Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Froome]

So Pogi will be quite happy with his TdF team. Yates and Almeida should be enough to destroy most of potential rivals with 6.3 W/kg uphill drill. UAE wants revenge, that's for sure. 🤗

I don't think they will race like that. I think they will attack with all the best riders and trying to do a trap to Visma.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't think they will race like that. I think they will attack with all the best riders and trying to do a trap to Visma.

They will try making traps only if they feel the competition is as strong as Pog so tactical advantage can matter. If they sense it's not the case they will drill the tempo to tire and distance Pog's rivals.

 

[solo80k]

I don't think they will race like that. I think they will attack with all the best riders and trying to do a trap to Visma.

I think they will try to ride exactly like that. UAE will probably try to destroy the field early in the race. Similar to Sky with AX3 but with much bigger gaps. Everyone (maybe except Jonas?) will be hanging for the dear life. I'll be surprised if they won't try to test and potentially bury Jonas and Roglic already on stage 4 blowing the race aparat on Galibier (not ideal climb but still a serious one) using some frantic, alien pacing.

 

[Ripper]

I think they will try to ride exactly like that. UAE will probably try to destroy the field early in the race. Similar to Sky with AX3 but with much bigger gaps. Everyone (maybe except Jonas?) will be hanging for the dear life. I'll be surprised if they won't try to test and potentially bury Jonas and Roglic already on stage 4 blowing the race aparat on Galibier (not ideal climb but still a serious one) using some frantic, alien pacing.

Should be entertaining if they do. My guess is the French will be less forgiving of ongoing alien-ness after the Giro. If it is a blow out early, they'll root for the underdog and start booing others.

 

[Blobs]

They seem to have Pog'ed up the rest of the team, and look ready to go for the podium sweep.

 

[meat puppet]

I think they will try to ride exactly like that. UAE will probably try to destroy the field early in the race. Similar to Sky with AX3 but with much bigger gaps. Everyone (maybe except Jonas?) will be hanging for the dear life. I'll be surprised if they won't try to test and potentially bury Jonas and Roglic already on stage 4 blowing the race aparat on Galibier (not ideal climb but still a serious one) using some frantic, alien pacing.

Indeed. Per an old movie:

"Forget it man and get with the countdown. Shake this square world and blast off to Kicksville"

 

[zlev11]

the ol' Gianetti 1-2 today. like a way less cool version of Piepoli and Cobo.

 

[noob]

Almeida seemingly got a new coctail last year but this year it seems even stronger :O

 

[Extinction]

Should be entertaining if they do. My guess is the French will be less forgiving of ongoing alien-ness after the Giro. If it is a blow out early, they'll root for the underdog and start booing others.

But will the journos start with the hard questions in the post-race conferences? Will l'Equipe come up with title pages in bold black letters: Être qui vient d'une autre planète. Extraterrestre!

 

[Cookster15]

Seems almost personal now between Gianetti and Plugge. Overall team strength has been an obvious advantage to Richard Plugge's team at the 2022 and 2023 TdF eg WvA on Hautacam. Gianetti says I can beat you at that too and the Tour de Suisse is the dress rehearsal.

We are seeing the next phase of the arms race kicked off when Gianetti stole the 2020 TdF right out of Plugge's grasp.

 

[Extinction]

Seems almost personal now between Gianetti and Plugge. Overall team strength has been an obvious advantage to Richard Plugge's team at the 2022 and 2023 TdF eg WvA on Hautacam. Gianetti says I can beat you at that too and the Dauphine is the dress rehearsal.

We are seeing the next phase of the arms race kicked off when Gianetti stole the 2020 TdF right out of Plugge's grasp.

Tour de Suisse no?

 

[Cookster15]

Tour de Swiss no?

Of course, Yates and Almeida. I notice people in PRR forum saying how funny it is, obvious clinic references. I just put words to the obvious.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Seems almost personal now between Gianetti and Plugge. Overall team strength has been an obvious advantage to Richard Plugge's team at the 2022 and 2023 TdF eg WvA on Hautacam. Gianetti says I can beat you at that too and the Tour de Suisse is the dress rehearsal.

We are seeing the next phase of the arms race kicked off when Gianetti stole the 2020 TdF right out of Plugge's grasp.

If we’re talking just the Tour and not the seasons as a whole. 2022 was far and away in Jumbo’s advantage especially with everything that happened to UAE during that edition. 2023 was a lot closer with Jumbo looking stronger at first but UAE came back and started knocking Jumbo down till the second rest day. Vingegaard was just substantially stronger in the third week which eliminated any advantage UAE had as a team in addition to Pog’s cracking.

 

[Extinction]

UAE just put the smack down. Gianetti, his royal slitherness, and boys just got more cash from the sheik to invest in a system, the likes of which we haven't seen. Not even in the days of Deutsche Telecom, Once, US Postal and then Sky. In the arms race/tech/performance science war, UAE needs to destroy Visma, which last year seemed to be adults playing with children at the GTs. Well, they may well do that at this years Tour. Never has doping been so professionally orchestrated or so undetectably covert, along with everything else. And now everybody wants a pic with Wonderboy, especially big time ex-dopers and UCI commissioners, as we can see here at 5:29, 6:09 and again at 7:25.

View: https://youtu.be/A_gmpwmFFrw?si=wUQsqQc8ENORmXMH

 

[zlev11]

Seems almost personal now between Gianetti and Plugge. Overall team strength has been an obvious advantage to Richard Plugge's team at the 2022 and 2023 TdF eg WvA on Hautacam. Gianetti says I can beat you at that too and the Tour de Suisse is the dress rehearsal.

We are seeing the next phase of the arms race kicked off when Gianetti stole the 2020 TdF right out of Plugge's grasp.

