also climbing his best performances ever in the Tour 2023.
 
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