Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

I think if we look at results, comparing to other sports, he’s on about an Andy Murray level of all time, a bit below the true greats for the time being. I mean he can be better but he’s not there yet.

He has more talent than that of course, but we need to see results. I don’t want to sound harsh, but if he carries on moaning about retirement and fatigue, he can be the GOAT of the miserables, even above Andy.

You are funny eheheheh. Just for curiosity, who are the "True Greats" in your opinion?

 

[Lorzenz08]

And I would say VDP is not better than De Vlaeminck, though it’s close in Roubaix/flanders

Vingegaard is close to Ocana, I’ll give Vingo a benefit of the doubt here, but it’s close

Remco is not better than Gimondi

Even your own arguments are going against you.
So MVDP is close to De Vlaeminck, and Pogacar already beat him 2x in Flanders.
Vingegaard is close to Ocana, and Pogi already beat him 3x.
But Pogi is not even among the greats ? Hahahaaa...

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There is absolutely ZERO person in the cycling world who is NOT A HATER, who would deny that Pogi is among the GREATS, and most would agree he is in contention for the Number 1 spot.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I

You are funny eheheheh. Just for curiosity, who are the "True Greats" in your opinion?

in cycling for results it is Merckx, Anquetil , Hinault
Now based on talent, Coppi and Bartali are also there.
Now Pogacar can be with them in 3 or 4 years, but so far he hasn’t got the results of the first three, and there’s no outside reason like a war stopping him like Coppi and Bartali.

Coppi and Bartali won 12 grand tours between them, and had 30 top tens between them, despite both missing their best years due to the war. Now that is true great calibre, that is campionissimo.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Even your own arguments are going against you.
So MVDP is close to De Vlaeminck, and Pogacar already beat him 2x in Flanders.
Vingegaard is close to Ocana, and Pogi already beat him 4x.
But Pogi is not even among the greats ? Hahahaaa...

-------

There is absolutely ZERO person in the cycling world who is NOT A HATER, who would deny that Pogi is among the GREATS, and most would agree he is in contention for the Number 1 spot.

He is among them , he’s getting there, but the rest of his career hasn’t happened yet.
Coppi and Bartali missed most of their 20s and still have as many grand tours or more than Pogacar does at this present time.
I’m not a hater. Pog just hasn’t done enough yet. And yes ving v ocana is debatable, de Vlaeminck was better than Van der poel.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I think if you picked them all the greats in their prime, in an average tour with decent amount of mountains and decent amount of time trials, with the same equipment, Coppi, Bartali and Merckx would be the podium.
Hinault, Pogacar, Indurain, Lemond would be in the top ten, that is just my opinion

 

[BubbaChuck]

lol number of countries is afactor too.without slovenia there is no best rider of this generation and it would make this era look weak.also there was no best rider of his generation in 60s too,cause he was hiding in slovenia probably smuggling salt over alps,lmaooo.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't get the number of countries argument in regards to the level of field.
If in the 70's you've had 4 Italians, 3 Belgians and 3 french as top dogs and now you have the same number of riders, but from 10 different countries you're still it the same level of depth.
It's just that the field is more international. Hardly a proof of quality.

If we are going to compare something, we have to only compare the top 5-10 risers as they are the ones competing with each other. Is VDP better than De Vlaemink? Is Ocaña better than Vingegaard, is Evenepoel better than Gimondi (for example)?

How you don't get? More nations in cycling mean more professional riders, more talent, etc. Talent is everywhere in the world, in Merckx's time, even if there was a Pogacar, he would never be able to be a pro because he came from a country without any relevance in cycling.
This is so obvious mate.
It's 10x harder to dominate a sport with 2000 pro riders than a sport with 200 pro riders. This is not an opinion, this is maths.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Absolutely but if he gets #5 then, considering how much his results have promoted UAE, the sponsor may allow him one year without the Tour.

I don't believe to be honest. As long as he is the top dog, I can't see a schedule without the TdF.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I

in cycling for results it is Merckx, Anquetil , Hinault
Now based on talent, Coppi and Bartali are also there.
Now Pogacar can be with them in 3 or 4 years, but so far he hasn’t got the results of the first three, and there’s no outside reason like a war stopping him like Coppi and Bartali.

