Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[ppanther92]

Lmao, only fools can still believe the dude is clean. He destroyed Galibier's record by 1:30 and then rode insanely on the descent, pushing continuously, no fatigue in sight. That after a full Giro.

Vingegaard was 7s slower right out of ICU

No, but seriously. Ofc this peloton is not clean. Just came here in this part of the forum after listening to Ullrich and Eisel on Eurosport saying "this generation has nothing to do with "their" times". After being a cycling fan for over 20 years now, I am not that naive. But guess they also have to say that. Ullrich finally getting back on the scene and public media, Eisel still involved in the sport as director.

 

[Froome]

Vingegaard was 7s slower right out of ICU

No, but seriously. Ofc this peloton is not clean. Just came here in this part of the forum after listening to Ullrich and Eisel on Eurosport saying "this generation has nothing to do with "their" times". After being a cycling fan for over 20 years now, I am not that naive. But guess they also have to say that. Ullrich finally getting back on the scene and public media, Eisel still involved in the sport as director.

Obviously the peloton is not clean, and the top riders are taking serious things, but today it wasn't something ridiculous.

 

[pelotonIQ]

The Tour will be won by minutes, not seconds. - I think it's the key.

JV is probably preparing 1-2 stages with big blood bags and other enhancers. They have very strong "base" and daily "routine", but 2 stages will make a huge difference. If I'm to choose - Plateau de Beille stage 15 + one another stage (19-20-21). Pog and Jonas will be very equal during the rest of the race. And maybe Pog will be able to make some minor damage mid-race, but the final showdown will be devastating for UAE.

You're fantasizing from previous years. This tour the Visma domestiques are not even close to UAE strength, they will never be able to isolate Pogacar.

 

[solo80k]

You're fantasizing from previous years. This tour the Visma domestiques are not even close to UAE strength, they will never be able to isolate Pogacar.

I think Pog will be in yellow until stage 19, but I expect a lot of magic in the last 3 stages from Visma. They just need to keep Pogacar within 2:30-3 minutes to have a chance to turn the odds in their favour. And Jonas will need to find his inner mutant as well.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Vingegaard was 7s slower right out of ICU

No, but seriously. Ofc this peloton is not clean. Just came here in this part of the forum after listening to Ullrich and Eisel on Eurosport saying "this generation has nothing to do with "their" times". After being a cycling fan for over 20 years now, I am not that naive. But guess they also have to say that. Ullrich finally getting back on the scene and public media, Eisel still involved in the sport as director.

1:30 faster than a Quintana who was in the break all day long on a much harder stage, later in the Tour, with 40°C in the valley at the start. IMO the gap is underrated. That said, the Purito speacial at the top of the climb was radioactive.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think Pog will be in yellow until stage 19, but I expect a lot of magic in the last 3 stages from Visma. They just need to keep Pogacar within 2:30-3 minutes to have a chance to turn the odds in their favour. And Jonas will need to find his inner mutant as well.

This scenario (JV smashing the last weekend vs weakening Pogacar at the end of his double GT campaign) would be more realistic if Vingo had had a normal preparation.

 

[meat puppet]

Week three will show that also training methods evolve: two months in a bacta tank > normal prep

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Week three will show that also training methods evolve: two months in a bacta tank > normal prep

Or, more realistically, week three will show that Pogi is the new Eddy Merckx who wins monuments left and right, both in the Ardennes and on the cobbles, sprints almost on par with the best sprinters, then goes on to win a couple of grand tours, and probably finishes off the season with the rainbows. Pogi is cut from the same cloth as Eddy, which is just incredible to see in 2024. Incredible as in simply not credible.

 

[ontheroad]

That Pog acceleration today on the Galibier at high altitude was vicious. I think all of the other riders bar Vingegaard now know that it’s pointless trying to match him when he attacks, otherwise they run the risk of blowing up completely. Their post race interviews both at the Giro and here suggest as much, they are content to just let him go.

The size of the gap created within 800 metres was very telling. The cycling media are doing their best to create a narrative that Vingegaard will get better as the race goes on to try and maintain interest but I think even at this early stage there is only one likely winner. UAE have come to the race this year with the secret sauce determined that they will not be beaten under any circumstances.

 

[snipeheem]

Funny thing is he look fresh after the stage. Uae create a monster

 

[pelotonIQ]

I think Pog will be in yellow until stage 19, but I expect a lot of magic in the last 3 stages from Visma. They just need to keep Pogacar within 2:30-3 minutes to have a chance to turn the odds in their favour. And Jonas will need to find his inner mutant as well.

What do you mean by magic? And what is the gameplan to turn the odds in their favor?

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Funny thing is he look fresh after the stage. Uae create a monster

That's because this he genuinely didn't dig very deep today.

The thing that makes Pogi entirely unbelievable and incredible - again, incredible as in not credible - is that he is good every single stage and every single race all of the time. And he's not just good, he's usually miles better than his nearest opponent.

A few seasons ago it was at least still somewhat believable. For example, in 2021 he snagged nine race victories (stages and one day races) in 60 race days plus four GC wins. That means that he won on about 15 percent of all his racedays. Okay, that means that he was very often very good, but there were still lots and lots of races that he didn't win.

Since then, this number has just kept rising. And it's still rising. 2022? 13 race victories in 54 race days for 24 percent win rate. 2023? 15 race victories in 49 race days for 31 percent. 2024 so far? 13 race victories in 35 race days for a ridiculous 37 percent. That's right. On more than a third of all Pogi's racedays in 2024, he has crossed the finish line first. He's been in the top three 18 times, so he's above 50 percent for podiums.

