Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Rou]

He probably just didn't have to push his Tour 2023 numbers and didn't want to, to remain as fresh as possible for the Tour.

According to Portoleau on Foscagno Pogacar pushed more watts than Vingegaard on Tourmalet last year in the TDF (Tourmalet for Vingo was better than Marie Blanque and Domancy). So this narrative that Pog's TDF level of last year was better than the Giro is just wrong. Pog also admitted that his form in the Tour last year was not so good.

 

[Extinction]

According to Portoleau on Foscagno Pogacar pushed more watts than Vingegaard on Tourmalet last year in the TDF (Tourmalet for Vingo was better than Marie Blanque and Domancy). So this narrative that Pog's TDF level of last year was better than the Giro is just wrong. Pog also admitted that his form in the Tour last year was not so good.

So what was the conflicting idea that Pog's form at the Giro was inferior to that of Tour 2023 based on?

 

[solo80k]

If Vingegaard doesn't reach his 2023 level, Pogačar's 2023 level will most likely be more than enough to win (unless he totally bonks on one stage again).

We should have a certain suspicion about Pog's BadDay, shouldn't we? You can't have too many blood bags (like stage after stage), unless you want to explode. But I was worth trying imo

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He went 100 % on Foscagno when he attacked, otherwise he wouldn't catch Quintana (on Mottolino he could ease off again).

Plus TTs - he went full gas for about 2/3 of the 1st one and probably the whole 2nd.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

We should have a certain suspicion about Pog's BadDay, shouldn't we? You can't have too many blood bags (like stage after stage), unless you want to explode. But I was worth trying imo

Sure, there's definitely a chance that the bad day was clinic related, just like his fast improvement after he was dropped hard on Marie-Blanque.

Whether Visma were being more careful throughout the race or simply got lucky, we don't know. One thing we do know is, that after winning two GTs through quite impressive/ridiculous time trial performances, they haven't really been able to replicate them since. I take that as a good sign, for now, since we don't know that we're going to experience in this year's Tour.

 

[Nick2413]

One thing we do know is, that after winning two GTs through quite impressive/ridiculous time trial performances, they haven't really been able to replicate them since. I take that as a good sign, for now, since we don't know that we're going to experience in this year's Tour.

They haven’t needed to replicate them since Giro/Tour, but if the need arises again surely they’ll do it. You could even argue Kuss had a ridiculous TT in Vuelta, but maybe we just haven’t seen him go all out enough.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

They haven’t needed to replicate them since Giro/Tour, but if the need arises again surely they’ll do it. You could even argue Kuss had a ridiculous TT in Vuelta, but maybe we just haven’t seen him go all out enough.

It was also a different kind of time trial, of course, and positioned earlier in the race. Vingegaard was obviously not in the same shape as during the Tour either.

Jorgenson has performed very well this year, so it will be interesting to see if he's able to do the same in the Tour.

 

[Salvarani]

After Oropa they start comparing him to Pantani, he got pretty angry at First but the next interview he start praising Pantani and the fans. It was like 5 min between these 2 interviews

Could just be him misinterpreting it and then getting an explanation of what the comparison was about, since it was mainly about how they similarly won on Oropa and how they were/are both adored by fans.

Pantani is as much associated to both the "good" side and the "bad" side of him, much to his own doing, but I can see Pog with the adrenalin still running after the stage maybe misunderstanding the question or what the interviewer was saying.

Since a lot backlash towards Vinge and Pog from haters/trolls is "they are going as fast as Pantani and blah blah blah". Im sure he has seen it or heard it and that being compared to him is to say "you are doped up". Who would not get "angry" at thinking someone was saying that to your face without evidence?

Either way, as I said, it probably wasnt the intention from the interviewer and probably Pog got that explained to him. Saying it was because of their entertaining style, attacking and fans cheering him on. Of course, he has no problem after being told that.

Just a misunderstanding. Hilarious to some people playing psychologists and making analysis about his personality. They just sound like haters... hating on the popular kid at school, when in reality it is just their own insecurities coming to light.

 

[Froome]

According to Portoleau on Foscagno Pogacar pushed more watts than Vingegaard on Tourmalet last year in the TDF (Tourmalet for Vingo was better than Marie Blanque and Domancy). So this narrative that Pog's TDF level of last year was better than the Giro is just wrong. Pog also admitted that his form in the Tour last year was not so good.

Honestly, in my opinion it doesn't make sense just count since the start of the attack.

The performance should count since the start of every climb, because if you do the first part in a low pace, obviously the rider will push more watts in the final part of the climb when he attacks, because he is more fresh.

Besides that, the kilojoule during all the stage is an important area.

Nevertheless Pogacar did 6.15 w/kg on Tourmalet during 36 min and 41 s according to Portoleau, and Portoleau didn’t make an estimation for Passo Foscagno, but according to ammattipyoraily/watts in cycling he did 6/6.1 w/kg in 35 minutes, and 6.7/6.8 w/kg after the attack in 13 minutes, similar with the last 4 km on Tourmalet.


He also didn't needed to be strong in the Giro, like in the Tour to win.

I think he was much stronger in the Tour 2023 and he improved last year, if we compare his level between the Tour 2022 and the Tour 2023.

 

[solo80k]

So Pogi will be quite happy with his TdF team. Yates and Almeida should be enough to destroy most of potential rivals with 6.3 W/kg uphill drill. UAE wants revenge, that's for sure. 🤗

 

[Froome]

So Pogi will be quite happy with his TdF team. Yates and Almeida should be enough to destroy most of potential rivals with 6.3 W/kg uphill drill. UAE wants revenge, that's for sure. 🤗

I don't think they will race like that. I think they will attack with all the best riders and trying to do a trap to Visma.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't think they will race like that. I think they will attack with all the best riders and trying to do a trap to Visma.

