Tadej Pogačar Giro 2024 performance compared to the next WADA clean cyclist? Asking for a friend

[Mr Mysto]

Hi all,

I recently witnessed Tadej Pogačar’s fantastic performance in the 2024 Giro. A friend asked me how this compares to the achievements of other clean cyclists, and I found it challenging to answer because many comparisons involve athletes with histories of banned substance use.

Could someone enlighten us on how Pogačar’s recent staggering performance stacks up when considering only clean athlete Giro performances? Tadej Pogačar serves as a great role model for our children and deserves to be celebrated alongside fellow clean cyclists, rather than being compared to the tainted past of enhanced performances. Discussing athletes who had unfair advantages undermines the integrity of the UCI and the accomplishments of current clean athletes.

If anyone can share insights on the best clean Giro performance prior to this, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance.

 

[AmRacer]

Hi all,

I recently witnessed Tadej Pogačar’s fantastic performance in the 2024 Giro. A friend asked me how this compares to the achievements of other clean cyclists, and I found it challenging to answer because many comparisons involve athletes with histories of banned substance use.

Could someone enlighten us on how Pogačar’s recent staggering performance stacks up when considering only clean athlete Giro performances? Tadej Pogačar serves as a great role model for our children and deserves to be celebrated alongside fellow clean cyclists, rather than being compared to the tainted past of enhanced performances. Discussing athletes who had unfair advantages undermines the integrity of the UCI and the accomplishments of current clean athletes.

If anyone can share insights on the best clean Giro performance prior to this, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance.

Mathieu is proably a better big one-day racer than Tadej.
Jonas is better than Tadej on GT's. Last year for example, Jonas had similar advandatge over the peloton (except Tadej) as Tadej had at this Giro. And that TdF field was better than this Giro.
Jonas could've pulled off a similar stunt against this field.

 

[Mr Mysto]

Mathieu is proably a better big one-day racer than Tadej.
Jonas is better than Tadej on GT's. Last year for example, Jonas had similar advandatge over the peloton (except Tadej) as Tadej had at this Giro. And that TdF field was better than this Giro.
Jonas could've pulled off a similar stunt against this field.

Thank you, it was hard to find out

 

[Mr Mysto]

Thank you, it was hard to find out

I was thinking may be Cadel Evan’s would be in the mix with other clean Giro greats

 

[Forever The Best]

Ferrari said on his blog that he trained with Evans after getting a call from Rominger, Evans' manager. Evans regularly matched/beat proven dopers at various races in his prime. Some of his performances (Mende 2005, Aubisque, Galibier and both TTs in 2007 to name some) are very much ridiculous. I don't get this Evans clean thing.

 

[Netserk]

The only rider who has made the top-10 of a GT in the past 30 years who I think could have been clean, is Moncoutié. And I'm unsure how much stock to put in his reputation.

 

[Mr Mysto]

The only rider who has made the top-10 of a GT in the past 30 years who I think could have been clean, is Moncoutié. And I'm unsure how much stock to put in his reputation.

Woh, that’s disappointing, I thought there may have been a few in the top 5 over recent years

 

[Mr Mysto]

The only rider who has made the top-10 of a GT in the past 30 years who I think could have been clean, is Moncoutié. And I'm unsure how much stock to put in his reputation.

The only rider who has made the top-10 of a GT in the past 30 years who I think could have been clean, is Moncoutié. And I'm unsure how much stock to put in his reputation.

The question came about from this article, which only seems to refer to past athletes with black marks, written by the national Australian Broadcaster ABC (Pogacar against the best of the rest (doped or clean))

 

[kingjr]

The only rider who has made the top-10 of a GT in the past 30 years who I think could have been clean, is Moncoutié. And I'm unsure how much stock to put in his reputation.

Bradley McGee in the Giro '04

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Woh, that’s disappointing, I thought there may have been a few in the top 5 over recent years

Teddy is another candidate. Straight from the horse's mouth:

Pogacar: I'm a good boy, I don't take shortcuts
Gianetti: Today, I, like many other team managers, can believe in this sport and in this new generation. Before as a manager it was impossible to totally trust riders...I still have nightmares of my time managing previous teams, nowadays I sleep a lot better.

 

[Netserk]

Bradley McGee in the Giro '04

I don't know if he had an exceptional CdA, but if not, I don't find it plausible that a totally clean athlete could medal the individual pursuit in the '96(!), '00 & '04 Olympics. Or win a Tour prologue.

 

[Andre]

The only rider who has made the top-10 of a GT in the past 30 years who I think could have been clean, is Moncoutié. And I'm unsure how much stock to put in his reputation.

