Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[vappaxbipmv]

On most courses he would get destroyed. It’s not only about being able to push 50W more. MVDP and WVA do different trainings to be competitive. Not just technical training, but being able to give it all in 1 hour. Not like a bike race of 5 hours

Maybe you ignored or missed the part where I said "with some training and on a not very technical course". Btw, what do you consider destroyed?

 

[Oldman]

Who for example?

half of them would be the Belgians that follow WvA around. I don't know enough about specific 'crosser since broadcasts here are few. Their are plenty that stay close enough to the top guys to fill out the roster of a 2nd tier WC team if they were compensated to ride the road. Most crossers and MTB riders I've met are far tougher than road racers. Given proper training I have no doubt many would surprise the purists here.

 

[Oldman]

Disagree with this point. RR has way deeper talent pool (due to more money). In RR WC they would be demolished by guys like Pogacar, Evenepoel or Van der Poel.
As for lightweight climbers, obviously they are not fitted to CX routes (but even then there's Pidcock).

I didn't mean to suggest they'd impact the dominance of the top guys. That skill level, like good MTB and cyclocross riders; takes time to cultivate. The financial path in top road racing is very thin for those that don't show immediate promise or go the route of Zwift phenom promotions.

 

[red_flanders]

half of them would be the Belgians that follow WvA around. I don't know enough about specific 'crosser since broadcasts here are few. Their are plenty that stay close enough to the top guys to fill out the roster of a 2nd tier WC team if they were compensated to ride the road. Most crossers and MTB riders I've met are far tougher than road racers. Given proper training I have no doubt many would surprise the purists here.

I don't think calling folks who don't think the level of the XC riders right now isn't on par with the Road Peloton "purists" is fair. I'm a mountain biker, so could hardly be called a "purist" with regard to the road.

Clearly there have been XC riders who have come good on the road, legends even. Now and in past decades. However, for me the general feeling is that all the guys who can, have moved at this point. When MVdP, WVA, and TP aren't at a race, it seems to me that the level is just not close. I can't prove it. I'm surprised anyone debates it though, it seems pretty obvious to me. The idea that any of those guys could compete with a guy who does whatever he wants in the pro peloton, and is regarded as the GOAT or close...well I just can't see it. But we're all entitled to our POV of course.

 

[BubbaChuck]

pog watts are crazy now.dont get me wrong,his bike handling would get him in trouble,but watts are getting nuts.but lets wait for san remo for starters.

 

[Peyroteo94]

half of them would be the Belgians that follow WvA around. I don't know enough about specific 'crosser since broadcasts here are few. Their are plenty that stay close enough to the top guys to fill out the roster of a 2nd tier WC team if they were compensated to ride the road. Most crossers and MTB riders I've met are far tougher than road racers. Given proper training I have no doubt many would surprise the purists here.

They can be tougher but they aren't as gifted (aerobic capacity) as top level road race riders.

 

[Cycling111]

Perhaps it's purist to think that everyone who does cyclocross is a god.
It's something you notice in some cycling circles. Cyclocross riders are untouchable in many ways: from criticism or of "clinic" accusations that other cyclists suffer.
If there's purism, I'd say it's actually the other way around. The cyclocross fan is the purist and the one who puts these riders on a pedestal. It has to be admitted that the standards for criticism aren't the same; they enjoy a special kind of immunity from the fans.

As has been rightly said, everyone who can succeed on the road ends up prioritizing road cycling.
If Vandeputte doesn't win on the road, it's because he can't.

Van Aert is far superior to most of cyclocross riders, and Van Aert is far inferior to Pogacar in the Monuments. But we're being purist by thinking that seven cyclocross riders worse than Van Aert wouldn't win a road world championship.

 

[Oldman]

They can be tougher but they aren't as gifted (aerobic capacity) as top level road race riders.

"they"? It starts w/genetic VO2 max and ability to generate power. The rest is trainable given the environment for it. Most Mtb kids I see think road riders are a lesser species. IMO opinion you can't generalize about the end capability until they are exposed to it and that would need to be at an early age.

 

[Oldman]

I don't think calling folks who don't think the level of the XC riders right now isn't on par with the Road Peloton "purists" is fair. I'm a mountain biker, so could hardly be called a "purist" with regard to the road.