They will try making traps only if they feel the competition is as strong as Pog so tactical advantage can matter. If they sense it's not the case they will drill the tempo to tire and distance Pog's rivals.

 

[solo80k]

I don't think they will race like that. I think they will attack with all the best riders and trying to do a trap to Visma.

I think they will try to ride exactly like that. UAE will probably try to destroy the field early in the race. Similar to Sky with AX3 but with much bigger gaps. Everyone (maybe except Jonas?) will be hanging for the dear life. I'll be surprised if they won't try to test and potentially bury Jonas and Roglic already on stage 4 blowing the race aparat on Galibier (not ideal climb but still a serious one) using some frantic, alien pacing.

 

[Ripper]

I think they will try to ride exactly like that. UAE will probably try to destroy the field early in the race. Similar to Sky with AX3 but with much bigger gaps. Everyone (maybe except Jonas?) will be hanging for the dear life. I'll be surprised if they won't try to test and potentially bury Jonas and Roglic already on stage 4 blowing the race aparat on Galibier (not ideal climb but still a serious one) using some frantic, alien pacing.

Should be entertaining if they do. My guess is the French will be less forgiving of ongoing alien-ness after the Giro. If it is a blow out early, they'll root for the underdog and start booing others.

 

[Blobs]

They seem to have Pog'ed up the rest of the team, and look ready to go for the podium sweep.

 

[meat puppet]

I think they will try to ride exactly like that. UAE will probably try to destroy the field early in the race. Similar to Sky with AX3 but with much bigger gaps. Everyone (maybe except Jonas?) will be hanging for the dear life. I'll be surprised if they won't try to test and potentially bury Jonas and Roglic already on stage 4 blowing the race aparat on Galibier (not ideal climb but still a serious one) using some frantic, alien pacing.

Indeed. Per an old movie:

"Forget it man and get with the countdown. Shake this square world and blast off to Kicksville"

 

[zlev11]

the ol' Gianetti 1-2 today. like a way less cool version of Piepoli and Cobo.

 

[noob]

Almeida seemingly got a new coctail last year but this year it seems even stronger :O

 

[Extinction]

Should be entertaining if they do. My guess is the French will be less forgiving of ongoing alien-ness after the Giro. If it is a blow out early, they'll root for the underdog and start booing others.

But will the journos start with the hard questions in the post-race conferences? Will l'Equipe come up with title pages in bold black letters: Être qui vient d'une autre planète. Extraterrestre!

 

[Cookster15]

Seems almost personal now between Gianetti and Plugge. Overall team strength has been an obvious advantage to Richard Plugge's team at the 2022 and 2023 TdF eg WvA on Hautacam. Gianetti says I can beat you at that too and the Tour de Suisse is the dress rehearsal.

We are seeing the next phase of the arms race kicked off when Gianetti stole the 2020 TdF right out of Plugge's grasp.

 

[Extinction]

Seems almost personal now between Gianetti and Plugge. Overall team strength has been an obvious advantage to Richard Plugge's team at the 2022 and 2023 TdF eg WvA on Hautacam. Gianetti says I can beat you at that too and the Dauphine is the dress rehearsal.

We are seeing the next phase of the arms race kicked off when Gianetti stole the 2020 TdF right out of Plugge's grasp.

Tour de Suisse no?

 

[Cookster15]

Tour de Swiss no?

Of course, Yates and Almeida. I notice people in PRR forum saying how funny it is, obvious clinic references. I just put words to the obvious.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Seems almost personal now between Gianetti and Plugge. Overall team strength has been an obvious advantage to Richard Plugge's team at the 2022 and 2023 TdF eg WvA on Hautacam. Gianetti says I can beat you at that too and the Tour de Suisse is the dress rehearsal.

We are seeing the next phase of the arms race kicked off when Gianetti stole the 2020 TdF right out of Plugge's grasp.

If we’re talking just the Tour and not the seasons as a whole. 2022 was far and away in Jumbo’s advantage especially with everything that happened to UAE during that edition. 2023 was a lot closer with Jumbo looking stronger at first but UAE came back and started knocking Jumbo down till the second rest day. Vingegaard was just substantially stronger in the third week which eliminated any advantage UAE had as a team in addition to Pog’s cracking.

 

[Extinction]

UAE just put the smack down. Gianetti, his royal slitherness, and boys just got more cash from the sheik to invest in a system, the likes of which we haven't seen. Not even in the days of Deutsche Telecom, Once, US Postal and then Sky. In the arms race/tech/performance science war, UAE needs to destroy Visma, which last year seemed to be adults playing with children at the GTs. Well, they may well do that at this years Tour. Never has doping been so professionally orchestrated or so undetectably covert, along with everything else. And now everybody wants a pic with Wonderboy, especially big time ex-dopers and UCI commissioners, as we can see here at 5:29, 6:09 and again at 7:25.

View: https://youtu.be/A_gmpwmFFrw?si=wUQsqQc8ENORmXMH

 

[zlev11]

Seems almost personal now between Gianetti and Plugge. Overall team strength has been an obvious advantage to Richard Plugge's team at the 2022 and 2023 TdF eg WvA on Hautacam. Gianetti says I can beat you at that too and the Tour de Suisse is the dress rehearsal.

We are seeing the next phase of the arms race kicked off when Gianetti stole the 2020 TdF right out of Plugge's grasp.

Gianetti saw Visma sweep the grand tours and 1-2-3 the Vuelta and decided to try to 1-2-3 the TDF as a one up