That's just laughable. How are we supposed to take this seriously? For reference, in his entire career as a pro he has 63 race victories (and 15 GC wins) in 303 race days for a stupid 21 percent win rate. And that's his entire career at UAE.

At some point serious media outlets have start asking serious questions, the only question for me is whether they will wait for him to hit a 70 percent win rate ...

 

[solo80k]

What do you mean by magic? And what is the gameplan to turn the odds in their favor?

The magic spell "Show the world you are the strongest." unlocked a real cycling miracle last year. I consider it the most impressive ITT since 92' Indurain.

Basically following the Visma's narrative, Jonas should be the strongest during the last week. So during stage 19 we should see thermonuclear Visma team rising from the ashes, who knows...

 

[meat puppet]

Media won't be asking any questions from anyone though. Riders have finally left the dark ages behind.

In retrospect it looks comical that in 2013-15 quite hi profile w/kg calculations were published and discussed daily in the cycling media to analyze the froome/quintana little league. Those guys were charged ofc but had nothing on the current post Covid generation.

Now there's not a peep in the media. So the old quip that things occur first as a tragedy, then as a farce very much applies.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Armstrong arguably (because I really do not want to restart the Ventoux finish debate) did not contest a stage finish with Basso and Pantani.

Although it also irked some people that he was seen as giving away stages, so there is no 100% right approach to being the dominant rider.

He also loved to give away the yellow jersey to French riders on small French teams.

 

[Rackham]

The magic spell "Show the world you are the strongest." unlocked a real cycling miracle last year. I consider it the most impressive ITT since 92' Indurain.

Basically following the Visma's narrative, Jonas should be the strongest during the last week. So during stage 19 we should see thermonuclear Visma team rising from the ashes, who knows...

I'm more interested to see how the others do. I think the rise of Pog & Vinge will absolutely create copycats & people should be ready for some surprises (maybe not this year but definitely in the near future).

I expect fans of both riders to be screaming 'dopage' in a couple of years when some neo-pro is demolishing these 'stars' on HC climbs.

It's an arms race. Every year things will get more & more whacky.

 

[pelotonIQ]

The magic spell "Show the world you are the strongest." unlocked a real cycling miracle last year. I consider it the most impressive ITT since 92' Indurain.

He will need a few of these miracles.

Basically following the Visma's narrative, Jonas should be the strongest during the last week. So during stage 19 we should see thermonuclear Visma team rising from the ashes, who knows...

Vinge will certainly improve but there is nothing thermonuclear about Visma. No Kuss and Wout looks weak. This looks similar to the 2022 TdF except its Vinge with the weaker team.

 

[Ripper]

I still don't understand the blind circle jerking that occurs in the road race forum about Todd. It's more than a little over the top.

The time trial could be incredibly out of this world.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I still don't understand the blind circle jerking that occurs in the road race forum about Todd. It's more than a little over the top.

The time trial could be incredibly out of this world.

Todd is a good boy that doesn't take shortcuts (according to his own words). That's why!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'm more interested to see how the others do. I think the rise of Pog & Vinge will absolutely create copycats & people should be ready for some surprises (maybe not this year but definitely in the near future).

I expect fans of both riders to be screaming 'dopage' in a couple of years when some neo-pro is demolishing these 'stars' on HC climbs.

It's an arms race. Every year things will get more & more whacky.

The problem for others is that this year they are going for the 4th consecutive top2 at the Tour (not done yet but it's likely) - their consistency at super-high level is top notch and they are far from being done it seems. Maybe Remco this year will get closer than anyone before but obviously he's an established huge talent, not some unknown neo-pro.

 

[zlev11]

I still don't understand the blind circle jerking that occurs in the road race forum about Todd. It's more than a little over the top.

The time trial could be incredibly out of this world.

the people over there are sick puppies. they absolutely love when a grand tour GC is over in the first 4 days, they cant get enough of it.

 

[velaso montador]

the people over there are sick puppies. they absolutely love when a grand tour GC is over in the first 4 days, they cant get enough of it.

People just appriciate greatness I guess. The best rider not only of our generation but for many atleast the best their ever seen and properly all time but nvm that would be wierd to not appriciate that if you love cycling thats just my guess no hehe. How wierd ppl like that.

Enjoy what life offers you is my tip

 

[zlev11]

People just appriciate greatness I guess. The best rider not only of our generation but for many atleast the best their ever seen and properly all time but nvm that would be wierd to not appriciate that if you love cycling thats just my guess no hehe. How wierd ppl like that.

Enjoy what life offers you is my tip

cant people just admit that they're fanboys? it's fine.

 

[Peyroteo94]

cant people just admit that they're fanboys? it's fine.

I'm a fanboy and still think he is doped to the gills. In fact, I don't believe in clean riders. Too many years watching cycling!

 

[Mex_17]

The only hope now is someone younger comes up with 10 times the doping that Pogocar is doing, so races can be competitive again. I'm actually surprised that Pog doesn't ride the Giro, TdF, and Vuelta every year. Does anyone doubt he would easily win all three, plus all the monuments?

At some point, this has to affect sponsorship, as why would anyone waste money sponsoring a team in race that Pogocar is in? You're already doomed to second place at best. Unless a better doper arrives, this could go on for 10 years.

I used to watch every TdF stage on replay. Now if it's a mountain or puncheur stage, I look to see if Pog won, and he almost always does if he wants to, so I skip it. I watch the sprint stages only, but I check to see if Pog won those too, because he could. It's just stupid at this point. Unless you're a Pog fan, who wants to watch cycling anymore?