• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

Page 170 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Philippe Saudé sticks his head above the parapet - I await the "social media" return of fire
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...ch-ex-pro-sensationally-accuses-tadej-pogacar
“I saw them in the passes that I also climbed. It's amazing what Pogacar did. He's not tired, he goes up climbs laughing," says French ex-pro and former teammate of Laurent Fignon, Philippe Saudé in a sensational allegation of the UAE Team Emirates leader's doping in conversation with RMC. "Soon we will have to put bales of straw on the climbs.” Although he has no proof to back up these allegations, Saude is clear in what he accuses and makes no bones about it either. “Doping has been around since the beginning of time, but these are not the same products they use now,” the experienced Frenchman continues. “And what will happen in the coming years is scary.”

A comment underneath the article lays out the past -
Pogacar’s Team management: Gianetti + Matxin - UAE.

1998 Tour of Romandie, Gianetti quit the race sighting “sickness”. He fell unconscious and was rushed to a hospital. The two doctors who treated Gianetti did several tests on him, but they suspected he had been injected PFCs. PFCs have a tremendous effect of carrying oxygen; it can carry oxygen five times the rate of hemoglobin.

2004-2011 Gianetti and Matxin were team managers of Saunier Duval team. Several riders were sanctioned for doping violations that occurred during his tenure as directeur sportif, including Riccardo Riccò and Juan José Cobo. Another rider, Piepoli, later admitted he was also part of the doping program.

Teammate of GIANETTI, Stéphane Heulot, described the situation in SDP team in 2010: “Doping is so ingrained in certain managers like Gianetti, that they can’t conceive of cycling any other way.”

2011-2014 Gianetti then formed the ‘Geox-TMC’ team: Juan José Cobo won the 2011 Vuelta a España, but in July 2019 he was stripped of this title after being found guilty of doping with EPO. Following this, in July 2014 Dennis Menchov lost his tdf results from 2009, 2010 and 2012 when he was also banned for 2 years for doping.

2014-2016 Gianetti and Matxin were then managers of Lampre-Merida team: In 2014 Diego Ullissi received a suspension for a doping violation. L-M was involved in the Mantova doping investigation by CONI, and 3 riders were implicated, including a 2 year ban for Alessandro Ballan. Michele Scarponi received his second doping suspension whilst at L-M, managed by Gianetti and Matxin. Lampre-Merida got a new sponsor in 2017 and became Team UAE.
 
Philippe Saudé sticks his head above the parapet - I await the "social media" return of fire
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...ch-ex-pro-sensationally-accuses-tadej-pogacar


A comment underneath the article lays out the past -
This time Gianetti is doing things in a most and better profissional way than in the past.

He created a propaganda/communication where his main rider is like a super hero with a good heart, nice for everybody, who gives bottles and shakes hands to kids on climbs, plus the tik toks.


Very different from the past where guys like Ricardo Ricco where looking like bad boys. Those situations created more questions. Now, with this good image around Pogacar, there's no "questions".

Kudos to him, he is doing a great job with the oil money.
 
This time Gianetti is doing things in a most and better profissional way than in the past.

He created a propaganda/communication where his main rider is like a super hero with a good heart, nice for everybody, who gives bottles and shakes hands to kids on climbs, plus the tik toks.


Very different from the past where guys like Ricardo Ricco where looking like bad boys. Those situations created more questions. Now, with this good image around Pogacar, there's no "questions".

Kudos to him, he is doing a great job with the oil money.
Yea, but Pogacar in the initial Giro post-stage interviews seemed like a right prickkkk, until, evidently, PR management came in to save face. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 
This time Gianetti is doing things in a most and better profissional way than in the past.

He created a propaganda/communication where his main rider is like a super hero with a good heart, nice for everybody, who gives bottles and shakes hands to kids on climbs, plus the tik toks.


Very different from the past where guys like Ricardo Ricco where looking like bad boys. Those situations created more questions. Now, with this good image around Pogacar, there's no "questions".

Kudos to him, he is doing a great job with the oil money.
He's doing a great job with the extra cash flow, as is indeed is all of the team management. Money makes a huge difference in so many things. I mean, I would imagine the team also has loads of well funded and researched lawyers as well. Just saying
 
  • Like
Reactions: Froome
This time Gianetti is doing things in a most and better profissional way than in the past.