Didn't Monfort also finish top ten? I always thought he was a clean rider

 

[pastronef]

I've had to read the post twice and I still can't understand if he's joking or not

 

[kingjr]

I don't know if he had an exceptional CdA, but if not, I don't find it plausible that a totally clean athlete could medal the individual pursuit in the '96(!), '00 & '04 Olympics. Or win a Tour prologue.

I really have nothing to go on outside my "people skills", but I find him believable. In terms of plausibility, I would need an expert, like a physiologist or something, to explain to me why a time of 4:26 with the tech and training methods available in the mid-90s is not plausible without doping (same for 4:17 in 2004). I have no expertise in this field myself.
As for the prologue, he won that due to Millar's technical difficulties, yet Millar told McGee in private, and later said explicitly in public, that he was doped at the time and McGee wasn't.

 

[Rob5091]

"clean athlete Giro performances"? Let's use a little logic here, the guy that everyone was comparing Pogacar to was Pantani. That should say a lot if you put on your thinking cap for a minute or two.
Whatever it is UAE is putting in Pogi's porridge every morning might not be on WADA's list of banned substances but I think he's riding on more then bread and water.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Didn't Monfort also finish top ten? I always thought he was a clean rider

2011 Vuelta and finished ahead of Nibali. His next highlight would be racing against JVDB at 2015 Giro when they were both on Lotto.

 

[topcat]

Hi all,

I recently witnessed Tadej Pogačar’s fantastic performance in the 2024 Giro. A friend asked me how this compares to the achievements of other clean cyclists, and I found it challenging to answer because many comparisons involve athletes with histories of banned substance use.

Could someone enlighten us on how Pogačar’s recent staggering performance stacks up when considering only clean athlete Giro performances? Tadej Pogačar serves as a great role model for our children and deserves to be celebrated alongside fellow clean cyclists, rather than being compared to the tainted past of enhanced performances. Discussing athletes who had unfair advantages undermines the integrity of the UCI and the accomplishments of current clean athletes.

If anyone can share insights on the best clean Giro performance prior to this, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance.

Is this a piss-take?
Either way, it's funny.

 

[Scarponi]

Ferrari said on his blog that he trained with Evans after getting a call from Rominger, Evans' manager. Evans regularly matched/beat proven dopers at various races in his prime. Some of his performances (Mende 2005, Aubisque, Galibier and both TTs in 2007 to name some) are very much ridiculous. I don't get this Evans clean thing.

Wonder how he avoided testing positive when everyone else did

 

[Sciatic]

Mathieu is proably a better big one-day racer than Tadej.
Jonas is better than Tadej on GT's. Last year for example, Jonas had similar advandatge over the peloton (except Tadej) as Tadej had at this Giro. And that TdF field was better than this Giro.
Jonas could've pulled off a similar stunt against this field.

Am - I don’t understand your answer to his questions. He asked to compare Pogacar’s performance to performances of clean cyclists. You mention other stars but we have no inkling of whether they are any more clean (or less clean) than Pogacar? It’s a loaded question in the 1st place.

 

[AmRacer]

Am - I don’t understand your answer to his questions. He asked to compare Pogacar’s performance to performances of clean cyclists. You mention other stars but we have no inkling of whether they are any more clean (or less clean) than Pogacar? It’s a loaded question in the 1st place.

That's my point, who should we compare Poggi with? Caleb Ewan?

 

[will-10]

Wonder how he avoided testing positive when everyone else did

the same way everyone else who didn't go +ve in an era where most doped

 

[Sciatic]

That's my point, who should we compare Poggi with? Caleb Ewan?

We have no way of knowing whether Pogacar, Vingegaard, Evans etc are doping or not. One could intimate well Pogacar’s performance shows he’s doping. But we don’t know that any more than we know if Evan’s was doping. So the question is built on a false premise and false comparison. For instance, let’s say Pogacar, Vingegaard, Froome, Evan’s, etc all doped. In that scenario perhaps Pogacar’s performance stands out simply because he’s a better responder than the others. Or his docs have learned how to titrate dosing in a more sophisticated manner and that explains why he appears to be in another league. That would not mean he’s a “doper” and the other elite guys are not.

ed. Another way to look at it: compared to normal human capacities, ALL of these racers show nearly superhuman performance level in climbing, sustained watts for long durations, and amazing recovery after these efforts.

 

[Andre]

It's a statement disguised as a question to influence beliefs....

 

[zlev11]

the only plausible clean GT winner of the past 35 years is maybe Bernal. a very very strong maybe.

 

[cnort]

the only plausible clean GT winner of the past 35 years is maybe Bernal. a very very strong maybe.

That timespan covers 1990 - LeMond was clean, no? Probably a contentious assumption around here...

I guess it would help to define doping as chemical and or motor-assisted performance against the stated rules. I think more narrowly doping would not include Gruber assist.