Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Funny thing is he look fresh after the stage. Uae create a monster

That's because this he genuinely didn't dig very deep today.

The thing that makes Pogi entirely unbelievable and incredible - again, incredible as in not credible - is that he is good every single stage and every single race all of the time. And he's not just good, he's usually miles better than his nearest opponent.

A few seasons ago it was at least still somewhat believable. For example, in 2021 he snagged nine race victories (stages and one day races) in 60 race days plus four GC wins. That means that he won on about 15 percent of all his racedays. Okay, that means that he was very often very good, but there were still lots and lots of races that he didn't win.

Since then, this number has just kept rising. And it's still rising. 2022? 13 race victories in 54 race days for 24 percent win rate. 2023? 15 race victories in 49 race days for 31 percent. 2024 so far? 13 race victories in 35 race days for a ridiculous 37 percent. That's right. On more than a third of all Pogi's racedays in 2024, he has crossed the finish line first. He's been in the top three 18 times, so he's above 50 percent for podiums.

That's just laughable. How are we supposed to take this seriously? For reference, in his entire career as a pro he has 63 race victories (and 15 GC wins) in 303 race days for a stupid 21 percent win rate. And that's his entire career at UAE.

At some point serious media outlets have start asking serious questions, the only question for me is whether they will wait for him to hit a 70 percent win rate ...

 

[solo80k]

What do you mean by magic? And what is the gameplan to turn the odds in their favor?

The magic spell "Show the world you are the strongest." unlocked a real cycling miracle last year. I consider it the most impressive ITT since 92' Indurain.

Basically following the Visma's narrative, Jonas should be the strongest during the last week. So during stage 19 we should see thermonuclear Visma team rising from the ashes, who knows...

 

[meat puppet]

Media won't be asking any questions from anyone though. Riders have finally left the dark ages behind.

In retrospect it looks comical that in 2013-15 quite hi profile w/kg calculations were published and discussed daily in the cycling media to analyze the froome/quintana little league. Those guys were charged ofc but had nothing on the current post Covid generation.

Now there's not a peep in the media. So the old quip that things occur first as a tragedy, then as a farce very much applies.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Armstrong arguably (because I really do not want to restart the Ventoux finish debate) did not contest a stage finish with Basso and Pantani.

Although it also irked some people that he was seen as giving away stages, so there is no 100% right approach to being the dominant rider.

He also loved to give away the yellow jersey to French riders on small French teams.

 

[Rackham]

The magic spell "Show the world you are the strongest." unlocked a real cycling miracle last year. I consider it the most impressive ITT since 92' Indurain.

Basically following the Visma's narrative, Jonas should be the strongest during the last week. So during stage 19 we should see thermonuclear Visma team rising from the ashes, who knows...

I'm more interested to see how the others do. I think the rise of Pog & Vinge will absolutely create copycats & people should be ready for some surprises (maybe not this year but definitely in the near future).

I expect fans of both riders to be screaming 'dopage' in a couple of years when some neo-pro is demolishing these 'stars' on HC climbs.

It's an arms race. Every year things will get more & more whacky.

 

[pelotonIQ]

The magic spell "Show the world you are the strongest." unlocked a real cycling miracle last year. I consider it the most impressive ITT since 92' Indurain.

He will need a few of these miracles.

Basically following the Visma's narrative, Jonas should be the strongest during the last week. So during stage 19 we should see thermonuclear Visma team rising from the ashes, who knows...

Vinge will certainly improve but there is nothing thermonuclear about Visma. No Kuss and Wout looks weak. This looks similar to the 2022 TdF except its Vinge with the weaker team.

 

[Ripper]

I still don't understand the blind circle jerking that occurs in the road race forum about Todd. It's more than a little over the top.

The time trial could be incredibly out of this world.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I still don't understand the blind circle jerking that occurs in the road race forum about Todd. It's more than a little over the top.

The time trial could be incredibly out of this world.

Todd is a good boy that doesn't take shortcuts (according to his own words). That's why!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'm more interested to see how the others do. I think the rise of Pog & Vinge will absolutely create copycats & people should be ready for some surprises (maybe not this year but definitely in the near future).

I expect fans of both riders to be screaming 'dopage' in a couple of years when some neo-pro is demolishing these 'stars' on HC climbs.

It's an arms race. Every year things will get more & more whacky.

The problem for others is that this year they are going for the 4th consecutive top2 at the Tour (not done yet but it's likely) - their consistency at super-high level is top notch and they are far from being done it seems. Maybe Remco this year will get closer than anyone before but obviously he's an established huge talent, not some unknown neo-pro.

 

[zlev11]

I still don't understand the blind circle jerking that occurs in the road race forum about Todd. It's more than a little over the top.

The time trial could be incredibly out of this world.

the people over there are sick puppies. they absolutely love when a grand tour GC is over in the first 4 days, they cant get enough of it.

 

[velaso montador]

the people over there are sick puppies. they absolutely love when a grand tour GC is over in the first 4 days, they cant get enough of it.

