Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar is just a great rider, it doesn’t mean he has done the impossible by competing across all the races. It doesn’t mean the other riders are better.
Nibali was hardly a tour great but he did what Pogacar has done, just to a lesser extent, Valverde and Rodriguez too.

a truly great rider should be able to compete across all kinds of races, it should be expected.
Coppi did it, Merckx did it, Hinault did it, now Pog is going it.
Besides Vingo, the top ten is very weak in this era which helps.
Where is Basso, Ulrich, Mancebo, Valverde, Vino ? At least that eras top ten was strong.

I get you love Pog, but he hasn’t done enough to be the goat yet, sorry.

Mancebo?
You rate Valverde higher than Roglic in GTs for example?

 

[Charlyghoul]

Again, Pogi is the 🐐. Today's peloton is much much stronger than it has ever been.
It has been explained hundreds of times, just read back.

The top ten is one of the weakest ever. Weak era in that respect

 

[AmRacer]

The top ten is one of the weakest ever. Weak era in that respect

Nope, the top 10 is much much stronger now. Merckx era was very weak in comparison.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Mancebo?
You rate Valverde higher than Roglic in GTs for example?

not prime for prime, Roglic is perhaps the only one with some kind of consistency now.
look at the top ten in the 2000s, you had the same guys, Valverde, Sastre, Kloden, Mancebo, Ulrich, Pererio.
The gc contenders were stronger even if they couldn’t usually compete for the top one or two places.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Nope, the top 10 is much much stronger now. Merckx era was very weak in comparison.

Ha ha 🤣
Seriously? There were multiple tour winners in all of the early 70s tours, maybe it’s you who needs to read back.
Maybe you think Adam Yates or Richie Porte is better than Ocana or Gimondi?

 

[AmRacer]

Ha ha 🤣
Seriously? There were multiple tour winners in all of the early 70s tours, maybe it’s you who needs to read back.
Maybe you think Adam Yates or Richie Porte is better than Ocana or Gimondi?

🤣 One reason is that the peloton was much weaker back then. As has been explained multiple times.

 

[YavorD]

I think it’s a bit of a bad argument. Today there are around, what 530 World Tour riders and around 400 Pro Conti riders. With over 900 professional riders, compared to what, maybe 50 in the days of Merckx i think it’s just logical to assume that the general level is much higher today. And that where it before would be 5 great riders from one nation there are still the same (or even more) number at a high level, but because of the general higher level and more nations around the relative level that would be enough to be a top 20 rider in the World before is now maybe equal to a top 50 rider in the World now.

Yes, that's a valid point.
I was making a similar point in my mind. There is a chance that the talent pool in France and Italy (as main examples, even though France is producing supposedly top talents lately) isn't really shrinking
It's just that as you said, in the cycling of 70's, let's say, Tiberi would have been top 3 or 5 GT rider and would have naturally won GT's, elevating him in the all time ranking, today he isn't even top 10, doesn't win anything and nobody talks about him as a great rider.

However, we can't know for sure whether that's true or not, IMO.

 

[Charlyghoul]

🤣 One reason is that the peloton was much weaker back then. As has been explained multiple times.

No, much better
You cannot even give a reason for what you’re saying.
Look at the top ten in Indurains first win. 10th place rider never really won much.
All the rest were monument winners, tour winners, world champions, giro winners.
This is what you had in Merckx time too.

The big two now beguile the fact that the rest of the field is poor.

 

[AmRacer]

No, much better
You cannot even give a reason for what you’re saying.
Look at the top ten in Indurains first win. 10th place rider never really won much.
All the rest were monument winners, tour winners, world champions, giro winners.
This is what you had in Merckx time too.

The big two now beguile the fact that the rest of the field is poor.

Yes, very much better. That's why GC riders cannot win monuments today, except a few.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes, that's a valid point.
I was making a similar point in my mind. There is a chance that the talent pool in France and Italy (as main examples, even though France is producing supposedly top talents lately) isn't really shrinking
It's just that as you said, in the cycling of 70's, let's say, Tiberi would have been top 3 or 5 GT rider and would have naturally won GT's, elevating him in the all time ranking, today he isn't even top 10, doesn't win anything and nobody talks about him as a great rider.

However, we can't know for sure whether that's true or not, IMO.

Even WVA would contest GTs in his prime.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Yes, very much better. That's why GC riders cannot win monuments today, except a few.

How many tours do you think let’s say Zoetemelk would win in this era ?
I think he’d win at least one, probably more likely to win more than one due to his longevity.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Even WVA would contest GTs in his prime.

Put Zoetemelk in this era he does at least as well as in his own era…

 

[AmRacer]

How many tours do you think let’s say Zoetemelk would win in this era ?
I think he’d win at least one, probably more likely to win more than one due to his longevity.

Zero

 

[Charlyghoul]

Zero

Rubbish

 

[AmRacer]

Put Zoetemelk in this era he does at least as well as in his own era…

Nope

 

[AmRacer]

Rubbish

Nope

 

[Charlyghoul]

Nope

He’d win at least one, and dominate the Vuelta or giro if he wanted.
Levels

 

[AmRacer]

He’d win at least one, and dominate the Vuelta or giro if he wanted.
Levels

Rogla

 

[BubbaChuck]

well size is important in boxing,lmaoo.and he talks about ali.champ,keep it with eddie.thye even have weight classes in fighting game,doesnot matter.im telling,juts by looking pog and eddie,its kabeem.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Rogla

Primoz aint getting a win and six 2nds in the Merckx /Hinault era.
He’s podiumed once in his own era.

 

[AmRacer]

well size is important in boxing,lmaoo.and he talks about ali.champ,keep it with eddie.thye even have weight classes in fighting game,doesnot matter.im telling,juts by looking pog and eddie,its kabeem.

Eddy would have been competing with Mathieu.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Eddy was supposed to be a good boxer in his youth , now that we bring it up again.
He will ride vdp and Tadej off his wheel, then box their ears off.
One and only goat, the wild bull of Brabant

 

[Red Lobster]

Put Zoetemelk in this era he does at least as well as in his own era…

Put Geraint Thomas in Zoetemelk's era and he does as well as Zoetemelk.

 

[AmRacer]

Eddy was supposed to be a good boxer in his youth , now that we bring it up again.
He will ride vdp and Tadej off his wheel, then box their ears off.
One and only goat, the wild bull of Brabant

Eddy will ride Mathieu and Pogi off his wheel, after he boxed their ears off.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Put Geraint Thomas in Zoetemelk's era and he does as well as Zoetemelk.

You know, he could pull one out there sure.
So the eras are comparable after all! Joop and Geraint have brought a conclusion.
blimey Pog has a long way to go 😋