Coppi and Bartali won 12 grand tours between them, and had 30 top tens between them, despite both missing their best years due to the war. Now that is true great calibre, that is campionissimo.

So you are italian...
Pogacar is not great because he is racing in a weak era but Coppi and Bartali were dominating GTs but races in a strong era? Your arguments look like wind, always changing.

 

[Charlyghoul]

lol number of countries is afactor too.without slovenia there is no best rider of this generation and it would make this era look weak.also there was no best rider of his generation in 60s too,cause he was hiding in slovenia probably smuggling salt over alps,lmaooo.

It is weak
In Merckx era let’s look at the top ten,
in 69, including Merckx there were 4 tdf winners in the top ten, + Poulidor
In 70 there were 3 + Poulidor
In 71 there were 5
In 72 there were 5 + Poulidor
In 73 there were 4
In 74 there was 1 + Poulidor

In Tadej era
In 2020 there was 1
In 2021 there was 2
In 2022 there was 3
In 2023 there was 2
In 2024 there was 2
In 2025 there was 2

Now that isn’t to say that some of the other riders in tadejs era can go on to win the tour, but it doesn’t look likely since none of there are anywhere near consistent.
The tour is a two horse race, in the 70s it was a competition of champions.

 

[Charlyghoul]

So you are italian...
Pogacar is not great because he is racing in a weak era but Coppi and Bartali were dominating GTs but races in a strong era? Your arguments look like wind, always changing.

He is racing in a weak era, especially in the tour, he has one competitor who can even finish in the top ten with regularity

 

[Charlyghoul]

The third best rider of this generation is meant to be Remco, he’s podiumed once and cannot even have a consistent season!
The rest of the field is weak, please can we have enough of this international field is better rhetoric? The evidence is that it is simply not true.
Indurain reign top ten tdf winners:
4
3
3
2
2
Anquetil era is fairly poor here, similar to the current era.
Hinaults was better than Pogs, not as good as Merckx

Actually looking at the competition, Merckx beat the best competition of any of the multiple winners. To say his era was weak is laughable. He was the best, in the best era.

 

[Unchained]

I will say again, if cycling is so much more specialised, why are there only two consistent riders in the tour?
The only other consistent rider over the last few years has been Adam Yates, a guy who’s never won a grand tour.
In Merckx era the contenders were much more consistent and were of a much higher calibre. The top ten was always stacked with tour winners or grand tour winners.

Think of it this way, in Merckx time there was a top ten of thoroughbred Gc racehorses, Merckx was the stallion.
Now there are two stallions, and a peloton of mules.
I know which is era is better overall.

Is your sense of cycling history @5 years? 10? 15?, 20?
Slovenia is a blip in history..Denmark is what percentage of TDF winners over last @30-40+ years?
Certainly don't want to look at Tadej or Jonas' home countries as historical trends.. Pogacar obviously doesn't share your opinion that he is winning with ease, coasting to victory. He instead is showing signs that he has raced on the limit for a long time. 5 years is certainly a trend but overall cycling history these 2 stallions are nowhere near dominating in history.. So far.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Is your sense of cycling history @5 years? 10? 15?, 20?
Slovenia is a blip in history..Denmark is what percentage of TDF winners over last @30-40+ years?
Certainly don't want to look at Tadej or Jonas' home countries as historical trends.. Pogacar obviously doesn't share your opinion that he is winning with ease, coasting to victory. He instead is showing signs that he has raced on the limit for a long time. 5 years is certainly a trend but overall cycling history these 2 stallions are nowhere near dominating in history.. So far.

I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say, but I think we’re in a weak era outside the top two who are both very good. It’s a strange era in that respect

 

[HashRouge]

Am I the only one who just doesn't care about Mercx? It was ages ago and I just don't care.

 

[Cycling111]

Even your own arguments are going against you.
So MVDP is close to De Vlaeminck, and Pogacar already beat him 2x in Flanders.
Vingegaard is close to Ocana, and Pogi already beat him 3x.
But Pogi is not even among the greats ? Hahahaaa...

-------

There is absolutely ZERO person in the cycling world who is NOT A HATER, who would deny that Pogi is among the GREATS, and most would agree he is in contention for the Number 1 spot.

De Vlaeminck finished seventh in the Sallanches World Championships, while VDP doesn't even compete in some classics because the are hard.