People just appriciate greatness I guess. The best rider not only of our generation but for many atleast the best their ever seen and properly all time but nvm that would be wierd to not appriciate that if you love cycling thats just my guess no hehe. How wierd ppl like that.

Enjoy what life offers you is my tip

 

[zlev11]

People just appriciate greatness I guess. The best rider not only of our generation but for many atleast the best their ever seen and properly all time but nvm that would be wierd to not appriciate that if you love cycling thats just my guess no hehe. How wierd ppl like that.

Enjoy what life offers you is my tip

cant people just admit that they're fanboys? it's fine.

 

[Peyroteo94]

cant people just admit that they're fanboys? it's fine.

I'm a fanboy and still think he is doped to the gills. In fact, I don't believe in clean riders. Too many years watching cycling!

 

[Mex_17]

The only hope now is someone younger comes up with 10 times the doping that Pogocar is doing, so races can be competitive again. I'm actually surprised that Pog doesn't ride the Giro, TdF, and Vuelta every year. Does anyone doubt he would easily win all three, plus all the monuments?

At some point, this has to affect sponsorship, as why would anyone waste money sponsoring a team in race that Pogocar is in? You're already doomed to second place at best. Unless a better doper arrives, this could go on for 10 years.

I used to watch every TdF stage on replay. Now if it's a mountain or puncheur stage, I look to see if Pog won, and he almost always does if he wants to, so I skip it. I watch the sprint stages only, but I check to see if Pog won those too, because he could. It's just stupid at this point. Unless you're a Pog fan, who wants to watch cycling anymore?

 

[jono]

The only hope now is someone younger comes up with 10 times the doping that Pogocar is doing, so races can be competitive again. I'm actually surprised that Pog doesn't ride the Giro, TdF, and Vuelta every year. Does anyone doubt he would easily win all three, plus all the monuments?

At some point, this has to affect sponsorship, as why would anyone waste money sponsoring a team in race that Pogocar is in? You're already doomed to second place at best. Unless a better doper arrives, this could go on for 10 years.

I used to watch every TdF stage on replay. Now if it's a mountain or puncheur stage, I look to see if Pog won, and he almost always does if he wants to, so I skip it. I watch the sprint stages only, but I check to see if Pog won those too, because he could. It's just stupid at this point. Unless you're a Pog fan, who wants to watch cycling anymore?

Imagine writing this post in 2022 or 2023.

 

[CleanCiclismo]

The only hope now is someone younger comes up with 10 times the doping that Pogocar is doing, so races can be competitive again. I'm actually surprised that Pog doesn't ride the Giro, TdF, and Vuelta every year. Does anyone doubt he would easily win all three, plus all the monuments?

At some point, this has to affect sponsorship, as why would anyone waste money sponsoring a team in race that Pogocar is in? You're already doomed to second place at best. Unless a better doper arrives, this could go on for 10 years.

I used to watch every TdF stage on replay. Now if it's a mountain or puncheur stage, I look to see if Pog won, and he almost always does if he wants to, so I skip it. I watch the sprint stages only, but I check to see if Pog won those too, because he could. It's just stupid at this point. Unless you're a Pog fan, who wants to watch cycling anymore?

You must love F1.

 

[Peanut1970]

The only hope now is someone younger comes up with 10 times the doping that Pogocar is doing, so races can be competitive again. I'm actually surprised that Pog doesn't ride the Giro, TdF, and Vuelta every year. Does anyone doubt he would easily win all three, plus all the monuments?

At some point, this has to affect sponsorship, as why would anyone waste money sponsoring a team in race that Pogocar is in? You're already doomed to second place at best. Unless a better doper arrives, this could go on for 10 years.

I used to watch every TdF stage on replay. Now if it's a mountain or puncheur stage, I look to see if Pog won, and he almost always does if he wants to, so I skip it. I watch the sprint stages only, but I check to see if Pog won those too, because he could. It's just stupid at this point. Unless you're a Pog fan, who wants to watch cycling anymore?

Just turn over to downhill MTB, that's competition.

 

[shadowrider]

The problem for others is that this year they are going for the 4th consecutive top2 at the Tour (not done yet but it's likely) - their consistency at super-high level is top notch and they are far from being done it seems. Maybe Remco this year will get closer than anyone before but obviously he's an established huge talent, not some unknown neo-pro.

I find Evenepoel's past and present performances much more credible than those of Pogacar and Vingegaard. As a junior, Evenepoel was slightly better and
more talented than Pogacar (but not having the same age, they didn't compete against each other), while Vingegaard was out of the question at that age. As a joung pro, Evenepoel showed strong performances. But he was never really superior in climbing and regularly suffered smaller weaknesses and a major breakdown. Pogacar was twice beaten by Vingegaard. In the Tour 22 he panicked due to the monstruous strong team of Jumbo. In 23 Pogacar was not at his best after his Liège crash and wrist fracture. But a Pogacar in great form (having the strongest team) is unapproachable. And what about Vingegaard ? Untouchable those last two years in the Tour. This time, after a desastrous crash, terrible injuries, two weeks hospital, recovery, far too little training, now able to almost stay in the wheel of Pogacar uphill. Either I don't know anything about cycling and top sports in general, or he uses a special (undetectable) sauce. Probably the same as Poga.

