Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Besides Vingegaard the best riders there are not close to the best riders of Merckx’ time

There’s plenty of evidence that pou-pou, joop, Ocana or Gimondi would at least finish on the podium in today’s era.
Only Vingegaard , possibly Roglic when he was young could do the same in Merckx.
Much better strength in depth in those days

Again, you are changing your narrative. First Merckx was beating GT winners, now that I showed you Pogacar also beats GT winners, this argument doesn't matter anymore.

 

[AmRacer]

Besides Vingegaard the best riders there are not close to the best riders of Merckx’ time

There’s plenty of evidence that pou-pou, joop, Ocana or Gimondi would at least finish on the podium in today’s era.
Only Vingegaard , possibly Roglic when he was young could do the same in Merckx.
Much better strength in depth in those days

Nope, the current peloton is much much stronger than it was before back in the days.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Again, you changing your narrative. First Merckx was beating GT winners, now that I showed you Pogacar also beats GT winners, this argument doesn't matter anymore.

Everybody beats some gt winners, Merckx beat more of them , close to their prime, and more that were actually capable of winning the tour.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Nope, the current peloton is much much stronger than it was before back in the days.

You’ve said that about ten times without giving any reasoning, instead of asking me to read back, why can’t you say for yourself why you think so ?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Nope, the current peloton is much much stronger than it was before back in the days.

Create a poll eheheh. Maybe when 90% of the forum disagrees with him, he will change his opinion.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Everybody beats some gt winners, Merckx beat more of them , close to their prime, and more that were actually capable of winning the tour.

Name them. I will do the same with Pogacar.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Besides Vingegaard the best riders there are not close to the best riders of Merckx’ time

There’s plenty of evidence that pou-pou, joop, Ocana or Gimondi would at least finish on the podium in today’s era.
Only Vingegaard , possibly Roglic when he was young could do the same in Merckx.
Much better strength in depth in those days

This is all just your subjective opinion. There are plenty of evidence you say, where are the evidence? How do you objectively decide this?

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is all just your subjective opinion. There are plenty of evidence you say, where are the evidence? How do you objectively decide this?

His post just reminds me this. I'm not calling him an idiot but his post was silly (again, I'm not calling him an idiot, I don't want a ban again).

The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.” —Charles Bukowski​

 

[Charlyghoul]

In Eddys first giro win in 68 the rest of the top ten
*at the time* had 6 gt wins between them

In 70 it was 5
In 72 it was 6
In 73 it was 6
In 74 it was 7

Let’s look at the top ten of the last several giros in this era.
This year the rest of the top ten had 3 gt wins

In 24, it was 1
In 23 it was 1
In 22 it was 5
In 21 it was 1

I didn’t know it was that bad until I looked them up Pog needs 15 grand tours to overtake Eddy

 

[Charlyghoul]

This is all just your subjective opinion. There are plenty of evidence you say, where are the evidence? How do you objectively decide this?

I’ve already done some tour statistics, I’ve just looked at the comparison between the giros in Merckx time and Pogs.
The results speak for themselves

 

[Charlyghoul]

His post just reminds me this. I'm not calling him an idiot but his post was silly (again, I'm not calling him an idiot, I don't want a ban again).

The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.” —Charles Bukowski​

Well you are implying it.
Look at the results , I’ve taken the time to put why I think this era is no stronger. Where are your statistics outside of the usual ‘pogs watts are unprecedented’
Again, that’s meaningless
The best way to compare eras is look at competition.

 

[AmRacer]

You’ve said that about ten times without giving any reasoning, instead of asking me to read back, why can’t you say for yourself why you think so ?

You have said that tens of times the last couple of days without any arguments. And the reasoning is presented to you multiple times, just read back in the thread.

 

[Charlyghoul]

You have said that tens of times the last couple of days without any arguments. And the reasoning is presented to you multiple times, just read back in the thread.

I put lots of good arguments, more reasoned than yours.
Put lots of statistics, but you ignore them because they fly in the face of Pog > Merckx.

 

[AmRacer]

I put lots of good arguments, more reasoned than yours.
Put lots of statistics, but you ignore them because they fly in the face of Pog > Merckx.

Nope, you did not. They all have been proven wrong multiple times, which you are ignoring.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Nope, you did not. They all have been proven wrong multiple times, which you are ignoring.

What about the giro then ?
Giro was very strong from Coppi era all through the Merckx era.
It’s had some weak editions here and there just like the tour.
Pogs era is one of the weakest, and Pogs win is one of the weakest editions of that.