Furthermore, De Vlaeminck also won more races than VDP. If Pogacar isnñ one of the greats with his track record VDP is even less so.

But VDP is already one of the best, and Pogacar, who is far superior to him as a cyclist, isn't. LOL

Overrating Vingegaard while they underrating Pogacar is nonsense at this point. There's no comparison between the two as cyclists in general.
It's like when those who defend Remco undervalue Pogacar. If they undervalue Pogacar, what are they doing with Remco, who doesn't even have half the important wins in GT and Monuments? It's absurd.

To defend VDP, Vingegaard, or Remco, the most absurd thing is to undervalue Pogacar, who has won twice as much as them. If Pogacar isn't that good then the others are much worse.

 

[Unchained]

He is racing in a weak era, especially in the tour, he has one competitor who can even finish in the top ten with regularity

The era that Pogacar is racing in is the fastest, the strongest in history by numbers. To use your word, mule..the current pack of mules have highest average speeds year on year, no reason to think that 2026 race speeds won't be higher again, higher than year before, than year before that. Don't know how familiar you are with mules but they can run pretty fast!!

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/PVq3xTA2MqQ

 

[Charlyghoul]

The era that Pogacar is racing in is the fastest, the strongest in history by numbers. To use your word, mule..the current pack of mules have highest average speeds year on year, no reason to think that 2026 race speeds won't be higher again, higher than year before, than year before that. Don't know how familiar you are with mules but they can run pretty fast!!

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/PVq3xTA2MqQ

Ha ha, yes maybe.
But this is only true because of better equipment, better roads, better everything. These mules won’t run so fast on gravel roads and two speed bicycles

 

[Unchained]

I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say, but I think we’re in a weak era outside the top two who are both very good. It’s a strange era in that respect

It's just statistically false..everyone from best to worst is stronger and faster than ever. And bike racing is bike racing.. Majority of racers that have participated don't win..not winning is the tradition not winning. That is done by elite minority

 

[Charlyghoul]

Am I the only one who just doesn't care about Mercx? It was ages ago and I just don't care.

That’s fine if you’re one who doesn’t claim Pog to be the greatest.
If someone says that Pog is the goat, then they have to care about Merckx, or they are just frankly stupid

 

[Monsi]

Am I the only one who just doesn't care about Mercx? It was ages ago and I just don't care.

Don't really care about the "all time" talks just cause I think it's hard to compare eras.

 

[Charlyghoul]

It's just statistically false..everyone from best to worst is stronger and faster than ever. And bike racing is bike racing.. Majority of racers that have participated don't win..not winning is the tradition not winning. That is done by elite minority

If they were stronger and faster than ever then there would be more consistency in the top places. They might be faster, but they aren’t stronger, or better.
Average race speed is a terrible metric to compare eras, the worst metric

 

[Unchained]

Ha ha, yes maybe.
But this is only true because of better equipment, better roads, better everything. These mules won’t run so fast on gravel roads and two speed bicycles

But why use silly historical references? Is finding a local blacksmith to forge a broken part for your bike a current skill? Changing your own tires after carrying them on your body!! Or dismount to switch gears!!? Is cycling divided into shifting eras? Single speed, get off to change chain, downtube shifters, mechanical, electronic shifting?

 

[Charlyghoul]

But why use silly historical references? Is finding a local blacksmith to forge a broken part for your bike a current skill? Changing your own tires after carrying them on your body!! Or dismount to switch gears!!? Is cycling divided into shifting eras? Single speed, get off to change chain, downtube shifters, mechanical, electronic shifting?

I never brought that stuff up, you did.
I said the best way to compare is the quality of the riders who are finishing on the podium and in the top ten.
In Merckx era the competition was much stronger. It’s now a two horse race.
The speed of the rest of the peloton means nothing.

 

[Unchained]

If they were stronger and faster than ever then there would be more consistency in the top places. They might be faster, but they aren’t stronger, or better.
Average race speed is a terrible metric to compare eras, the worst metric

Speed and wattage are the metrics, for better or worse how fast people can ride a bike in a stage, in an hour on a velodrome, in TTs is the industry standard, hardly a subjective measurement of bike racing performance.. Since invention of the bicycle, how to go faster has been major goal for rider and machine