He created a propaganda/communication where his main rider is like a super hero with a good heart, nice for everybody, who gives bottles and shakes hands to kids on climbs, plus the tik toks.


Very different from the past where guys like Ricardo Ricco where looking like bad boys. Those situations created more questions. Now, with this good image around Pogacar, there's no "questions".

Kudos to him, he is doing a great job with the oil money.
Maybe Pog simply has a better suited personality? That’s not anyone’s fault - or oil money. I find it equally noteworthy that Visma can obviously compete with oil money - medically, legally, marginal gains and PR. Where Vingegaard falls short, Plugge and the Danish media fills the gaps.
 
Maybe Pog simply has a better suited personality? That’s not anyone’s fault - or oil money. I find it equally noteworthy that Visma can obviously compete with oil money - medically, legally, marginal gains and PR. Where Vingegaard falls short, Plugge and the Danish media fills the gaps.
He's only a good actor, except when he becomes unnerved, like when he lost Flanders and lashed out on a rider who did nothing wrong or in the first post-stage Giro interviews, when he was very ungracious to the interviewer. I'm certain Gianetti then told him to put on his good grandson act. Let's hope at the Tour the doping questions arrise in the press conferences, so we can read Tadej's facial expressions and body language.
 
Last edited:
This time Gianetti is doing things in a most and better profissional way than in the past.

He created a propaganda/communication where his main rider is like a super hero with a good heart, nice for everybody, who gives bottles and shakes hands to kids on climbs, plus the tik toks.


Very different from the past where guys like Ricardo Ricco where looking like bad boys. Those situations created more questions. Now, with this good image around Pogacar, there's no "questions".

Kudos to him, he is doing a great job with the oil money.
Ricco a couple years ago said that he would have won Giro and Tour if he was more mature. His 07-08 seasons were so good (2nd in Lombardia, 2nd and 6th in Giro+3 stages, 2 stages in Tour among other notable results before getting caught)
“I was a talented little bully, an idiot who threw away money and a career. I’f I’d managed my anger and my ability with the maturity I have now, I’d have won the Tour and the Giro. But my destiny was clear: we don’t get to decide when we grow up,”
 
Apr 29, 2019
14
16
3,560
Visit site
I feel like the next step is to just give up on anti-doping entirely...
Isn't that what a lot of other high profile, big money sports have done? Or maybe it's that they never started looking under stones in the first place. Imagine an alternative universe where Tommy Simpson didn't die - things might have turned out very differently in terms of dope testing and control in cycling.
 
LOL @ users that think Pogacar is faking his happy go lucky personality or other conspirancy theories about Matxin setting up a propaganda program. Of course this is not incompatible with a fiercely competitive stand.

But Pogacar's really enjoys racing. And his personality, not his public persona, rightly fits with the following generational change: once you had the bad boys but with the social networks all is too scrutinized too quickly with emoticons so that grudges don't have time to be created. He is rife with the charisma of a kid because he is one but he is also very, very mature in his objectives.

Finally, I beileve that all the big 6 are doping.
I also believe that Pogacar is the biggest talent of them all.
But I have doubts that he's the best responder to doping.
Point being that they are too big to get caught.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Salvarani and jono
LOL @ users that think Pogacar is faking his happy go lucky personality or other conspirancy theories about Matxin setting up a propaganda program. Of course this is not incompatible with a fiercely competitive stand.

But Pogacar's really enjoys racing. And his personality, not his public persona, rightly fits with the following generational change: once you had the bad boys but with the social networks all is too scrutinized too quickly with emoticons so that grudges don't have time to be created. He is rife with the charisma of a kid because he is one but he is also very, very mature in his objectives.

Finally, I beileve that all the big 6 are doping.
I also believe that Pogacar is the biggest talent of them all.
But I have doubts that he's the best responder to doping.
Point being that they are too big to get caught.
Pogi's character is a constructed persona. Gianetti learned from the "bad boy" Ricco experience, so Tadej needs to come across as whiter than snow. But every once and a while he naturally slips, deviates from the media constructed persona, and reveals a darker side. So you believe Vingegaard is the best responder. Yet at their level I'd say you can only raise hematacrit a few percentage points in either case, so response is less the issue, but VO2 max and recovery rates.
 
I wouldn’t call it a conspiracy theory to say public image is paid close attention to and even if he has the right natural personality they still want to leverage it to keep doping talk away. Even aside from doping, with all the buzz of him being too greedy recently, the happy-go-lucky persona helps balance those vibes, and I don’t blame them.

