Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Forever The Best]

In two minds about the Giro and greediness. If he is clean then it is a completely fine and acceptable thing to do, go ahead and win as many stages as you want, if they can't beat you then that's their problem. If he is doping then it is unbelievably foolish.

There is a misunderstanding floating around about 'gifting' or letting stages go I think, derived from the Contador/Tiralongo dynamic, which is a pretty rare occurrence in cycling, but it isn't quite accurate. The subtext around the discourse of letting the smaller teams and lesser riders have their day isn't about making friends, it's about not making enemies, whether tomorrow on the road or in ten years when you're sat in front of a Grand Jury. Sky understood this and learnt the lessons from Armstrong, win your big race then *** off. Don't draw unwanted attention to yourself.

I think Gianetti has lost the plot personally, seen Jumbo going for it and decided it's open season, dialectical doping. But I could always be wrong and they've found some legal wonder drug that makes him look like he's racing against infants.

Froome won Vuelta after winning Tour. Then next year did a Landis to win Giro. Armstrong didn't even attempt to win those two races in his domination period.

 

[Peyroteo94]

We are going to spend a long time in this thread during the next 3 weeks. Go Tadej! Show us madness!

 

[Tim Cahill]

Froome won Vuelta after winning Tour. Then next year did a Landis to win Giro. Armstrong didn't even attempt to win those two races in his domination period.

I suppose, but within those races he wasn't particularly dominant, 0 stages in the tour, 2 in the Vuelta, 2 in the Giro. The other riders were getting a shot at glory is what I was trying to say, and their PR strategy at least attempted to deviate from Armstrong's ultra combative approach, which managed to irritate the wrong journalists, and his attitudes towards other riders, which would come back to screw him down the line, though Sky were insipid it was in a different way.

Finestere was his last win I think? People were saying he would've pulled it together in 2019 but looking back I have my doubts.

 

[Forever The Best]

I suppose, but within those races he wasn't particularly dominant, 0 stages in the tour, 2 in the Vuelta, 2 in the Giro. The other riders were getting a shot at glory is what I was trying to say, and their PR strategy at least attempted to deviate from Armstrong's ultra combative approach, which managed to irritate the wrong journalists, and his attitudes towards other riders, which would come back to screw him down the line, though Sky were insipid it was in a different way.

Finestere was his last win I think? People were saying he would've pulled it together in 2019 but looking back I have my doubts.

Yeah in race and PR I agree. They learned their lesson from Armstrong.

Though worth noting that Armstrong won what, only 1 stage in' 05 and '03? But '04 was ridiculous he won like 5 stages in the back end of the race. '99, '01, '02 he won a bunch too. Funnily enough he only won the final TT in '00.
Froome won 3 in '13, 1 in '15, 2 in '16.

I think Froome could have won 2019 if he didn't crash. We may have seen a Sky 1-2-3. Field was pretty weak of those who finished, Roglic wasn't there and Pinot abandoned.

 

[roundabout]

Armstrong arguably (because I really do not want to restart the Ventoux finish debate) did not contest a stage finish with Basso and Pantani.

Although it also irked some people that he was seen as giving away stages, so there is no 100% right approach to being the dominant rider.

 

[meat puppet]

Pogi foolishly thought 8,3w/kg would be enough.

Mou was brave in this world but there are others.

 

[solo80k]

Pogi foolishly thought 8,3w/kg would be enough.

Mou was brave in this world but there are others.

The Tour will be won by minutes, not seconds. - I think it's the key.

JV is probably preparing 1-2 stages with big blood bags and other enhancers. They have very strong "base" and daily "routine", but 2 stages will make a huge difference. If I'm to choose - Plateau de Beille stage 15 + one another stage (19-20-21). Pog and Jonas will be very equal during the rest of the race. And maybe Pog will be able to make some minor damage mid-race, but the final showdown will be devastating for UAE.

 

[meat puppet]

The Tour will be won by minutes, not seconds. - I think it's the key.

JV is probably preparing 1-2 stages with big blood bags and other enhancers. They have very strong "base" and daily "routine", but 2 stages will make a huge difference. If I'm to choose - Plateau de Beille stage 15 + one another stage (19-20-21). Pog and Jonas will be very equal during the rest of the race. And maybe Pog will be able to make some minor damage mid-race, but the final showdown will be devastating for UAE.

This may turn out to be correct. Still, Vinge might lack the base riding and just implode. On the other hand, I sure didn't expect him to follow Pogo in his territory.

My post was merely an excuse to bake in a quote by Hawk from twin peaks.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

In May Vingo was tired after short rides while Pogi was crushing Giro rivals but Visma-LAB caught up with the competition quickly! The arms race is on, what will Teddy, Mauro and co do now against their kryptonite?

 

[Ripper]

Lolz!

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Here we go, Pogi is well on his way to matching Pantani. Watch him win the Vuelta, the Olympics, and the Worlds as well, and naïve casuals will clap their hands and laud him. This guy is entering Eddy Merckx-territory. And that's not a good thing. That's a decidedly terrible sign for the credibility of this sport. 78 wins at 25, just laughable.

 

[Luthor]

Lmao, only fools can still believe the dude is clean. He destroyed Galibier's record by 1:30 and then rode insanely on the descent, pushing continuously, no fatigue in sight. That after a full Giro.

