Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Cycling111]

I can't agree with you. Maybe I didn't express my opinion well but I was referring to monuments/WC when I talk about classics. If you compare his performances in Emilia and then his performances in GdL, we can see how his level drops after 5 hours of racing. We saw the same in FW/LBL 2021. His performance in Tokyo was also very weak in the RR and then he was doing his best TT performance of his life.
Maybe I'm wrong but I no longer have expectations with Roglic when we talk about monuments/WC. His LBL was really an outlier (he had other decent performances but never close to win).

I think the same. Roglic always had a weakness in races over 250 km, and it's become more pronounced with age.

If it weren't for Alaphilippe's maneuver, that Liège would have been a sprint between Pogacar and Hirschi.
Considering how young they were and that Pogacar had won the Tour very young and could be more tired due to lack of experience.
The incredible thing is that he has the same Monuments as Van Aert; that day he had all the luck that Van Aert didn't have in Roubaix 2023.

At no other time he´s been so close to winning a classic of more than 250km.
Only for Lombardia 2023 has he been a favorite for such a long race.

In 2023, Pogacar arrived worse than even to Lombardia, and Roglic arrived to Lombardia better than ever. He looked to strong in previous italian classics. But once again, in a longer race like Lombardia, he showed the weaknesses he hadn't seen in the previous Italian Classics.

Lombardia 2023 is the exapmple of what Pogacar and Roglic are like in long-distance Classics. One arrived worse than ever, and Roglic better dan ever. But in the final part, with the accumulated mileage, Roglic's strength failed him.
The result was again the same because Pogacar compensates for the long distance better, and Roglic doesn't.

This seems to be Vingegaard's problem in one-day races.
He doesn't seem to be able to assimilate a long effort in a single day.

Although Vingegaard isn't close to Roglic. Roglic struggles with long distances, but based on what he's results so far, he's much better than Vignegaard.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The Dauphiné starts a week later this year as well compared to last year. So if Vinge really doesn't race until then, that's a long time without racing. It means between the 2024 TdF and the 2025 TdF, he'll have done what? The Tour of Poland last August... Algarve in February, a few days in Paris-Nice and then the Dauphiné.

That's approaching what the French would call intermittent du spectacle levels of non-work.

Nowadays, riders don't need a lot of racing days to be in shape. Vingegaard is always firing on all cylinders in February (this year was a bit different though).

 

[kn0s]

I also has this fear but I will not draw any conclusions before his match with Pogacar in the Dauphiné.

Jonas came back and did better than anyone had any right to expect at the 24 TdF. He came in to the 25 season very undercooked by design and won the only race he has finished. Think the rumors of his demise could be a little premature.

 

[MerkantilMerch]

I also has this fear but I will not draw any conclusions before his match with Pogacar in the Dauphiné.

Dont worry I think he will be good and will put monstruous watts/kg in the TdF.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Jonas came back and did better than anyone had any right to expect at the 24 TdF. He came in to the 25 season very undercooked by design and won the only race he has finished. Think the rumors of his demise could be a little premature.

Like I said, I will wait for his duel with Pogacar before drawing any conclusions. But, there are indicators not very positive (his fear of high speed descents, not very comfortable in the bunch, his worst level since 2021 in March).

 

[kn0s]

Like I said, I will wait for his duel with Pogacar before drawing any conclusions. But, there are indicators not very positive (his fear of high speed descents, not very comfortable in the bunch, his worst level since 2021 in March).

We have seen so little at this point it's all just reading tea leafs for me.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

We have seen so little at this point it's all just reading tea leafs for me.

Yes. And even if his shape below what it usually was the last seasons, for whatever reason, there is still a lot of time left. And given at what form he arrived at the Tour post crash, I have faith he'll show up pretty strong at the Tour, oder Dauphine.

 

[Peyroteo94]

We have seen so little at this point it's all just reading tea leafs for me.

Yes, maybe he will race Romandie and we will have a clear picture about his shape/level. If not, Dauphiné will tell us a lot.

 

[Red Rick]

I think the same. Roglic always had a weakness in races over 250 km, and it's become more pronounced with age.

If it weren't for Alaphilippe's maneuver, that Liège would have been a sprint between Pogacar and Hirschi.
Considering how young they were and that Pogacar had won the Tour very young and could be more tired due to lack of experience.
The incredible thing is that he has the same Monuments as Van Aert; that day he had all the luck that Van Aert didn't have in Roubaix 2023.

At no other time he´s been so close to winning a classic of more than 250km.
Only for Lombardia 2023 has he been a favorite for such a long race.

In 2023, Pogacar arrived worse than even to Lombardia, and Roglic arrived to Lombardia better than ever. He looked to strong in previous italian classics. But once again, in a longer race like Lombardia, he showed the weaknesses he hadn't seen in the previous Italian Classics.

Lombardia 2023 is the exapmple of what Pogacar and Roglic are like in long-distance Classics. One arrived worse than ever, and Roglic better dan ever. But in the final part, with the accumulated mileage, Roglic's strength failed him.
The result was again the same because Pogacar compensates for the long distance better, and Roglic doesn't.

This seems to be Vingegaard's problem in one-day races.
He doesn't seem to be able to assimilate a long effort in a single day.

Although Vingegaard isn't close to Roglic. Roglic struggles with long distances, but based on what he's results so far, he's much better than Vignegaard.

Vingegaard does not have a pattern of better performance on shorter 1 day races compared to longer ones at all.

In Lombardia, Rog typically is coming down from Vuelta while Pogacar builds up to the fall season every year. To say Pogacar was in his worst ever form in the fall of 2023 is straight up ludicrous.

