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Ripper

Ripper

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So if doping and innate talent could supposedly help Jonah the Fish win this year's TdF, then the same formula could be applied to Todly's recovery from the Giro.

I'm wondering if toddy will
  • Start super hot and fade later in the race, which would seem to fit with somewhat normal human capabilities
  • Start slow and get stronger, sort of like The Fish last year in the Vuelta, or
  • Just thermonuclear the whole thing, which I guess is somewhat expected
 
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Extinction

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Ripper said:
So if doping and innate talent could supposedly help Jonah the Fish win this year's TdF, then the same formula could be applied to Todly's recovery from the Giro.

I'm wondering if toddy will
  • Start super hot and fade later in the race, which would seem to fit with somewhat normal human capabilities
  • Start slow and get stronger, sort of like The Fish last year in the Vuelta, or
  • Just thermonuclear the whole thing, which I guess is somewhat expected
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Probably option 3, but then the French press might also start to become difficult.
 
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CleanCiclismo

CleanCiclismo

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Gwbert said:
Surely his greed will get him in the end? The Giro was a horror show.
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Only in cycling you see someone calling a rider who wants to win more than a few stages greedy. If you're the best shouldn't you prove it? Maybe other teams should... I dunno, start racing more tactically to counter him? At least half of his stages at the giro were given to him on a plate.
 
CleanCiclismo

CleanCiclismo

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meat puppet said:
Yeah. Surely tactics would have saved the others in the Strade and all the other long range raids. They should also try not to suck as bad.
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They would. Sometimes you have to work with others to negate someone that's better than you. When Pog attacked in Strade there was no proper organisation behind. In the Giro how many times was his team tested? They had no problems controlling because there was nobody dangerous up the road. Other teams complained that Pog was winning too much, but did they try anything? In the last proper stage when Pellizzari was alone in the break, why weren't other top climbers there? Why was say Bardet back in the peloton protecting his top 10? He has a grand tour podium ffs. Why didn't Nario go into that break? Because he was protecting Rubio and his 7th place against the mighty Jan Hirt. It's silly things like that which "gifted" a lot of the stages to Pog. If you look back he only properly went for 4 stages. Those were 1, 2, the stage where he chased after Nairo and stage 20. He won 3 of them. Ineos were being idiots pacing the whole stage 2 for UAE instead of just letting UAE burn their riders. There were a few other stages where UAE was able to "rest" while the others did their work for them. It's a crazy thought but what if you don't do that? It felt like other teams were there just participating rather than racing most of the time.
 
Extinction

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CleanCiclismo said:
They would. Sometimes you have to work with others to negate someone that's better than you. When Pog attacked in Strade there was no proper organisation behind. In the Giro how many times was his team tested? They had no problems controlling because there was nobody dangerous up the road. Other teams complained that Pog was winning too much, but did they try anything? In the last proper stage when Pellizzari was alone in the break, why weren't other top climbers there? Why was say Bardet back in the peloton protecting his top 10? He has a grand tour podium ffs. Why didn't Nario go into that break? Because he was protecting Rubio and his 7th place against the mighty Jan Hirt. It's silly things like that which "gifted" a lot of the stages to Pog. If you look back he only properly went for 4 stages. Those were 1, 2, the stage where he chased after Nairo and stage 20. He won 3 of them. Ineos were being idiots pacing the whole stage 2 for UAE instead of just letting UAE burn their riders. There were a few other stages where UAE was able to "rest" while the others did their work for them. It's a crazy thought but what if you don't do that? It felt like other teams were there just participating rather than racing most of the time.
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No, Pog simply was on another level. When he attacked he killed them. It wasn't as if the chasers behind didn't work together. They were dead.
 
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Tim Cahill

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In two minds about the Giro and greediness. If he is clean then it is a completely fine and acceptable thing to do, go ahead and win as many stages as you want, if they can't beat you then that's their problem. If he is doping then it is unbelievably foolish.

There is a misunderstanding floating around about 'gifting' or letting stages go I think, derived from the Contador/Tiralongo dynamic, which is a pretty rare occurrence in cycling, but it isn't quite accurate. The subtext around the discourse of letting the smaller teams and lesser riders have their day isn't about making friends, it's about not making enemies, whether tomorrow on the road or in ten years when you're sat in front of a Grand Jury. Sky understood this and learnt the lessons from Armstrong, win your big race then *** off. Don't draw unwanted attention to yourself.

I think Gianetti has lost the plot personally, seen Jumbo going for it and decided it's open season, dialectical doping. But I could always be wrong and they've found some legal wonder drug that makes him look like he's racing against infants.
 
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Tim Cahill said:
In two minds about the Giro and greediness. If he is clean then it is a completely fine and acceptable thing to do, go ahead and win as many stages as you want, if they can't beat you then that's their problem. If he is doping then it is unbelievably foolish.

There is a misunderstanding floating around about 'gifting' or letting stages go I think, derived from the Contador/Tiralongo dynamic, which is a pretty rare occurrence in cycling, but it isn't quite accurate. The subtext around the discourse of letting the smaller teams and lesser riders have their day isn't about making friends, it's about not making enemies, whether tomorrow on the road or in ten years when you're sat in front of a Grand Jury. Sky understood this and learnt the lessons from Armstrong, win your big race then *** off. Don't draw unwanted attention to yourself.

I think Gianetti has lost the plot personally, seen Jumbo going for it and decided it's open season, dialectical doping. But I could always be wrong and they've found some legal wonder drug that makes him look like he's racing against infants.
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More or less you should be prudent in measuring the extent of your success against the pitfalls of incurring the envy of your rivals in a cycling that has always (at least since the EPO era) been done at two speeds. Also because national rivalries and their respective journalists within interteam dynamics (everybody wants a piece of the pie), could create unpleasant outcomes if tyranny becomes unacceptable to wider sponsorship investment concerns.
 
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