All doping is conspiracy after all, so maybe being a conspiracy theorist isn’t such a bad thing. Unless anyone actually believes these guys are clean.
 
While it's silly to say it's a completely manufactured persona, it's also to ignore how easily it captivates a lot of fans for very superficial reasons and how most fans are very unwilling to ask questions about his performances because of it.

Contrast the reaction to Vingegaards Tour ITT to Pogacar's entire season right now.

I don't doubt that Pogacar is nice, good natured dude, but he absolutely leans into it for max PR value to build a brand. Guy smiles at the camera any chance he gets.
 
Speaking about Teddy: PR definitely is a factor here but I also believe he's a good natured guy in general (which can be also deduced from interviews with some other guys), who obviously has some darker side (but who doesn't?). Obviously being generally liked potentially helps for the future (regarding many things, doping included), therefore PR is also present.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cookster15
While it's silly to say it's a completely manufactured persona, it's also to ignore how easily it captivates a lot of fans for very superficial reasons and how most fans are very unwilling to ask questions about his performances because of it.

Contrast the reaction to Vingegaards Tour ITT to Pogacar's entire season right now.

I don't doubt that Pogacar is nice, good natured dude, but he absolutely leans into it for max PR value to build a brand. Guy smiles at the camera any chance he gets.

You want the same level of scrutiny for Pogacar dominating against DFM and Geraint Thomas nearing retirement (and Landa and co in Catalunya, Bardet in Liege etc) and Vingegaard dominating against Pogacar?

I think I will not take any 'weak field' type arguments from you seriously ever again.
 
You want the same level of scrutiny for Pogacar dominating against DFM and Geraint Thomas nearing retirement (and Landa and co in Catalunya, Bardet in Liege etc) and Vingegaard dominating against Pogacar?

I think I will not take any 'weak field' type arguments from you seriously ever again.
No it's about the complete picture. Not any single race.

Climber winning De Ronde? "OMG it's amazing"

Winning Strade with 80km never in doubt solo "OMG it's amazing".


The one time some eyebrows have been raised at Pogacar was after the LPDBF ITT, which barely makes the top 10 of WTF performances by Pogacar.

Similar thing with Van der Poel. Does the most ridiculous *** and nobody asks a question.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pastronef
Pogi's character is a constructed persona. Gianetti learned from the "bad boy" Ricco experience, so Tadej needs to come across as whiter than snow. But every once and a while he naturally slips, deviates from the media constructed persona, and reveals a darker side. So you believe Vingegaard is the best responder. Yet at their level I'd say you can only raise hematacrit a few percentage points in either case, so response is less the issue, but VO2 max and recovery rates.
That's a strong statement with no evidence whatsoever besides your own bias.

Is this what's left for Pogacar's haters? To resort to the urgenct of unraveling the "dark side" of his character that only a well-tight and paid program has kept under control? To assert that all the friendly behavior we see in social media, in interviews and on the road are all by design?

You are not even wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Salvarani
That's a strong statement with no evidence whatsoever besides your own bias.

Is this what's left for Pogacar's haters? To resort to the urgenct of unraveling the "dark side" of his character that only a well-tight and paid program has kept under control? To assert that all the friendly behavior we see in social media, in interviews and on the road are all by design?

You are not even wrong.
I've presented evidence. Go look up the interviews with Stefano Rizzato if you are able. All the friendly behavior is to win the crowd and certainly by design with Gianetti (Ricco was a lesson well learned). Talk about bias, you would have him be the Christ.
 
I've presented evidence. Go look up the interviews with Stefano Rizzato if you are able. All the friendly behavior is to win the crowd and certainly by design with Gianetti (Ricco was a lesson well learned). Talk about bias, you would have him be the Christ.
What evidence? :tearsofjoy:
You should be and you can be better that this. There's a degree of crackpot when someone considers that for a rider to be nice, friendly and straightforward suffices to uncover a PR plot paid by oil money.

If you really think - which I'm sure you don't - that I would have Pogar as Jesus Christ you shouldn't even be discussing the issue, as you would find it pointless to discuss what are matters of faith. It's much harder though to not invent a strawman to depict your opponents and acknowledge that although Pogacar is friendly, that happens to be in line with a much more scrutinized, mediatic and public-friendly cycling environment of nowadays.