 

[Salvarani]

Vingegaard does not have a pattern of better performance on shorter 1 day races compared to longer ones at all.

In Lombardia, Rog typically is coming down from Vuelta while Pogacar builds up to the fall season every year. To say Pogacar was in his worst ever form in the fall of 2023 is straight up ludicrous.

How is it ludicruos when had broken his wrist in LBL and lost a couple months of the season? Affecting him for the rest of the year.

He was riding the Tour on bad preparation and then Worlds also took its toll.

He was not really looking convincing in the Italian races leading up to Lombardy.

His attack came on the false flat in the beginning of the descent and he struggled with cramps towards the finish.

That and the Tour, I would definitely say that is when he has been in his worst ever form.

That he still managed those results just speaks more to his greatness, more than anything else.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vingegaard does not have a pattern of better performance on shorter 1 day races compared to longer ones at all.

In Lombardia, Rog typically is coming down from Vuelta while Pogacar builds up to the fall season every year. To say Pogacar was in his worst ever form in the fall of 2023 is straight up ludicrous.

So this year Roglic can really show his true level again in GdL since he is not racing the Vuelta. It will be a good opportunity for him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

How is it ludicruos when had broken his wrist in LBL and lost a couple months of the season? Affecting him for the rest of the year.

He was riding the Tour on bad preparation and then Worlds also took its toll.

He was not really looking convincing in the Italian races leading up to Lombardy.

His attack came on the false flat in the beginning of the descent and he struggled with cramps towards the finish.

That and the Tour, I would definitely say that is when he has been in his worst ever form.

That he still managed those results just speaks more to his greatness, more than anything else.

He wasn't good in GdL but still better than in 2021

 

[Salvarani]

He wasn't good in GdL but still better than in 2021

I think he was naturally better in 2023, than he was in 2021.

But I think he was in worse form 2023. Given his setbacks and what he had showed prior. The discussion was about worst form.

 

[Salvarani]

What happened to Pogacar after the crash. A lot of bad luck, unfortunately.

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Yup, next time we hope there is no bad luck!

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think he was naturally better in 2023, than he was in 2021.

But I think he was in worse form 2023. Given his setbacks and what he had showed prior. The discussion was about worst form.

Ok, I agree with this.

 

[Salvarani]

He really can become a record holder like Sagan, Merckx, Freire, etc. And if everything goes right, he can win 4 in a row! I don't believe to be honest, so 3 is a good number and then win a 4th in 2030.

Winning his 4th WC in 2030... 10 years after this first TdF win... would be some way to round off the decade.

 

[Peyroteo94]

30 wins for UAE! If they don't have serious crashes from their main riders, they will break the 90 wins mark.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Yup, next time we hope there is no bad luck!

Next time the route will be straight on into the field, I‘m sure

 

[Salvarani]

30 wins for UAE! If they don't have serious crashes from their main riders, they will break the 90 wins mark.

They are having a great season! Awesome to see.

 

[Cycling111]

30 wins for UAE! If they don't have serious crashes from their main riders, they will break the 90 wins mark.

I think it would have been better for Pogacar to have help in PR. .

What good are victories like that for a top team if they couldn't have helped their main leader in a more important race five days ago?

 

[Peyroteo94]

They are having a great season! Awesome to see.

Yup, they are more united than ever and for me, personally, it is great to see because they have my favorite rider and a lot of portuguese riders too. Portuguese cycling is growing again despite our Volta being worse than ever.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think it would have been better for Pogacar to have help in PR. .

What good are victories like that for a top team if they couldn't have helped their main leader in a more important race five days ago?

No one had help (Philipsen helped both Pogacar and MVP). Pogacar lost the race because he was naive. Maybe he could gamble later in the race if he hadn't crashed.

 

[James M]

I think it would have been better for Pogacar to have help in PR. .

Pog had as much to help as many other teams did in Roubaix, if not more than most—where does this idea come from?

Untill and after Arenberg too, it's a lottery, and half the team, like other teams, had mechanical issues. Florian even played a key part in the final; he might not have helped Pogacar directly, but up until Arenberg, Pogacar was consistently placed in the top 10 for almost the entire race, largely due to his team, you cant ask for more imo!

You cant expect them to have riders with him and MvdP alone, noone in the world are strong enough besides them two anyway so objectively what more you want from them? I think its poor taste to blame the team for mechanicals in Arenberg and before and even expect them to have more than 1 guy after the selection in Arenberg in the front group with Pogacar which they did is also expecting alot, they was good. He didnt loose duo to his team thats for sure.

What good are victories like that for a top team if they couldn't have helped their main leader in a more important race five days ago?

One part of the team's goal, like every other team, is to win as many races as possible, naturally, big races are valued more, of course. For Pog, it also reflects the strength of the team throughout, showing that the team is doing something right, whatever that may be, in terms of trajectory, training methods, nutrition, etc., for their riders—which is only a good sign, even for Pog. Its tells.

 

[Jack_89]

He really can become a record holder like Sagan, Merckx, Freire, etc. And if everything goes right, he can win 4 in a row! I don't believe to be honest, so 3 is a good number and then win a 4th in 2030.

the guy is entering the 4/5 golden years of a cyclist's career. One could say that he will burn out before, given that he started winning at a young age (like Sagan for example)... but he is not normal. He is improving season after season, and there is no sign of a plateau. The next few years will be tough for competition I fear.

 

[Peyroteo94]

How many teams have more than one rider able to win GTs or monuments? I just remember Visma in recent years (last 3-4 years).