 

[burning]

I am not following cycling as much as I used to do, but is anyone here claiming that Pogacar and Vingegaard are not on jet fuel? Tbh, Vingegaard is even more freakish to me considering his crash a few months earlier.

 

[solo80k]

Lmao, only fools can still believe the dude is clean. He destroyed Galibier's record by 1:30 and then rode insanely on the descent, pushing continuously, no fatigue in sight. That after a full Giro.

Do we really have a second climbing record this Tour? If so, I'm forgetting about doping accusations.... until tomorrow. 😍

 

[ppanther92]

Lmao, only fools can still believe the dude is clean. He destroyed Galibier's record by 1:30 and then rode insanely on the descent, pushing continuously, no fatigue in sight. That after a full Giro.

Vingegaard was 7s slower right out of ICU

No, but seriously. Ofc this peloton is not clean. Just came here in this part of the forum after listening to Ullrich and Eisel on Eurosport saying "this generation has nothing to do with "their" times". After being a cycling fan for over 20 years now, I am not that naive. But guess they also have to say that. Ullrich finally getting back on the scene and public media, Eisel still involved in the sport as director.

 

[Froome]

Vingegaard was 7s slower right out of ICU

No, but seriously. Ofc this peloton is not clean. Just came here in this part of the forum after listening to Ullrich and Eisel on Eurosport saying "this generation has nothing to do with "their" times". After being a cycling fan for over 20 years now, I am not that naive. But guess they also have to say that. Ullrich finally getting back on the scene and public media, Eisel still involved in the sport as director.

Obviously the peloton is not clean, and the top riders are taking serious things, but today it wasn't something ridiculous.

 

[pelotonIQ]

The Tour will be won by minutes, not seconds. - I think it's the key.

JV is probably preparing 1-2 stages with big blood bags and other enhancers. They have very strong "base" and daily "routine", but 2 stages will make a huge difference. If I'm to choose - Plateau de Beille stage 15 + one another stage (19-20-21). Pog and Jonas will be very equal during the rest of the race. And maybe Pog will be able to make some minor damage mid-race, but the final showdown will be devastating for UAE.

You're fantasizing from previous years. This tour the Visma domestiques are not even close to UAE strength, they will never be able to isolate Pogacar.

 

[solo80k]

You're fantasizing from previous years. This tour the Visma domestiques are not even close to UAE strength, they will never be able to isolate Pogacar.

I think Pog will be in yellow until stage 19, but I expect a lot of magic in the last 3 stages from Visma. They just need to keep Pogacar within 2:30-3 minutes to have a chance to turn the odds in their favour. And Jonas will need to find his inner mutant as well.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Vingegaard was 7s slower right out of ICU

No, but seriously. Ofc this peloton is not clean. Just came here in this part of the forum after listening to Ullrich and Eisel on Eurosport saying "this generation has nothing to do with "their" times". After being a cycling fan for over 20 years now, I am not that naive. But guess they also have to say that. Ullrich finally getting back on the scene and public media, Eisel still involved in the sport as director.

1:30 faster than a Quintana who was in the break all day long on a much harder stage, later in the Tour, with 40°C in the valley at the start. IMO the gap is underrated. That said, the Purito speacial at the top of the climb was radioactive.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think Pog will be in yellow until stage 19, but I expect a lot of magic in the last 3 stages from Visma. They just need to keep Pogacar within 2:30-3 minutes to have a chance to turn the odds in their favour. And Jonas will need to find his inner mutant as well.

This scenario (JV smashing the last weekend vs weakening Pogacar at the end of his double GT campaign) would be more realistic if Vingo had had a normal preparation.

 

[meat puppet]

Week three will show that also training methods evolve: two months in a bacta tank > normal prep

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Week three will show that also training methods evolve: two months in a bacta tank > normal prep

Or, more realistically, week three will show that Pogi is the new Eddy Merckx who wins monuments left and right, both in the Ardennes and on the cobbles, sprints almost on par with the best sprinters, then goes on to win a couple of grand tours, and probably finishes off the season with the rainbows. Pogi is cut from the same cloth as Eddy, which is just incredible to see in 2024. Incredible as in simply not credible.

 

[ontheroad]

That Pog acceleration today on the Galibier at high altitude was vicious. I think all of the other riders bar Vingegaard now know that it’s pointless trying to match him when he attacks, otherwise they run the risk of blowing up completely. Their post race interviews both at the Giro and here suggest as much, they are content to just let him go.

The size of the gap created within 800 metres was very telling. The cycling media are doing their best to create a narrative that Vingegaard will get better as the race goes on to try and maintain interest but I think even at this early stage there is only one likely winner. UAE have come to the race this year with the secret sauce determined that they will not be beaten under any circumstances.

 

[snipeheem]

Funny thing is he look fresh after the stage. Uae create a monster

 

[pelotonIQ]

I think Pog will be in yellow until stage 19, but I expect a lot of magic in the last 3 stages from Visma. They just need to keep Pogacar within 2:30-3 minutes to have a chance to turn the odds in their favour. And Jonas will need to find his inner mutant as well.

What do you mean by magic? And what is the gameplan to turn the odds in their favor?