Gianetti saw Visma sweep the grand tours and 1-2-3 the Vuelta and decided to try to 1-2-3 the TDF as a one up

 

[shadowrider]

I don't think they will race like that. I think they will attack with all the best riders and trying to do a trap to Visma.

They should do. But they will not. Unless Pogacar shows weakness from week one. Jumbo-Visma did not in the past, as other dominant teams didn't do. They just don't want to take risks, burn one or two of their superdomestiques or isolate the leader. Which is silly of course with ultradominant teams as Jumbo-Visma the previous years (not this season) or UAE (especially this season). Jumbo-Visma tried it once, like a pinprick, in the Vuelta last year. Sending Kuss in a breakaway quite early in the Vuelta.To their surprise, the other teams with favorits allowed Kuss to take a minutes lead. To their own surprise and that of the other teams, Kuss had not a breakdown or wasn't fading later on. Which led to uncomfortable situations and frustrations for Vingegaard and especially Roglic. Not allowed to attack several times, in order to not destroy their leader "by accident". The result was that Roglic left the team, and that VLAB will not be the strongest team, nor have the best riders in t he upcoming Tour. Also due to bad luck of course (crash Vingegaard).

 

[Netserk]

If we’re talking just the Tour and not the seasons as a whole. 2022 was far and away in Jumbo’s advantage especially with everything that happened to UAE during that edition.

Rogla abandoned with two fractured vertebrae.
Kruijswijk abandoned with fractured scapula and collarbone.

 

[Red Rick]

Jumbo's 2 TdF wins have largely been down to Vingegaard simply outperforming Pogacar. Similarly, Jumbo were hardly dominant in the 2023 Giro. We simulataneously see Roglic mocked for 'only beating washed up Thomas by 14 seconds' while at the same time it's an illustration of their absurd dominance?

The only real crazy race by Jumbo was the Vuelta, and in that the only real overperformance was by Kuss.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Rogla abandoned with two fractured vertebrae.
Kruijswijk abandoned with fractured scapula and collarbone.

I never said Jumbo didn’t have issues, UAE just had more of them.

UAE finished the race with 4 riders counting Pogacar, Jumbo 5 counting Vingegaard.
UAE lost two riders first before stages 8 and 10, Jumbo lost their first two before and during stage 15.
Even with the fractured vertebrae Roglic was invaluable on stage 11 helping set up Vingegaard.
UAE lost two riders from stage 16 with an OTL and DNS the next day.
Visms had a DNS stage 20.

Of the remaining riders McNulty was missing bar the final week, Hirschi did next to nothing, and Berg helped when he could. While Jumbo had the more severe injuries, UAE were ravished by sickness that knocked their performance.

 

[Netserk]

Majka was the only valuable asset they lost, and they had the best team the day after he abandoned.

Jumbo would have been even more overpowered if both teams were at full strength throughout the race, thus what happened during the race helped UAE on net. Rogla being injured had greater impact on the race than all injuries and illness in UAE.

 

[Froome]

I never said Jumbo didn’t have issues, UAE just had more of them.

UAE finished the race with 4 riders counting Pogacar, Jumbo 5 counting Vingegaard.
UAE lost two riders first before stages 8 and 10, Jumbo lost their first two before and during stage 15.
Even with the fractured vertebrae Roglic was invaluable on stage 11 helping set up Vingegaard.
UAE lost two riders from stage 16 with an OTL and DNS the next day.
Visms had a DNS stage 20.

Of the remaining riders McNulty was missing bar the final week, Hirschi did next to nothing, and Berg helped when he could. While Jumbo had the more severe injuries, UAE were ravished by sickness that knocked their performance.

It wouldn't matter anyways. Mcnulty did the job of 6 guys on the stage of Peyragudes, and Pogacar could not make the difference.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It wouldn't matter anyways. Mcnulty did the job of 6 guys on the stage of Peyragudes, and Pogacar could not make the difference.

Vingo was too strong to be dropped then. OTOH Pog had almost no team in 2020 and won the race. However, the team could matter if someone is equally strong to Pog giving the Slovenian tactical advantage or helpful pull in a moment of crisis (or just to kill Vingo before he regains power!) so most likely if it turns out that Pog feels the Giro in his legs.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Majka was the only valuable asset they lost, and they had the best team the day after he abandoned.

Jumbo would have been even more overpowered if both teams were at full strength throughout the race, thus what happened during the race helped UAE on net. Rogla being injured had greater impact on the race than all injuries and illness in UAE.

Do you think Roglic would have been a domestique for Vingegaard or a potential hindrance and help to Pogacar if he didn’t crash? I think what we were truly robbed of is Roglic getting injured because that could have changed the dynamic and maybe we would have gotten the 2023 Vuelta earlier or a 2012 Tour 2.0. The crash made Roglic go all in for Vingegaard to help set up the slam dunk. I don’t see Roglic working for Vingegaard when a Tour win is within reach and Vinge finished second the year before.

 

[Red Rick]

Do you think Roglic would have been a domestique for Vingegaard or a potential hindrance and help to Pogacar if he didn’t crash? I think what we were truly robbed of is Roglic getting injured because that could have changed the dynamic and maybe we would have gotten the 2023 Vuelta earlier or a 2012 Tour 2.0. The crash made Roglic go all in for Vingegaard to help set up the slam dunk. I don’t see Roglic working for Vingegaard when a Tour win is within reach and Vinge finished second the year before.

There's nothing to indicate they wouldn't try the same strategy if Roglic doesn't crash and break his back.

 

[SHAD0W93]

There's nothing to indicate they wouldn't try the same strategy if Roglic doesn't crash and break his back.

2023 Vuelta begs to differ. Do you really think Roglic would be fine handing the Tour away when he has a chance to win?