Clearly there have been XC riders who have come good on the road, legends even. Now and in past decades. However, for me the general feeling is that all the guys who can, have moved at this point. When MVdP, WVA, and TP aren't at a race, it seems to me that the level is just not close. I can't prove it. I'm surprised anyone debates it though, it seems pretty obvious to me. The idea that any of those guys could compete with a guy who does whatever he wants in the pro peloton, and is regarded as the GOAT or close...well I just can't see it. But we're all entitled to our POV of course.

I'd agree on the level of cross racing tends to trend up or down based on the best riders. After all, it's a very hard discipline on evolving terrain (particularly when wet and muddy). You'd want to save yourself for decisive moments. On the road you can overcommit and seek shelter in the peloton to recover. Not much opportunity in CX or Mtb for chilling. The best appear to seek a gap that allows for a crash or mechanical so they can maintain a lead but they don't bury themselves needlessly. It's tough. Some of those elements played out in PR when Tadej had to fuss with his chain before chasing MvP. Matheu just toyed with the gap and rode his pace until it grew from Pogacar's eventual fatigue. The last 20km was ridden by the best Cx'er vs the best Roadie.

 

[Berniece]

Maybe you ignored or missed the part where I said "with some training and on a not very technical course". Btw, what do you consider destroyed?

I didn't ignore that, it's just that we are creating a very specific scenario where he might win. If Pogacar trains very hard for it, I'm sure he'll be able to win. I'm saying that if he joins now, he won't.

 

[AmRacer]

I didn't ignore that, it's just that we are creating a very specific scenario where he might win. If Pogacar trains very hard for it, I'm sure he'll be able to win. I'm saying that if he joins now, he won't.

If Mathieu is still on holiday, or just starting training again, he won't win either.

 

[Peyroteo94]

No surprise. I still rate Combloux higher though, what a shocking performance.

CyclingUpToDate Awards: Tadej Pogacar voted Individual Performance of 2025 for dominant World Championships triumph

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cyclinguptodate.com

 

[vappaxbipmv]

I didn't ignore that, it's just that we are creating a very specific scenario where he might win. If Pogacar trains very hard for it, I'm sure he'll be able to win. I'm saying that if he joins now, he won't.

There's a massive difference between "not winning" and "being destroyed"

 

[Krzysztof_O]

No surprise. I still rate Combloux higher though, what a shocking performance.

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In a year filled with unforgettable displays of power and nerve, readers have chosen Tadej Pogacar’s solo World Championships victory in Kigali as the defining ride of 2025. The Slovenian superstar c...

cyclinguptodate.com

There are a few performances that could be considered, IMO Hautacam and Lombardy are good candidates for his best in 2025 but they don't have WC vibe.

 

[Peyroteo94]

There are a few performances that could be considered, IMO Hautacam and Lombardy are good candidates for his best in 2025 but they don't have WC vibe.

But they are clearly better performances than Vingegaard on Bola del Mundo (it only had 1% for obvious reasons. It shouldn't be even there).
Don't forget SB, FW and RVV. Way above Vingegaard on Bola del Mundo.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

But they are clearly better performances than Vingegaard on Bola del Mundo (it only had 1% for obvious reasons. It shouldn't be even there).
Don't forget SB, FW and RVV. Way above Vingegaard on Bola del Mundo.

In terms of pure level there should be mostly Pogacar's performances in the poll plus 1-2 by MVP (spring monuments) and maybe WC TT by Evenepoel. But obviously they wanted to diversify the poll.

 

[Berniece]

In terms of pure level there should be mostly Pogacar's performances in the poll plus 1-2 by MVP (spring monuments) and maybe WC TT by Evenepoel. But obviously they wanted to diversify the poll.

Not just level, it's also called "individual" performance. There aren't many options in that case for this year. Pogacar at WC and EUC. MVDP at Roubaix. WVA stage 21. Evenepoel WC ITT. Everything is else isn't a big individual performance because it was influenced a lot by team work.

 

[Peyroteo94]

In terms of pure level there should be mostly Pogacar's performances in the poll plus 1-2 by MVP (spring monuments) and maybe WC TT by Evenepoel. But obviously they wanted to diversify the poll.

WCTT is clearly a performance that should be there instead of Vingegaard on Bola del Mundo.
Even the second stage Vingegaard won in the Vuelta was better.
If you want to diversify the poll, you put Mads in GW.