 

[GuntherL1]

I find Evenepoel's past and present performances much more credible than those of Pogacar and Vingegaard. As a junior, Evenepoel was slightly better and
more talented than Pogacar (but not having the same age, they didn't compete against each other), while Vingegaard was out of the question at that age. As a joung pro, Evenepoel showed strong performances. But he was never really superior in climbing and regularly suffered smaller weaknesses and a major breakdown. Pogacar was twice beaten by Vingegaard. In the Tour 22 he panicked due to the monstruous strong team of Jumbo. In 23 Pogacar was not at his best after his Liège crash and wrist fracture. But a Pogacar in great form (having the strongest team) is unapproachable. And what about Vingegaard ? Untouchable those last two years in the Tour. This time, after a desastrous crash, terrible injuries, two weeks hospital, recovery, far too little training, now able to almost stay in the wheel of Pogacar uphill. Either I don't know anything about cycling and top sports in general, or he uses a special (undetectable) sauce. Probably the same as Poga.

Slightly better? Evenepoel crushed everyone in his junior years, Pogacar only won the Giro di Lunigiana against a bunch of riders nobody remembers.

I agree that Vingegaards TdF performances are very suspicious as well, but at least he doesn't crush every one day race.

 

[Ripper]

My guess is that was about where many thought he would end up? A bit behind Remco, and bit ahead of Voldi. So much for "the new bike will be 40 seconds faster" rubbish (superteams are so full of shyte, are they not?)

Now we will need to see what the pattern is. Does he get stronger because he is the amazing Pogi with amazing recovery, the Giro was easy, etc.? Or does he plateau or decline because, well, he still raced a Giro and timing a 3rd week peak from that process is more than tricky.

Never underestimate the power of drugs, I mean medications, friends!

 

[Apolitical]

Slightly better? Evenepoel crushed everyone in his junior years, Pogacar only won the Giro di Lunigiana against a bunch of riders nobody remembers.

I agree that Vingegaards TdF performances are very suspicious as well, but at least he doesn't crush every one day race.

Pogy has been riding away from everyone all year. Attacking where no one can sit on his wheel. Then blowing by the breakaway riders, and finally going into cruise control to win over the contenders by 2-3 minutes. These other riders along with their teams shouldn't be that bad every day and reace that they're losing multiple minutes. He makes it look easy.

Keep in mind Vingo's wins over Pog at the TDFs were from Pogs really bad days. So bad he actually had to ride behind teammates. Not that Vingo in not under suspicion, just he appears more consistent over 3 weeks.

Pogy also has 3 riders, Ayuso, Jaoa, & Yates on his team that really stepped up this year too. Previously I would put them at a level with GT riders like Hindley, Geoganhart, Kuss, Mas, Rodriguez, Nairo, & Carapaz (the latter two are getting old, I know). Top riders that need a everything to go perfect and a lot of luck. Now it looks like they're better than all these riders. And, whoever else I forgot on the list.

 

[GuntherL1]

It's good to see that Tadej was taking it easy today after riding the Giro. Oh wait...

 

[Ripper]

Pogy has been riding away from everyone all year. Attacking where no one can sit on his wheel. Then blowing by the breakaway riders, and finally going into cruise control to win over the contenders by 2-3 minutes. These other riders along with their teams shouldn't be that bad every day and reace that they're losing multiple minutes. He makes it look easy.

Keep in mind Vingo's wins over Pog at the TDFs were from Pogs really bad days. So bad he actually had to ride behind teammates. Not that Vingo in not under suspicion, just he appears more consistent over 3 weeks.

Pogy also has 3 riders, Ayuso, Jaoa, & Yates on his team that really stepped up this year too. Previously I would put them at a level with GT riders like Hindley, Geoganhart, Kuss, Mas, Rodriguez, Nairo, & Carapaz (the latter two are getting old, I know). Top riders that need a everything to go perfect and a lot of luck. Now it looks like they're better than all these riders. And, whoever else I forgot on the list.

Yup. Teams and racers can target a race or one stage but if Toddly wants it, even if it's not a major target, watch out!

Attacking like a psycho killer today! Impressive. It would be hilarious if I was actually on his wheel when he attacks, just so I could see warp drive engage first hand.

Honestly, not only does Vigomort need to improve, but Toddly will need to get worse if he is to lose

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yup. Teams and racers can target a race or one stage but if Toddly wants it, even if it's not a major target, watch out!

Attacking like a psycho killer today! Impressive. It would be hilarious if I was actually on his wheel when he attacks, just so I could see warp drive engage first hand.

Honestly, not only does Vigomort need to improve, but Toddly will need to get worse if he is to lose

Teddy is a good boy who just loves racing against his best friends! (especially Vinnie). Comparison to a psycho killer won't make this forum a better place.

 

[Ripper]

Teddy is a good boy who just loves racing against his best friends! (especially Vinnie). Comparison to a psycho killer won't make this forum a better place.

That song should be his theme song