Merckx won 5 in one of the strongest giro eras.
Pog is miles behind Merckx , why can you not accept?

 

[AmRacer]

What about the giro then ?
Giro was very strong from Coppi era all through the Merckx era.
It’s had some weak editions here and there just like the tour.
Pogs era is one of the weakest, and Pogs win is one of the weakest editions of that.

won 5 in one of the strongest giro eras.
Pog is milMerckxes behind Merckx , why can you not accept?

Nope, this era is the strongest. Pogi is the GOAT and makes competition looks worse than they are. Merckx era was much weaker. Why can you not accept that?

And whataboutism doesn't work.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Pog, does not even have a nickname.


Il Campionissimo
Monsieur Chrono
The Cannibal
The Badger
Big Mig
The Eagle of Toledo


‘Pog’

Why? He doesn’t have outstanding characteristics to describe his racing style or personality.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Nope, this era is the strongest. Pogi is the GOAT and makes competition looks worse than they are. Merckx era was much weaker. Why can you not accept that?

And whataboutism doesn't work.

Subjective, factually wrong
You’ve completely ignored those giro figures.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Well you are implying it.
Look at the results , I’ve taken the time to put why I think this era is no stronger. Where are your statistics outside of the usual ‘pogs watts are unprecedented’
Again, that’s meaningless
The best way to compare eras is look at competition.

No, I just relembered this quote.

 

[AmRacer]

Subjective, factually wrong
You’ve completely ignored those giro figures.

You are, yes.

 

[AmRacer]

Pog, does not even have a nickname.


Il Campionissimo
Monsieur Chrono
The Cannibal
The Badger
Big Mig
The Eagle of Toledo


‘Pog’

Why? He doesn’t have outstanding characteristics to describe his racing style or personality.

GOAT

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pog, does not even have a nickname.


Il Campionissimo
Monsieur Chrono
The Cannibal
The Badger
Big Mig
The Eagle of Toledo


‘Pog’

Why? He doesn’t have outstanding characteristics to describe his racing style or personality.

You are funny eheheh.

 

[Peyroteo94]

In Eddys first giro win in 68 the rest of the top ten
*at the time* had 6 gt wins between them

In 70 it was 5
In 72 it was 6
In 73 it was 6
In 74 it was 7

Let’s look at the top ten of the last several giros in this era.
This year the rest of the top ten had 3 gt wins

In 24, it was 1
In 23 it was 1
In 22 it was 5
In 21 it was 1

I didn’t know it was that bad until I looked them up Pog needs 15 grand tours to overtake Eddy

Just looking to the Tour 2024.
Bernal
Vingegaard
Remco
Yates
Carapaz
Thomas
Roglic

7 GT winners (not in the top10)

You mentioned 7 GT winners in the top10 but a couple of them weren't GT winners when they finished top10 in the Giro 1974.
Moser
Battaglin

I just looked to this edition (Giro 1974) and you still came up with incorrect facts. There were only 6 GT winners but only 4 until that moment.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Better quality meats available to the riders now means more protein is absorbed in to the bodily system per kilo, this means higher wattage output.

Creatine is available now, it means recovery is quicker over a stage race as glycogen is absorbed in to the muscles much quicker, and lactate threshold is therefore higher, this advantage wasn’t available for Eddy.

Tyres are fatter now as it’s been proven they roll better when they’re fatter, Eddy was on tiny thin little tryres.

Isotonic drinks are more available now, this means concentration remains higher over a long race.

Masseurs now have real qualifications from the universities, Coppi had a blind masseur with no credentials.
Modern riders have attractive masseurs who can see, that makes a difference in recovery.

Humans now are on average taller, this means more leverage for the pedals, meaning once again higher wattages.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Better quality meats available to the riders now means more protein is absorbed in to the bodily system per kilo, this means higher wattage output.

Creatine is available now, it means recovery is quicker over a stage race as glycogen is absorbed in to the muscles much quicker, and lactate threshold is therefore higher, this advantage wasn’t available for Eddy.

Tyres are fatter now as it’s been proven they roll better when they’re fatter, Eddy was on tiny thin little tryres.

Isotonic drinks are more available now, this means concentration remains higher over a long race.

Masseurs now have real qualifications from the universities, Coppi had a blind masseur with no credentials.
Modern riders have attractive masseurs who can see, that makes a difference in recovery.

Humans now are on average taller, this means more leverage for the pedals, meaning once again higher wattages.

I don't know why you are mentioning this.
Speed is the same?